God Does Not Predestinate Any Particular Person To Be Saved Or Lost

[The Original Rooster]

1st Timothy 2:3,4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2nd Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

I believe the Lord wants all to be saved but knows that all won't and will even use those that aren't to save others. Trying to contemplate God's ways and plans is beyond our understanding and is often used by the devil to cause us to question our faith. Ultimately it can lead to us questioning why a loving God can allow evil to occur. It's simply beyond our understanding and we should leave it as such.

 

[gemcgrew]

1st Timothy 2:3,4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2nd Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

I believe the Lord wants all to be saved but knows that all won't and will even use those that aren't to save others. Trying to contemplate God's ways and plans is beyond our understanding and is often used by the devil to cause us to question our faith. Ultimately it can lead to us questioning why a loving God can allow evil to occur. It's simply beyond our understanding and we should leave it as such.

These are the people referred to in the above verses, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins".

That which is revealed is understood.

But it is definitely not for everybody.

 

[Spotlite]

1st Timothy 2:3,4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2nd Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

I believe the Lord wants all to be saved but knows that all won't and will even use those that aren't to save others. Trying to contemplate God's ways and plans is beyond our understanding and is often used by the devil to cause us to question our faith. Ultimately it can lead to us questioning why a loving God can allow evil to occur. It's simply beyond our understanding and we should leave it as such.

Yup, it’s for whosever will.

The John Calvin doctrine ignores scripture. Chosen before the foundation of the earth is true, so is rejection as some men do. Predestined is Bible, but not in the context preached here. Selective atonement isn’t Bible.

“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

If those that reject Him are going to be judged by the Word, then His Word applies to them, too, and not just the “cherry picked elect”.

Every knee will bow, and every tongue will eventually confess.

 

[The Original Rooster]

Yup, it’s for whosever will.

The John Calvin doctrine ignores scripture. Chosen before the foundation of the earth is true, so is rejection as some men do. Predestined is Bible, but not in the context preached here. Selective atonement isn’t Bible.

“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

If those that reject Him are going to be judged by the Word, then His Word applies to them, too, and not just the “cherry picked elect”.

Every knee will bow, and every tongue will eventually confess.

Yes, it's true that the pot doesn't question the potter. Trying to contemplate the power of God and reconcile his knowledge, ability of creation, his pre-knowledge before creation, and all that was or will ever be, and finally his plans are beyond us.
God may tell us that he knows what we will choose before we ever even think of deciding or were ever created but he also tells us that his desire is that we will come to him. It's mind boggling trying to contemplate his power and all the more reason we shouldn't question him but instead focus on him and his instruction to us.

 

[Nicodemus]

These are the people referred to in the above verses, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins".

That which is revealed is understood.

But it is definitely not for everybody.

You better hope arrogance won't keep you out of The Promised Land.

 

[Israel]

Yes, it's true that the pot doesn't question the potter. Trying to contemplate the power of God and reconcile his knowledge, ability of creation, his pre-knowledge before creation, and all that was or will ever be, and finally his plans are beyond us.
God may tell us that he knows what we will choose before we ever even think of deciding or were ever created but he also tells us that his desire is that we will come to him. It's mind boggling trying to contemplate his power and all the more reason we shouldn't question him but instead focus on him and his instruction to us.

Misapplication.

You do understand the Lord speaks many things to disciples...not the least of which is repeated often: Ask...seek...knock...

The potter being questioned by the clay as to "why then did you make me thus?" is the one who does not recognize his need of mercy, instead responding (rather than with gratitude) "since you made me like this, what right do you have to judge me?" (Why then does he still find fault?)

We do not preach that...we preach God has all right to judge all men because HE IS GOD. It is His prerogative ALONE to judge all men as He chooses to. He is God.

The man accepting of this sees the need for mercy and may find it in Christ, and so is said "happy is the man whose sins are forgiven, to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity".

Do not misunderstand that a great deal of that joy is owed to having a faithful Father through Christ that does not find any questioning by His own odious, or off limits even...He is able to respond if one is in need of correction for presumption.

It would be terrible to presume the God that says "Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not."...is lying.

Or that Jesus tells His disciples

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

yes, God does not exempt the "mind" in its being devoted to the love of Him, nor does He withhold understanding from those who meet the many questions there in their walking with him.


Yes, by all means read the scriptures, see the things shown to Paul of resolution of matters that to him were provoking of seeking...

