Please pray with me.

[JB0704]

How long does it take for a person to come to God? What is an appropriate length of time?

From the point of sincerity, not long at all. Give it a shot.

Ask God about my sincerity. God knows. Ask God if I am honestly seeking a relationship with Him. I'm not being sarcastic. I want you to ask God and report back what God tells you regarding this.

I recon God already filled me in, and I've been telling you for a while now. But, you don't have to be a Christian to know what this thread is about.

 

[HawgJawl]

I recon God already filled me in, and I've been telling you for a while now. But, you don't have to be a Christian to know what this thread is about.

I believe that there is only one God, and I believe that you and I are praying to the same God, so please be very specific and tell me exactly what God said to you concerning my sincerity.

 

[JB0704]

I believe that there is only one God, and I believe that you and I are praying to the same God, so please be very specific and tell me exactly what God said to you concerning my sincerity.

Sure!

I opened your thread a while back when you started it, and, given the fact that I can remember many exchanges you and I had several years ago, as well as recently after your extended hiatus from these forums, I was curious as to what you had to say.

So, I read through the OP, then the 2nd post, and that was when a still, small voice in my head said to me......

Horse apples.

 

[HawgJawl]

Sure!

I opened your thread a while back when you started it, and, given the fact that I can remember many exchanges you and I had several years ago, as well as recently after your extended hiatus from these forums, I was curious as to what you had to say.

So, I read through the OP, then the 2nd post, and that was when a still, small voice in my head said to me......

Horse apples.

Are you certain that it was God who said "Horse Apples" to you as opposed to your own mind generating that opinion.

It's not uncommon for people to believe that God has instructed them to do something when in fact the thought was generated by their own mind. This is more easily recognized when the instruction is clearly against scripture, such as a terrorist attack.

The reason this is important is because I know for certain that I am honestly seeking God's voice. But you don't have to believe me. There are others who have prayed to God concerning my sincerity and have received a different answer from God. Are you certain that God told you this?

 

[JB0704]

Are you certain that it was God who said "Horse Apples" to you as opposed to your own mind generating that opinion.

I wouldn't have been so confident except it was complete with accompaniment:

 

[HawgJawl]

Since God has not yet spoken to me directly, but He reportedly speaks to you "complete with accompaniment", would you please ask Him for the answer to my current dilemma?

The less you know about what is going on, the better, as your answer will be less influenced by your personal opinion on the matter.

My first question, which no one seemed to like, was just a starting point. It was an attempt to weed out people who are unable to separate their own opinion from God's message.

I have a portion of the church who profess that God has spoken to them and He is leading them in a new direction.

I have a portion of the church who are skeptical of this "message from God" and view this new direction as a man-made idea which they are opposed to.

The rest of the church, including myself, are just spectators.

I have people relaying God's will for me which is not surprisingly identical to their own view on the matter.

That is why I am asking you to help pray with me over this issue. I obviously do not want to present you with all the information so that you can make a determination of what you would do. I have plenty of that already. God knows everything that is going on.

Just like so many different denominations can justify their existence with scripture, so can both sides in this situation.

I can't completely trust any of the folks who are trying to convince me to support their position because I can never really know if their own personal opinion is the driving force or if it is God. They all seem to have an agenda. Maybe they are really being led by God. If so, I wish He would speak to me. If not, I hope He will relay a message to me through a few on this forum.

I can more readily trust the word of someone who is not connected with this in any way, especially if they are given information from God that they would otherwise have no way of knowing.

I hope that makes sense.

I understand what you're saying and I appreciate your post.

Let me dig a little deeper toward the core of my question.

Is this change really being led by God?

If it is, I need to be a part of it. If it is not, I do not need to be a part of it. I don't want to concentrate on what I want or what feels right to me. If this change in direction is God's will, then what I personally think about it should not matter.

 

[JB0704]

would you please ask Him for the answer to my current dilemma?

