Muzzleloading Rookies

[Desert Rat]

I'm staying inside 3 inches at 100 yards using 70 grains of Pyrodex, 440 ball and .010 patches.
Since I pulled the CVA nipple and put in a TC nipple, my rifle has behaved much better. I think the CVA was too short and the set screw may have been partially blocking it.

 

[Desert Rat]

My rifle is shooting a lot faster now. Using Pyrodex RS all I have to do between shots is run a dry patch down the barrel until the bore feels smooth. The patch doesn't even have to be clean.
They "Nay Sayers" can say what they want about Bore Butter, but it works for me. Once a month I give my barrel a bath in near boiling water, dry it with the air compressor and liberally swab it with Bore Butter while it's still hot.

 

[mmarkey]

Hey Desert Rat, you need to go shooting with Lorren68 and me sometime. I'll give you the opportunity to shoot a flintlock. It'll give you an experience you may never recover from. Shooting Flintlock is a very contagious desease of which there is only one cure, your own flintlock.

On the cleaning issue, when I shoot, I almost never swab between shots. Only when it is very humid, and then not often. I clean with hot tap water (not boiling at all, boiling can cause flash rusting) with a couple of drops of dishwash. Two patches pumped through the bore with the barrel off the stock. Dump the water and plain hot tap water rinse, Two patches pumped through the bore. Then dry the bore with as many patches as it takes to get a clean smooth bore. I wipe the bore with WD-40 to remove any last trace of moisture. Wipe with a dry patch again Then I OIL the bore with Rem Oil, run a clean dry patch in the bore before you shoot to remove the oil and you're good to go. Been shooting Flintlocks since 1974 never had a problem with rust in the barrels. For patch lube, recently I have tried "Hoppes 9 Plus" and I like that as a lube but I don't clean with it. I still like good old spit (saliva) for patch lube at the range as well.

Don't have any problem with oil in the bore. (have no idea where that started. Herchel House a famous builder uses 30 weight motor oil in his barrels, but it's your choice) Oil stops/prevents rust. I don't know what is in bore butter (animal fat?) but I wouldn't use it as a rust preventative. As a patch lube I might use it for a hunting patch lube, but I use Mink Oil whenever I do hunt which has been infrequent as of late.

There is a lot of voodoo and hocus pocus about shooting these weapons. Just use common sense. Would you oil your modern weapons with animal fat?

Regarding synthetic black powder. It can be more corrosive than regular old black powder, and in some cases it won't work as well. Don't use it in a flintlock it may not even fire it requires hotter ignition than you get with a flash in the pan.

Good luck and please join us at the range some time.

 

[Redleaf]

How smooth a bore is will determine how often it needs wiping. I can shoot my rifles all day without wiping as long as I dont stop for more than five or ten minutes. Then one moist patch will clean it good enough that an hour later it will load easy. When I clean up, I use water and some kind of cleaner like mean green or murphy's. Dry the bore and oil with light machine oil. If I know I'm not going to shoot it again for a couple of months, I use break free. The wax in bore butter will seal up the bore so no moisture can get to the metal. You just need to be completely sure its dry before you use it. Its possible to seal up some moisture under the bore butter and get rust under that layer of wax.

 

[Desert Rat]

Its possible to seal up some moisture under the bore butter and get rust under that layer of wax.

That's the reason for very hot water, with the nipple and set screw removed, and the air compressor set at 100 psi. I also run a dry patch through it to make sure it's dry.
I actually cleaned tar out of this barrel, meaning the original owner used petroleum based cleaners and oils.

Anyway, it's nice to be down to just a couple of minutes between shots instead of the 15 to 20 minutes it used to take. If I didn't take that long, I ended up pulling a stuck ball. I'm not kidding. The barrel would foul that badly with each shot using Pyrodex.
With a .010 lubed patch, I can probably skip the dry swab. I did it once by accident. It took a bit more effort than I like to get the ball seated, but I got it down there. It fired just fine.

My son is working on his third box of 100 rounds for his replica 1858 New Army .44. I'm barely into my second box.

 

[Redleaf]

That "tar" might also have been a combination of wax or oil and fouling cooked onto the bore. The old myth of "seasoning" a bore like an iron skillet is nothing more than wiping over fouling mixed with oil or some kind of wax based lube. Petroleum products are fine for rust prevention and just used that way will never present a problem, provided the gun is cleaned properly. If you take a dirty bore and just oil it without removing the fouling first, then you'll get that asphalt buildup in there. There's a million ways to abuse a rifle barrel, and muzzleloader shooters have just about cornered the market on that. Alot of it comes from the fact that its extremely hard to clean one with the rod that comes in the gun. A good stiff stainless 5/16" range rod with a bore guide and a handle will make muzzleloader shooting and cleaning a whole lot more fun and much easier to do. Thats the first thing I recommend to new shooters, get a good range rod first.

 

[mmarkey]

D. Rat, For a guy that is grass green is this hobby you seem verrrrry resistant to take some sound advice. You should be easily able to load your rifle and fire it within a minute without rushing. If you can't it means you are getting excessive fouling or you have a rough barrel.
From your description I guess you're shooting a Hawkin style rifle. I shoot a flintlock with a 50 cal, 44" long barrel. I shoot a .490 cast ball with a .018 patch. Many shooters would call that a loose load. If I was having problems loading like you're having I would have probably given this up years ago.