"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

Do you think Paul did not have some wonder as to the goodness of God he had been shown in the mercy of Christ to him to consider..."why then does God tolerate the continual evil doer?"

Paul saw it...God's patience! So that even the vessels of mercy suffering under such contradiction by sinners against themselves might know it is to the end that they marvel at His gracious patience. But a vessel not prepared afore to mercy...will only find it a vexing and "off limits" question. Till he is awoken. And then may even delight in God's forbearance to his very own self for his own obvious shortcomings.

Or why he (Paul) was so broken and in continual sorrow over his "kinsmen" after the flesh (the Jews) at their stiffnecked resistance of a thing made so clear in his sight as being all through the Tanakh, yet in all unconvinced by him, instead seeking his death. God showed him the plan...and who, and what was at work...that the gospel then "go to the gentiles" till the time of the gentiles be fulfilled.

How much has come out of revelations given to men who asked well beyond their ability to understand...and found answer...not by their own ability to figure out...but by a grace appointed to them.

They followed a Lord made not unlike themselves, yet Holy and without sin...who relied upon and even said :

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.


And yes, grace is marvelous.

 

[Spotlite]

Misapplication.

You do understand the Lord speaks many things to disciples...not the least of which is repeated often: Ask...seek...knock...

The potter being questioned by the clay as to "why then did you make me thus?" is the one who does not recognize his need of mercy, instead responding (rather than with gratitude) "since you made me like this, what right do you have to judge me?" (Why then does he still find fault?)

We do not preach that...we preach God has all right to judge all men because HE IS GOD. It is His prerogative ALONE to judge all men as He chooses to.

The man accepting of this sees the need for mercy and may find it in Christ, and so is said "happy is the man whose sins are forgiven, to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity".

Do not misunderstand that a great deal of that joy is owed to having a faithful Father through Christ that does not find any questioning by His own odious, or off limits even...He is able to respond if one is in need of correction for presumption.

It would be terrible to presume the God that says "Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not."...is lying.

Or that Jesus tells His disciples

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

yes, God does not exempt the "mind" in its being devoted to the love of Him, nor does He withhold understanding from those who meet the many questions there in their walking with him.


Yes, by all means read the scriptures, see the things shown to Paul of resolution of matters that to him were provoking of seeking...

"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

Do you think Paul did not have some wonder as to the goodness of God he had been shown in the mercy of Christ to him to consider..."why then does God tolerate the continual evil doer?"

Paul saw it...God's patience! So that even the vessels of mercy suffering under such contradiction by sinners against themselves might know it is to the end that they marvel at His gracious patience. But a vessel not prepared afore to mercy...will only find it a vexing and "off limits" question. Till he is awoken.

Or why he was so broken and in continual sorrow over his "kinsmen" after the flesh (the Jews) at their stiffnecked resistance of a thing made so clear in his sight as being all through the Tanakh, yet in all unconvinced by him, instead seeking his death. God showed him the plan...and who, and what was at work...that the gospel then "go to the gentiles" till the time of the gentiles be fulfilled.

How much has come out of revelations given to men who asked well beyond their ability to understand...and found answer...not by their own ability to figure out...but by a grace appointed to them.

“The man accepting of this sees the need for mercy”

We can acknowledge we don’t question God and admit we don’t do His thinking, but I believe the discussion is dealing with God picking some for the cool place and others for the hot place - and man can’t do what you just said ^^^^^

If Banjo stated that he saw his need for mercy and was a “man accepting”………he’d be faced with “it’s all about man” and “earning salvation”.

 

[Israel]

“The man accepting of this sees the need for mercy”

We can acknowledge we don’t question God and admit we don’t do Hid thinking, but I believe the discussion is dealing with God picking some for the cool place and others for the hot place - and man can’t do what you just said ^^^^^

If Banjo stated that he saw his need for mercy and was a “man accepting”………he’d be faced with “it’s all about man” and “earning salvation”.

Do you believe God cannot bring a man to see his utter need for mercy?

What proof would you need? That only God can reveal?

You presume much...even what you believe I would (or is it someone "like me"?) say to another in conversation with them.

And presumption is as good a place to start as any.

Do you like to stir coals where none are? Maybe just read back a few posts and see where Banjo and I are resting.

And not me only.

 

[Madman]

You better hope arrogance won't keep you out of The Promised Land.

Or false teaching either.