What are your parameters for knowing whether or not I'm telling the truth, and discerning whether or not I am actually hearing from God?

 

[gordon 2]

Since God has not yet spoken to me directly, but He reportedly speaks to you "complete with accompaniment", would you please ask Him for the answer to my current dilemma?

Why even bother to ask the dilemma questions on a christian forum? I mean, as you say... the outlook is biased from the get go?

Ok, then if scripture can be used as you say to justify two divergent spiritual communities...you must look outside of scripture for a resolution.

Do you know of any spiritual community that has more than scripture to resolve dilemma such as yours?

So God tells me that first off you must address your prayers to God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and that God is a community outside of scripture. So you must address prayers in this way.

Now as for me, you can accuse me of being to one camp vs another and that what God tells me is just as valid as the other, which is just another way of saying will the real God please stand up. However, ask yourself, although other communities might know God, do they know Him and his family? in the same manner that you knew your spouse better for getting to know her family?

If a Jehovah's Witness came to your door today with his family, and that person who knocked at your door, let them speak, would you know the person who knocked at your door better than he had come by his lonesome?

Pray to God as He is a family, address Him as a family, know Him as a family and your dilemma will be resolved. That's what God tells me to help you.

Now how does God tell me this? Well he tells me within the spiritual traditions of his born again creation--which is his spiritual Kingdom for his born again people. ( Now that is a mouthful right!) Which brings me to the second thing God tells me in this spiritual reality I occupy with Him and other Christians... He says, " You cannot land a tuna from your neighbor's swimming pool, or know your golf handicap if you ain't on the course." So He tells me to tell you, "Get on the course and cast your lines in My ocean, otherwise your prayers are just play things... just entertainment on this here forum."

So I think what God is saying, is spirituality is only revealing of God, and His will for all of us, if you jump in, as in a total immersion. Otherwise your just teasing a Lion.

 

[HawgJawl]

What are your parameters for knowing whether or not I'm telling the truth, and discerning whether or not I am actually hearing from God?

God knows the intimate details of the claims made by some members of my church. Either God spoke directly to those members and gave them clear direction regarding His will, or He did not.

If your answer is of your own personal opinion, I would not expect you to know any of the specific details. If your answer is from God, you should have a clear understanding of the specific details.

 

[HawgJawl]

Why even bother to ask the dilemma questions on a christian forum? I mean, as you say... the outlook is biased from the get go?

Ok, then if scripture can be used as you say to justify two divergent spiritual communities...you must look outside of scripture for a resolution.

Do you know of any spiritual community that has more than scripture to resolve dilemma such as yours?

So God tells me that first off you must address your prayers to God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and that God is a community outside of scripture. So you must address prayers in this way.

Now as for me, you can accuse me of being to one camp vs another and that what God tells me is just as valid as the other, which is just another way of saying will the real God please stand up. However, ask yourself, although other communities might know God, do they know Him and his family? in the same manner that you knew your spouse better for getting to know her family?

If a Jehovah's Witness came to your door today with his family, and that person who knocked at your door, let them speak, would you know the person who knocked at your door better than he had come by his lonesome?

Pray to God as He is a family, address Him as a family, know Him as a family and your dilemma will be resolved. That's what God tells me to help you.

Now how does God tell me this? Well he tells me within the spiritual traditions of his born again creation--which is his spiritual Kingdom for his born again people. ( Now that is a mouthful right!) Which brings me to the second thing God tells me in this spiritual reality I occupy with Him and other Christians... He says, " You cannot land a tuna from your neighbor's swimming pool, or know your golf handicap if you ain't on the course." So He tells me to tell you, "Get on the course and cast your lines in My ocean, otherwise your prayers are just play things... just entertainment on this here forum."

So I think what God is saying, is spirituality is only revealing of God, and His will for all of us, if you jump in, as in a total immersion. Otherwise your just teasing a Lion.

I'm doing everything I know to do to be receptive to God's will. So far, God has not spoken to me, so I asked my question to people who profess to speak with God daily.

