God Does Not Predestinate Any Particular Person To Be Saved Or Lost

[Israel]

Actually, the moment we open our mouths in any form of teaching, reproval, correction, or even what we may think is the most pure and honest representation of the the Christ, (who is) the truth, (who is) the very Word of God we have entered that place undeniable and reserved to those as described here:

Many teachers become not, my brethren, having known that greater judgment we shall receive, (YLT)

or

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. (KJV)

No doubt.

A stricter holding to, and attention paid of judgment is to those who enter there.

God forbid this be taken as anything other than what it is...be prepared to have our words and selves judged. Even the more stricter.

And you are entirely correct in that I am not your judge; but that we both (and/or all who make offering of instruction or would even correct another) are judged of God. And even in a more particular manner than those who do not do so.

And each man to his calling and gifts as the apostle Peter reminds us:

If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

And also Paul wrote:

Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

I am happy to hear you have had this experience of God's assurance to you:

God show me at one time in my life if I would use His Word of truth that it would stand.

As I am happy for those others to whom God has given likewise assurance; whose rebuke and correction I have also experienced as from Him. And no less, instruction.

There's a reminder of great comfort that is plainly manifest of One who so easily sees through me. Even if there be found any resistance at the first to it. Just how plain and common a man I am, and but for the grace of God...lost in myself.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Why would man have never been created if Lucifer had remained true to God?

quote' "If Lucifer and many other spirit beings had remained true to God, there would have been no universal curse on the Earth and no need for re-creation of the atmospheric heavens and the Earth and life on the planet Earth, as recorded Gen. 1:3-2:25. In that case man and the present animals on the Earth would never have been created."

I think I've answered my own question as it relates to the LDS beliefs. If Lucifer had never rebelled, man would not have needed to come to the earth nor any other planet for that matter.
There would have been no need for our spirits to become human. To start with, Christ would never have needed to become human. Because there was never any sin in all the Creation until Lucifer rebelled.
The earth was created because of Lucifer's sin.

 

[Madman]

quote' "If Lucifer and many other spirit beings had remained true to God, there would have been no universal curse on the Earth and no need for re-creation of the atmospheric heavens and the Earth and life on the planet Earth, as recorded Gen. 1:3-2:25. In that case man and the present animals on the Earth would never have been created."

I think I've answered my own question as it relates to the LDS beliefs. If Lucifer had never rebelled, man would not have needed to come to the earth nor any other planet for that matter.
There would have been no need for our spirits to become human. To start with, Christ would never have needed to become human. Because there was never any sin in all the Creation until Lucifer rebelled.
The earth was created because of Lucifer's sin.

I have learned, if there exists an idea that is new, then it is most likely new because it is incorrect.

Begin at the beginning. Why did God create angels? Why did he create the earth? Angels don’t need the earth? Why did he create light? Angels don’t need light.

By your logic God created angels and they fell, so he created man. But man fell, did God give up? Why not create a being that would not/ could not fall?

 

[gordon 2]

I have learned, if there exists an idea that is new, then it is most likely new because it is incorrect.

Begin at the beginning. Why did God create angels? Why did he create the earth? Angels don’t need the earth? Why did he create light? Angels don’t need light.

By your logic God created angels and they fell, so he created man. But man fell, did God give up? Why not create a being that would not/ could not fall?

Right. And why is the Parable of the Talents applicable to people of faith? Maybe "salvation" is conditional after all, as opposed to a one time unconditional done deal. Maybe this "your in or your out" Christianity and No-Christianity ( you can't be in to begin with) is not what Christianity ever was meant to entertain? Maybe this whole predestination as a universal all times thing is a misapplication of a specific thing meant for one time only by the scripture writer? How can we be sure that we who think of our selves as feeding on solid spiritual foods are yet babes to milk? Like the Churches in Revelations God has a bone to pick with us also. That is we are stuck in our faith adolescence unable or unwilling to move forward to being a well rounded fully formed man?

 

[Israel]

I have learned, if there exists an idea that is new, then it is most likely new because it is incorrect.

Begin at the beginning. Why did God create angels? Why did he create the earth? Angels don’t need the earth? Why did he create light? Angels don’t need light.

By your logic God created angels and they fell, so he created man. But man fell, did God give up? Why not create a being that would not/ could not fall?

Why not create a being that would not/ could not fall?

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Any question as to "why didn't God?" that may be of unsettling to us, even provocation to us can only be answered according to that provocation allowed its perfect work...to bring us to God alone for answer.

And happy is the man to whom God does not withhold answer...even if, or when in the light of His response with what He has done our first question of "why didn't you?" is made to us shown of all the folly that a man might be.

 

[BanjoPicker]

quote' "If Lucifer and many other spirit beings had remained true to God, there would have been no universal curse on the Earth and no need for re-creation of the atmospheric heavens and the Earth and life on the planet Earth, as recorded Gen. 1:3-2:25. In that case man and the present animals on the Earth would never have been created."