 

[Ruger#3]

The Lord warned us….

28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.
30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

 

[gemcgrew]

You better hope arrogance won't keep you out of The Promised Land.

Zero concern.

 

[BanjoPicker]

The Bible makes many simple statements that limit God's knowledge. There would be no sense to such passages if WE DO NOT BELIEVE THEM LITERALLY. There is no meaning to them if we take them figuratively. There was no object in God saying such things about Himself if they were UNTRUE. God gets to know things concerning the FREE MORAL ACTIONS OF MEN as OTHERS DO (Gen. 6:5-7; 11:5-7; 18:21; 22:12; 2 Chron. 16:9; Zech. 4:10; Job 12:22; 24:23; Ps. 7:9; 44:21; Ps. 139:1-6; Prov. 24:12; Jer. 17:10; Ezek. 11:5; Rom. 8:27; 1 Thess. 2:4). God sends messengers throughout the Earth who report to Him of all that they find in the Earth that goes on (Dan. 10:13-21; 11:1; 12:1; Zech. 1:7-11; 6:1-8; Mt. 18:10, 11; Heb. 2:4). God does not take care of every detail of His vast business in all the kingdoms of the universe. His agents help Him, and they are found in every part of the universe on missions for God. Certain angels are responsible to God for carrying out His will in almost infinite detail concerning the billions of suns, moons, planets and ALL FREE MORAL AGENTS ON THEM. God does not personally do everything that is done in all acts and events, nor has He known, elected, chosen, or predestinated all the acts and events from all eternity past.
Several times God, Himself said of certain events that they did not come into His mind Jer. 19:5; 32:35; 44:21; God did not know beforehand that men would become so wicked (Gen. 6:5-7); that they would plan Bable (Gen. 11:5-7); that Sodom would be so wicked (Gen. 18:21, 26, 28-32); that Abraham would actually proceed to offer up Isaac (Gen. 22:12); God did not know whether it would take one or two or three signs to make Israel believe in Him (Ex. 4:1-12); or whether testing Israel would cause them to obey Him or not (Dt. 8:2, 16); He did not know that Israel would backslide as far as she did (Dt. 32:19-29; Isa. 59:15-19); He discovers deep things (Job 12:22); tries the hearts and reins of men so that He may know them (Ps. 7:9; 44:21; 139:1-6, 23-24; Jer. 17:10; 1 Chr. 28:9; Rom. 8:27; 1 Cor. 2:10; Rev. 2:23), proving all men for the same reason (Ps. 17:3; 66:10; 81:7).

God sends messengers throughout the whole of His vast creations to find out for Him what He wants to know, so that plans may be made and actions taken accordingly. Examples of such agency constantly reporting to God can be found in Gen. 1821, 22; Dan. 10:13-21; 11:1; Zech. 1:7-11; 6:1-8; Mt. 18:10, 11; Heb. 1:14; 2:2; Rev. 1:1; 7:1-3; 8:2-13; 9:1; 14:6-20; 15:1-8; 16:1-21; 18:21; 22:6, 8, 9,16.

There is no statement in the entire Bible saying that God knows or even would like to know all acts and particular events of all vast creations of free moral agents from all eternity past; or that He has fixed decrees choosing and predestinating all the thoughts, acts and deeds of free wills from all eternity past to all eternity future.

God cannot lie (Heb. 6:17-19); have respect of persons (Rom. 2:11; Col. 3:25; 2 Pet. 1:17); be tempted to do evil or tempt man with evil (Jas. 13-15); forgive unconfessed sin (Lk. 13:1-5; 1 Jn. 1:9); and keep one saved who turns back to sin and lives rebellion (Gen. 2:17; Ezek. 3:17-21; 18:4-24; 33:7:16; Mk. 7:19-21; Rom. 1:21-32; 6:16-23; 8:12,13; Gal. 5:19-21; 6:7, 8; Col. 3:5-10.

Now one can accept these true Scriptures of God and what he means by them, or they cannot that is THEIR CHOICE that will be between them and God. but they are true.
I believe God's truth and Words have been proved!

Matt. 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
I hope and pray that God blesses all of you and keeps you safe.

 

[Nicodemus]

Zero concern.

I`m not surprised.

Why don`t you give me a smart butt answer like you do others here?

I`ll wait.

 

[gemcgrew]

I`m not surprised.

Why don`t you give me a smart butt answer like you do others here?

