Gon editor opinion by Daryl Kirby

[buckpasser]

I help manage a 2500 acre tract down the road from my house. We burn religiously on that Tract and it has plenty of turkeys. The turkeys are about gone everywhere else though.

When and size/percentage of area burned?

 

[Kev]

When and size/percentage of area burned?

We've burned about 1000 acres so far this season. In stands with heavy hardwood understory we do a spring burn. Once we get the understory species we want we usually revert back to winter burns. It just depends on the stand and the situation.

Our burn units are usually in 70-300 acre blocks.

 

[WOODIE13]

When they don't burn regularly you have wildfires with a lot of fuel and heat, does more damage than good and hurts mast trees.

Have killed a few over still smoking areas on Benning and Quantico, makes finding food pretty easy, plus all the fresh greenery popping up.

 

[buckpasser]

Not burning regularly is bad, but burning, especially large scale, during nesting season might be worse. How about just burn properly? It’s no more work to do it right.

 

[WOODIE13]

Not burning regularly is bad, but burning, especially large scale, during nesting season might be worse. How about just burn properly? It’s no more work to do it right.

I'm talking about the NPS, the don't do any here, had some big fires back in the fall.

 

[Resica]

Poorly performed burns do in fact hurt turkey populations and there is no excuse for it. All public ground could be burned ahead of turkey nesting. Burned over nests are almost always destroyed. Renesting odds are crap. There’s no way to justify this and like it or not Bartram ain’t here no mo.

@C.Killmaster, the rub is the late burns on public ground at the same the government is telling us they want to help the “population problem” by starting season later and limiting opportunity. If I don’t have a “problem” on well managed private property (that’s burned before 3/7 of each year), it hurts to see the state guys destroying nests and nesting cover. Surely you can see the issue from our side, right? It’s dumb and should be addressed to keep the state employees from looking like idiots.

Turkeys renest very often!

 

[Dupree]

Turkeys renest very often!

And renesting success is much lower than the initial nest, plus it’s added stress on the hen.

 

[Resica]

And renesting success is much lower than the initial nest, plus it’s added stress on the hen.

Not if the original nest is kaput. I think its good to have nesting spread out, at least here. If they were all hatched at the same time and you have a week or so of cool, wet days, you are could lose most of them.

 

[buckpasser]

Not if the original nest is kaput. I think it’s good to have nesting spread out, at least here. If they were all hatched at the same time and you have a week or so of cool, wet days, you are could lose most of them.

Look up the stats. After the first clutch the odds are right at zero for poult recruitment. They will try, but burning over a hen’s nest is a BIG deal.

Oddly enough, all the new fangled crazy notions are beginning to look, well, crazy. Meanwhile, “science” is showing us what we should already know——burning animals or their eggs is generally bad for them. Lol!!!

 

[Swamprat]

Renesting is not the best option, hens will lay one egg a day for several days or longer depending on clutch size but generally all the eggs will hatch in the same time frame.

So after lets say 20 or so days and the nest is destroyed by fire, predators, hen spooked off nest by hunters, etc the hen in that time frame really does not forage that much. Hen does renest in a different area a few days later but is not the best of shape health wise. Cycle repeats of one egg a day for several more days. Not the best of situations.

 

[Resica]

Look up the stats. After the first clutch the odds are right at zero for poult recruitment. They will try, but burning over a hen’s nest is a BIG deal.

Oddly enough, all the new fangled crazy notions are beginning to look, well, crazy. Meanwhile, “science” is showing us what we should already know——burning animals or their eggs is generally bad for them. Lol!!!

I wasn't talking about renesting after fire but I guess renesting after poult loss to other reasons are similar. I see a lot of different age group poults in the summer. Someone is renesting.

 

[buckpasser]

I wasn't talking about renesting after fire but I guess renesting after poult loss to other reasons are similar. I see a lot of different age group poults in the summer. Someone is renesting.

I see them too. Some are likely re-nesters, but some hens are just on different clocks. Also, a hen losing a nest 3 eggs in is very different than a hen being burned off on day 24 of incubation. That said, some things are out of our control. Poor burn timing ain’t one.

 

[Swamprat]

Quite a few folks, better success in getting rid of your unwanted species such as maples, sweetgums, etc when they are not dormant.

Late season fire is not bad, any fire is good for the long term but it needs to be in moderation. Don't go torching 2-300 acres but scale back to a few blocks of 10-40 acres and put the rest into rotational burns. Think I have seen a study where turkeys will use the burned areas for 2-3 years for brood rearing and once it gets thick they will move to the area burned a year prior for nesting and brooding.

Benifits are you are creating edge habitat where a poult can duck into for cover, having herbaceous browse sprout up, creating open areas where birds can move around more easily, etc.

 

[jdgator]

I understand that up till about 20 years ago they were still stocking eastern wild turkey across much of the southeast (including GA) in order to replenish the populations.

Can anyone speak to this?

 

[buckpasser]

Who conducts these “late season burns” that y’all are talking about ?

This thread is in relation to large scale, late, public land burns that are almost purely for the accomplishment of providing a perceived vision of a pine ecosystem, and hold turkeys in zero regard while doing it.

My soap box ramblings are directed at anyone burning any woods later than is necessary, for the hopeful enlightenment of some land managers who are being fed untruthful propaganda on the matter.

 

[Kev]

Fire or growing season burns, isn’t causing our turkey problem. You better be careful what you wish for.

 

[Swamprat]

Last restocking effort I know about was Holmes County, FL in early 2000's. The county was shut down for several years to turkey hunting and I think 10 years ago it opened for only several days with a one bird limit. I could be wrong since I have not checked lately but think it is open all season with maybe just a one bird limit still.

So in a nutshell a state can restrict certain counties if needed to get populations back but other than Holmes County have not heard of any restocking efforts in the SE as of late but could see it happen again as need be but would probably be a waste with a lot of ag now converted to pine wasteland. high predator populations, etc.

 

[Long Cut]

I’ll ask myself a different question. “Do I want more turkeys or less?”

If we’re top killing sweetgums on a three year fire interval and burning zero nests, but never achieving Bartram’s wiregrass ecosystem, am I okay with that? Why yes, yes I am.

I’m speaking about burning on a 1-2 year interval. A 3 year interval will not successfully eliminate sweet gums and other mid story trees. 1-2 year intervals however, do.

I’ll keep burning blocks on a rotating 1-2 year interval as needed. Still seeing plenty of turkeys.

 

[Long Cut]

I’ll let the pictures talk.

Family farm I help manage for wildlife.
We cut, spray, & burn religiously. Haven’t trapped much but trying to change that as we speak.

 

[Resica]

Not burning regularly is bad, but burning, especially large scale, during nesting season might be worse. How about just burn properly? It’s no more work to do it right.

I saw a video awhile back about turkey nesting and burning and these researchers were tracking hens. I don't remember the number of hens tracked but they said the loss of nests was low, if I remember correctly. I'll look for the video, probably won't find it.