Jay Gregory’s take on CWD

[buckpasser]

So it was like a COVID death then,died with COVID

Nope. Died of-OF-OF. As in; Died because of, Died from complications of, Dead due to, Smashed by, Rolled, Killed, Demolished. In other words, died OF clinical CWD. And I mean died all the way dead. Get it?

 

[C.Killmaster]

I did just take time to watch the video. I will say that were it to be found here, there is no sense in trying to “kill” it out IMO. Suspend feeding? Sure. Kill the deer to an ultra low population to “prevent” spread? Sounds like a waste of time. @C.Killmaster can you share anything about the procedure if we ever get the bad news?

Yep, absolutely. After watching the trial and error of so many other states dealing with CWD for the 18 years of my career here are my main priorities that form the foundation of our CWD response in Georgia.

#1 Prevent humans from facilitating the introduction of CWD into new areas. We banned the importation of live deer into Georgia in 2005 and currently don't allow the importation of whole carcasses or heads of deer from outside Georgia.

If/when we find CWD we will establish a disease management zone (any county touching a 5 mile radius around any case of CWD). We will prohibit whole carcasses and heads from leaving that zone, so folks will have to debone meat first or use a processor in the area. We will help provide facilities to make this easier on hunters.

#2 Keep prevalence of CWD low. Whenever we get a positive case of CWD we will work with the hunter/landowner to identify where the deer was killed and permit them to remove additional deer in the immediate vicinity which are most likely to be positive. Basically, the other deer that were in the same family group likely had the most contact with the sick deer. This strategy has been proven to keep prevalence low in several states, particularly Illinois and Missouri.

It's important to note that we don't intend to significantly reduce deer populations, just target the individuals most likely to also be positive. While there are some areas of Georgia that have too many deer (urban and ag landscapes) most of Georgia has a very balanced deer population and significantly reducing it is not a management objective for CWD. We will use a scalpel rather than an ax if you will.

#3 Monitor the spread and prevalence of CWD and make testing widely accessible to hunters. CDC recommends that hunters test deer killed in CWD management zones before eating them. We will strive to make testing available to hunters and return test results as quickly as possible in CWD zones. CWD testing is currently available statewide to every Georgia hunter by contacting your local Game Management Office, though fees may apply to expedite test results.

Those are the primary priorities for managing CWD in our response plan, more details are listed at https://georgiawildlife.com/cwd.

Additional key facts:
CWD moves like a SLOW cancer, it grows slowly but steadily over time if you don't manage it. Unlike every other disease that flares up and dies down, CWD just keeps slowly growing. Without management actions it takes 20 to 30 years to reach prevalence rates high enough to start significantly impact deer populations. In the heart of CWD zones in Arkansas and West Virginia there are as many deer dying from CWD as there are from hunters.

Areas that maintain low prevalence through the method in #2 are able to avoid most death directly related to CWD by selectively removing the individual deer most likely to be sick. The real lesson here is that by the time you start to see lots of deer dying from CWD our ability to manage the disease was lost many years earlier.

 

[buckpasser]

Yep, absolutely. After watching the trial and error of so many other states dealing with CWD for the 18 years of my career here are my main priorities that form the foundation of our CWD response in Georgia.

#1 Prevent humans from facilitating the introduction of CWD into new areas. We banned the importation of live deer into Georgia in 2005 and currently don't allow the importation of whole carcasses or heads of deer from outside Georgia.

If/when we find CWD we will establish a disease management zone (any county touching a 5 mile radius around any case of CWD). We will prohibit whole carcasses and heads from leaving that zone, so folks will have to debone meat first or use a processor in the area. We will help provide facilities to make this easier on hunters.

#2 Keep prevalence of CWD low. Whenever we get a positive case of CWD we will work with the hunter/landowner to identify where the deer was killed and permit them to remove additional deer in the immediate vicinity which are most likely to be positive. Basically, the other deer that were in the same family group likely had the most contact with the sick deer. This strategy has been proven to keep prevalence low in several states, particularly Illinois and Missouri.