I`ll wait.

Feel free to point out a smart butt answer.

 

[Spotlite]

Do you believe God cannot bring a man to see his utter need for mercy?

What proof would you need? That only God can reveal?

You presume much...even what you believe I would (or is it someone "like me"?) say to another in conversation with them.

And presumption is as good a place to start as any.

Do you like to stir coals where none are? Maybe just read back a few posts and see where Banjo and I are resting.

And not me only.

I never questioned God’s ability.

You said this - “The man accepting of this sees the need for mercy”

A travel back in time reveals you also saying man CAN’T do that - accept. And connects it to a man saving himself.

 

[Nicodemus]

Feel free to point out a smart butt answer.

Every post you make. Why don`t you speak so we all can understand you?

 

[gemcgrew]

Why don`t you speak so we all can understand you?

If this is a spiritual question, it may be that "the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them".

If this is a physical question, it may be that less than 4% of the population are logicians. 96% of the population would struggle to understand them.

Nic, you do not have to trap or ban me. If I am no longer welcome here, you only need to ask me to leave. It really is that simple.

Glenn

 

[Nicodemus]

If this is a spiritual question, it may be that "the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them".

If this is a physical question, it may be that less than 4% of the population are logicians. 96% of the population would struggle to understand them.

Nic, you do not have to trap or ban me. If I am no longer welcome here, you only need to ask me to leave. It really is that simple.

Glenn

I`m not wanting to trap or ban you, Mr. McGrew. You know that. All I ask is that you speak in language that is not vague or anything else most people can understand. Perhaps it will even help those who don`t completely understand things.

Spread your knowledge to others.

 

[The Original Rooster]

Misapplication.

You do understand the Lord speaks many things to disciples...not the least of which is repeated often: Ask...seek...knock...

The potter being questioned by the clay as to "why then did you make me thus?" is the one who does not recognize his need of mercy, instead responding (rather than with gratitude) "since you made me like this, what right do you have to judge me?" (Why then does he still find fault?)

We do not preach that...we preach God has all right to judge all men because HE IS GOD. It is His prerogative ALONE to judge all men as He chooses to. He is God.

The man accepting of this sees the need for mercy and may find it in Christ, and so is said "happy is the man whose sins are forgiven, to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity".

Do not misunderstand that a great deal of that joy is owed to having a faithful Father through Christ that does not find any questioning by His own odious, or off limits even...He is able to respond if one is in need of correction for presumption.

It would be terrible to presume the God that says "Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not."...is lying.

Or that Jesus tells His disciples

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

yes, God does not exempt the "mind" in its being devoted to the love of Him, nor does He withhold understanding from those who meet the many questions there in their walking with him.


Yes, by all means read the scriptures, see the things shown to Paul of resolution of matters that to him were provoking of seeking...

"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

Do you think Paul did not have some wonder as to the goodness of God he had been shown in the mercy of Christ to him to consider..."why then does God tolerate the continual evil doer?"

Paul saw it...God's patience! So that even the vessels of mercy suffering under such contradiction by sinners against themselves might know it is to the end that they marvel at His gracious patience. But a vessel not prepared afore to mercy...will only find it a vexing and "off limits" question. Till he is awoken. And then may even delight in God's forbearance to his very own self for his own obvious shortcomings.

Or why he (Paul) was so broken and in continual sorrow over his "kinsmen" after the flesh (the Jews) at their stiffnecked resistance of a thing made so clear in his sight as being all through the Tanakh, yet in all unconvinced by him, instead seeking his death. God showed him the plan...and who, and what was at work...that the gospel then "go to the gentiles" till the time of the gentiles be fulfilled.

How much has come out of revelations given to men who asked well beyond their ability to understand...and found answer...not by their own ability to figure out...but by a grace appointed to them.

They followed a Lord made not unlike themselves, yet Holy and without sin...who relied upon and even said :

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.


And yes, grace is marvelous.

No Israel, all I'm saying is this. There's no misapplication at all.
Romans 11
33 Oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?

 

[Israel]

No Israel, all I'm saying is this. There's no misapplication at all.
Romans 11
33 Oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?

Yes, Paul exclaimed that after seeing the plan of God for Jews and gentiles in Christ.

Is that not plain what he is referring to in consequence?

Seriously, do you not see that?

Of course Paul knew he couldn't figure it out, nor did he...but he saw.

Revelation.