I think I've answered my own question as it relates to the LDS beliefs. If Lucifer had never rebelled, man would not have needed to come to the earth nor any other planet for that matter.
There would have been no need for our spirits to become human. To start with, Christ would never have needed to become human. Because there was never any sin in all the Creation until Lucifer rebelled.
The earth was created because of Lucifer's sin.

You are correct praise Jesus ! Except the Earth was already made for he ruled it and then it was flooded the first time because of his sin, then it was restored back prefect again as of the six days.

 

[BanjoPicker]

And happy is the man to whom God does not withhold answer...even if, or when in the light of His response with what He has done our first question of "why didn't you?" is made to us shown of all the folly that a man might be.

Deut. 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Meaning The things that are not revealed belong to God and we are not to know them as yet; but the revealed things of Scripture belong to men forever, that they MAY KNOW AND DO THE WILL OF GOD (v 29).

 

[Madman]

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Any question as to "why didn't God?" that may be of unsettling to us, even provocation to us can only be answered according to that provocation allowed its perfect work...to bring us to God alone for answer.

And happy is the man to whom God does not withhold answer...even if, or when in the light of His response with what He has done our first question of "why didn't you?" is made to us shown of all the folly that a man might be.

I have found nothing "Unsettling" about God.

 

[Israel]

Deut. 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Meaning The things that are not revealed belong to God and we are not to know them as yet; but the revealed things of Scripture belong to men forever, that they MAY KNOW AND DO THE WILL OF GOD (v 29).

And the scripture has revealed to you the situation/circumstance in which God had another matter of exercise in mind regarding the creation He ordained for its fulfilling in Christ?

In that case man and the present animals on the Earth would never have been created.

Really?


Keep arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times.

Some unsettling is approaching.

All for the glory of the Lord's name and His good pleasure.

 

[Israel]

I have found nothing "Unsettling" about God.

Which is nothing more than a response to nothing even remotely stated.

Any question as to "why didn't God?" that may be of unsettling to us, even provocation to us can only be answered according to that provocation allowed its perfect work...to bring us to God alone for answer.

 

[Madman]

Which is nothing more than a response to nothing even remotely stated.

Then please explain to this simpleton what you meant by “Any question as to "why didn't God?" that may be of unsettling to us,”

I am a mindless engineer that works in bullet points and numbers, I have neither the time nor the inclination to decipher continual, ad-nauseam posts. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

When you say something,”is unsettling “ I, foolishly take it at face value.

 

[Madman]

I made no contention that any unsettlement is either in God or God is in any way...unsettled.

I did not claim you did, I said "I have found nothing "Unsettling" about God.

If I did not speak plainly enough I apologize, allow me to correct my mistake.

In my brief life, I have yet to see or learn anything about God that unsettles me. He is perfect, he is I AM.

 

[BanjoPicker]

God said that He creates evil and the wicked for the day of evil. He does this for Himself. He does this to show His wrath, to display His power, and to make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory.


No, it is that way because God is displaying His power.

Free choice? Look here:
"He turned their heart to hate His people, To deal craftily with His servants."

And later we see that He did this to show His power, that He would get all the glory.

So here you are saying that God started sin and created sin to show his power and glory, show me where in Scripture that it says God started sin and created sin for his power and glory.

 

[gemcgrew]

So here you are saying that God started sin and created sin to show his power and glory, show me where in Scripture that it says God started sin and created sin for his power and glory.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

 

[Madman]

For most, moral evil is what comes to mind when this passage is read. God does not have the ability to create moral evil.

He is rewarding his chosen who walk in his statutes, and allowing disaster to strike those who intentionally rebel against him.

 

[BanjoPicker]

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Everything was made perfect and good without sin He did not predestine Lucifer to sin nor did he predestine Adam to sin as I said he did not create sin nor start sin.

 

[BanjoPicker]

The "all things" includes the spirit of deception.

God's will determines what is allowed, permitted, caused.

And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Satan is a creature without free will.

That you made that jump says nothing about what I indicate.

If Satan was not an angel of free will to have fallen to started sin then your saying that God started sin, when you sin does God make you do it or do you do it because you are a free moral agent or were you predestine to sin and to go to heaven no matter how you live because your predestine..

 

[Israel]

It is as if some have a god suspended under a moral code by its superiority over him to which he must adhere.

And no less, to which man must find agreeable to his sensibilities of righteousness.

 

[BanjoPicker]

It is as if some have a god suspended under a moral code by its superiority over him to which he must adhere.

And no less, to which man must find agreeable to his sensibilities of righteousness.

My God is obligated to keep His Word and promises to them that believe and keep His Word.

 

[Israel]

Only God is free...to keep His word.

The gospel is about one man...only.

But it's not beyond God's mercy to suffer what wants to make it about the self. For even that works to reveal what Christ has done with the self that would make itself center of all creation...by allowing it revealed to its unbearable-ness. Its inability.

This is good of God to let a man know.

"For we can do nothing against the truth...but for it."