It's important to note that we don't intend to significantly reduce deer populations, just target the individuals most likely to also be positive. While there are some areas of Georgia that have too many deer (urban and ag landscapes) most of Georgia has a very balanced deer population and significantly reducing it is not a management objective for CWD. We will use a scalpel rather than an ax if you will.

#3 Monitor the spread and prevalence of CWD and make testing widely accessible to hunters. CDC recommends that hunters test deer killed in CWD management zones before eating them. We will strive to make testing available to hunters and return test results as quickly as possible in CWD zones. CWD testing is currently available statewide to every Georgia hunter by contacting your local Game Management Office, though fees may apply to expedite test results.

Those are the primary priorities for managing CWD in our response plan, more details are listed at https://georgiawildlife.com/cwd.

Additional key facts:
CWD moves like a SLOW cancer, it grows slowly but steadily over time if you don't manage it. Unlike every other disease that flares up and dies down, CWD just keeps slowly growing. Without management actions it takes 20 to 30 years to reach prevalence rates high enough to start significantly impact deer populations. In the heart of CWD zones in Arkansas and West Virginia there are as many deer dying from CWD as there are from hunters.

Areas that maintain low prevalence through the method in #2 are able to avoid most death directly related to CWD by selectively removing the individual deer most likely to be sick. The real lesson here is that by the time you start to see lots of deer dying from CWD our ability to manage the disease was lost many years earlier.

As usual, an awesome response. Thank you Sir! Is the lambda graph I posted generally accurate in your experience? Population decrease at .3 and beyond? As a full time wildlife manager, that stat stuck out to me big time! Wouldn’t it be nice if it was more like a 3-5 year incubation? Probably have zero effect if that were the case.

 

[C.Killmaster]

Has there been 1 confirmed documented case of a CWD death? Not one that was killed and had CWD but one that died from it.

Yes, and it's growing. Direct mortality from CWD is starting to exceed the hunting mortality in the heart of CWD zones in Arkansas and West Virginia. I had a rather chilling recent conversation with the deer biologist in WV where he described a deer with holes worn in it's hide along the spine from the tips of the vertebrae as it walked around as a sack of skin and bones. It took 30 years for that area to reach that level of disease, but that is the leading cause of death surpassing hunting in that county.

This is the main issue with CWD, the effects are so delayed. The actions we take NOW don't affect us, but rather our grandchildren. Taking CWD seriously now in our lifetime is the equivalent of our predecessors restocking deer. Many of them never lived to see the phenomenal deer hunting resulting from their effort and dollars.

 

[sghoghunter]

Yes, and it's growing. Direct mortality from CWD is starting to exceed the hunting mortality in the heart of CWD zones in Arkansas and West Virginia. I had a rather chilling recent conversation with the deer biologist in WV where he described a deer with holes worn in it's hide along the spine from the tips of the vertebrae as it walked around as a sack of skin and bones. It took 30 years for that area to reach that level of disease, but that is the leading cause of death surpassing hunting in that county.

This is the main issue with CWD, the effects are so delayed. The actions we take NOW don't affect us, but rather our grandchildren. Taking CWD seriously now in our lifetime is the equivalent of our predecessors restocking deer. Many of them never lived to see the phenomenal deer hunting resulting from their effort and dollars.

If it took 30 yrs for that area to have one deer walk around like skin and bones how can it kill a deer in 18 to 24 months?

 

[C.Killmaster]

If it took 30 yrs for that area to have one deer walk around like skin and bones how can it kill a deer in 18 to 24 months?

It took 30 years for CWD deaths to rival hunting deaths, but there were plenty that died of CWD leading up to that. Early on most deer with CWD get killed by hunters or some other means before CWD becomes a factor. CWD prevalence is the precentage of deer that are infected with CWD at a given time. As prevalence increases over time more deer end up dying from CWD than from hunters.