Redleaf and I are on the same page but you are not listening. You mentioned you are using Pyrodex. Pyrodex is more corrosive than Black Powder, Not BETTER. It came on the market several years ago when black powder was getting scarce, and had problems from the get-go.

My first recommendation to you is get some 3f or 2f black powder.

My second recommendation is to try using spit for a patch lube and skip the bore butter for range shooting and put it in your Hunting kit.

My third recommendation is to stop boiling your cleaning water, Put the compressor away in the garage. Warm, or hot from the tap water in a pail with a few drops of dish wash detergent, put the breech in the pail and a cleaning patch on your rod and pump it through the bore till it runs clean. Then change to plain hot/warm water and do the same to rinse. Then run patches through the bore to dry it all. A pipe cleaner in the nipple will clean and dry that. Then run an oily, repeat oily patch in the bore to prevent rust. When you go to shoot next time run a clean patch to REMOVE the oil from the bore, and snap a cap to blow out the nipple.

If any roughness is detected in the bore, I would put some 0000 steel wool on a cleaning jag and run it through the bore to smooth it out then Oil it.

My fourth recommendation is to think about your ball/patch combo. I guess you are shooting a .45 cal based on the
.440 ball and the .010 patch. A tighter patch will give you less fouling as well.

My final suggestion is if you indeed have to swab the bore, use a wet (not sopping) patch then a dry patch. A dry patch alone is doing nothing but spreading around the fouling that is already there. It needs to be removed, at least somewhat.

If you follow these suggestions, I will guarantee that you will eliminate your problem with hard loading. Remember load and fire in a minute, not difficult. Good luck.

The invite to shoot with Lorren68 and me is still open.

 

[Nicodemus]

D. Rat, For a guy that is grass green is this hobby you seem verrrrry resistant to take some sound advice. You should be easily able to load your rifle and fire it within a minute without rushing. If you can't it means you are getting excessive fouling or you have a rough barrel.
From your description I guess you're shooting a Hawkin style rifle. I shoot a flintlock with a 50 cal, 44" long barrel. I shoot a .490 cast ball with a .018 patch. Many shooters would call that a loose load. If I was having problems loading like you're having I would have probably given this up years ago.

Redleaf and I are on the same page but you are not listening. You mentioned you are using Pyrodex. Pyrodex is more corrosive than Black Powder, Not BETTER. It came on the market several years ago when black powder was getting scarce, and had problems from the get-go.

My first recommendation to you is get some 3f or 2f black powder.

My second recommendation is to try using spit for a patch lube and skip the bore butter for range shooting and put it in your Hunting kit.

My third recommendation is to stop boiling your cleaning water, Put the compressor away in the garage. Warm, or hot from the tap water in a pail with a few drops of dish wash detergent, put the breech in the pail and a cleaning patch on your rod and pump it through the bore till it runs clean. Then change to plain hot/warm water and do the same to rinse. Then run patches through the bore to dry it all. A pipe cleaner in the nipple will clean and dry that. Then run an oily, repeat oily patch in the bore to prevent rust. When you go to shoot next time run a clean patch to REMOVE the oil from the bore, and snap a cap to blow out the nipple.

If any roughness is detected in the bore, I would put some 0000 steel wool on a cleaning jag and run it through the bore to smooth it out then Oil it.

My fourth recommendation is to think about your ball/patch combo. I guess you are shooting a .45 cal based on the
.440 ball and the .010 patch. A tighter patch will give you less fouling as well.

My final suggestion is if you indeed have to swab the bore, use a wet (not sopping) patch then a dry patch. A dry patch alone is doing nothing but spreading around the fouling that is already there. It needs to be removed, at least somewhat.

If you follow these suggestions, I will guarantee that you will eliminate your problem with hard loading. Remember load and fire in a minute, not difficult. Good luck.

The invite to shoot with Lorren68 and me is still open.

Very good advice.

 

[SASS249]

Very good advice.

x3. Good advice.

Frankly, if you can not get something in the neighborhood of 5 shots off without having to run a patch then something is just not right. We routinely shoot woods walks where time is part of the score. You have to be able to load and fire numerous shots in a short period to be competitive.

Are you seeing any tears or cuts in your shot patches? It does sound as if you might have some roughness in the barrel that could be lapped out.

A few years ago I purposely kept loading and shooting without running any patches through my rifle. This was a 50 cal using FFG powder and spit patches. I quit shooting after 25 rounds because I ran out of time. Last shot loaded fine and accuracy was OK.

 

[Desert Rat]

The invite to shoot with Lorren68 and me is still open.

Just say when and where, except tomorrow.

 

[mmarkey]

Just say when and where, except tomorrow.

It's a deal send me a PM with an email address and I'll let you know the next time we go. Normally we go on a thursday or friday but if that doesn't work for you maybe we can do a weekend.

 

[mmarkey]

PM Sent

 

[Desert Rat]

Wooohoo! 12 shots today with no patches, wet or dry, between shots. Shots 2, 3 and 4 were difficult to load. After that it got easier. Started with .010 patches, went to .015, ended up with .018 and a fairly tight group. Just need to work it back down to the middle again.
After that, I was shooting pinpong balls at 100 yards with the M1. My son was doing it with his Mosin and the .22 rifle while our friend was using 7mm Mauser. None of those guns are scoped.