With the long incubation and targeted removals we can actually keep prevalence low where very few deer actually die from CWD. If we keep prevalence low then fewer hunter-killed deer test positive and can be eaten or shared with food banks. If prevalence is allowed to increase far more deer are wasted and must be discarded.

 

[antharper]

I believe you’re correct about money generation. The money is being generated by the deer hunting industry and they’re afraid it might dry up. The money is scared, as it should be. If you haven’t researched prion diseases, maybe just don’t. They are totally outside the bounds of medicine/science’s understanding both in mode and transmission. They always kill the host and could most certainly reduce the quality and quantity of the GA deer herd at some point. I’m not ready to blow it off yet. I’d need to see some data proving they even fully understand it first.

That wasn’t my words or thoughts ! I was giving Mr slow a quick summary of the video

 

[NCHillbilly]

Has there been 1 confirmed documented case of a CWD death? Not one that was killed and had CWD but one that died from it.

Yes, plenty. It is 100% fatal.

 

[NCHillbilly]

If it took 30 yrs for that area to have one deer walk around like skin and bones how can it kill a deer in 18 to 24 months?

I don't think you're getting what he's saying at all. As far as I've seen, pretty much every deer that gets CWD dies from it. Kind of like one of us getting metastatic cancer. The 30 years is the amount of time it took for CWD to spread in the local deer population to the point that it became the main cause of deer mortality in that certain area. As in, more deer overall were dying from CWD than were being killed by hunters, cars, predators, etc. Individual infected deer were dying from it from the beginning.

 

[Madsnooker]

Great thread!!!! Although it started with a video of Mr. Gregory's rant, we are now getting great info from Mr Killmaster. Although I get Mr Gregory's frustration and alot of what he said is correct, he goes to far the other direction as he is letting his emotions get the best of him. Reading thru Mr Killmasters detailed responses a couple of times to fully understand what he is saying, I believe he and the state of GA have a great plan in place and are confident in their ability to deal with this disease should it ever cross Ga state lines.
Thank you Mr Killmaster for your willingness to get on here and discuss this hot topic very candidly. Well spoken and just dealing with the facts. Makes me confident my family will not lose the fantastic hunting we have in Dooly county in the years ahead.

 

[buckpasser]

@sghoghunter

Are you just funning us, or do you believe CWD is a scam and a lie?

 

[bigchiefchoctaw]

With Charlie making a thread about this I would post all this great info in that thread

 

[sghoghunter]

@sghoghunter

Are you just funning us, or do you believe CWD is a scam and a lie?

I don’t believe CWD or anything else is a scam or a real threat but I have enough common sense to let me see there’s a lot of ** being said. Deer are social animals and are nose touching,licking and smelling licking branches just like they browse in the woods and plots. They also eat under spin feeders,under oak trees,trough feeders and gravity feeders. If it’s so serious outlaw feeders,corn piles and food plots that contain animals in a small area. How will killing as many deer as you can help something that might not have affected those dead deer in the first place? There’s all kinds of questions that can be asked but everyone gets just like you when asked. They blow a fuse and get huffing mad and start stomping around

 

[sghoghunter]

 

[C.Killmaster]

I don't really disagree with much of what he says in this particular video, but he does tend to downplay the concern for CWD too much. My biggest issue with his views on CWD is that he doesn't acknowledge that it never goes away and that we now have areas where it is the single biggest thing killing deer. I can tell you for a fact that we don't ignore EHD and never have. We've been doing routine surveillance for it long before we even started surveillance for CWD. Because we have such high populations of the little flies that transmit it in Georgia our deer have pretty high immunity to EHD and not many deer die from it. We do routinely submit samples to the lab to track the new strains of EHD that may be coming in from elsewhere. Both diseases are extremely important and should be taken seriously, the importance of one doesn't negate the other.