I have been given many reasons why God may not speak to me. I have been given no reasons why God would not speak to anyone else on this forum regarding my question.

 

[stringmusic]

I do believe God exists and I've been talking to Him daily, albeit a one-way conversation so far.

They may be exactly what He knows you need.

 

[JB0704]

If your answer is from God, you should have a clear understanding of the specific details.

What's your basis for that conclusion?

 

[HawgJawl]

If your answer is from God, you should have a clear understanding of the specific details.

What's your basis for that conclusion?

Scripture.

 

[JB0704]

Scripture.

Nope. Scripture does not tell us that god will disclose details of a conversation.

You are trying very hard to make a point. It would be easier if you came out and said what your getting at.....it's painfully obvious, as this exercise is not as clever as you think it is.

 

[HawgJawl]

Nope. Scripture does not tell us that god will disclose details of a conversation.

Throughout scripture, when God communicated with man, the message was specific and clear. There is no indication in scripture that God has trouble getting a message through when He wants to communicate with man. Scripture shows that God is capable of relaying specific information to man which is clearly understood.

I see no scripture where man writes something like "I sense that God may be trying to lead me in a certain direction."

A group of people at my church reported that God spoke clearly to them with specific directions. Either that happened or it did not. If this did happen, I am praying for God to repeat this exact same thing to me or anyone else on this forum.

Also, if this did in fact happen, I would think that all Christians would be extremely interested in this unusual event.

If this did not happen as reported, there are some folks at my church who are either lying or very confused about voices in their heads.

 

[M80]

Throughout scripture, when God communicated with man, the message was specific and clear. There is no indication in scripture that God has trouble getting a message through when He wants to communicate with man. Scripture shows that God is capable of relaying specific information to man which is clearly understood.

I see no scripture where man writes something like "I sense that God may be trying to lead me in a certain direction."

A group of people at my church reported that God spoke clearly to them with specific directions. Either that happened or it did not. If this did happen, I am praying for God to repeat this exact same thing to me or anyone else on this forum.

Also, if this did in fact happen, I would think that all Christians would be extremely interested in this unusual event.

If this did not happen as reported, there are some folks at my church who are either lying or very confused about voices in their heads.

Hawg, I've stayed out of this for a while. I've got a question. Have you ever been saved. (Born again)

 

[HawgJawl]

Hawg, I've stayed out of this for a while. I've got a question. Have you ever been saved. (Born again)

I was raised in a Southern Baptist Church. Sunday school, Sunday evening service, Wednesday night service, Tuesday night choir practice, etc. When I was 13 years old, I felt conviction during the alter call, I walked down the aisle, knelt at the alter, and prayed with my pastor. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, was baptized, and joined the church. When I was 16 - 18 years old, I felt strongly that the Lord might be calling me to be a preacher. I never followed through with it though.

There have been many times in my life when I truly believed that God was guiding me.

 

[M80]

I was raised in a Southern Baptist Church. Sunday school, Sunday evening service, Wednesday night service, Tuesday night choir practice, etc. When I was 13 years old, I felt conviction during the alter call, I walked down the aisle, knelt at the alter, and prayed with my pastor. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, was baptized, and joined the church. When I was 16 - 18 years old, I felt strongly that the Lord might be calling me to be a preacher. I never followed through with it though.

There have been many times in my life when I truly believed that God was guiding me.

Your testimony sounds a lot like mine. I got out of the will of God when I was 16. I was saved at 12 though in a summer revival. I was called to preach when I was 19, surrendered to the calling and been pastoring the past 2 years. I'm 33 now and being in the lords will is the best thing in the world. God has never with an audible voice spoke to me even though I know he could. The Holy Ghost that lives within me leads and guides me. An old preacher man once said "lord, I'll never walk through a door that you haven't opened, but only the ones you do open". The bible says the steps of a righteous man are ordered by The Lord. Some say, how do I know if I'm in the lords will. Think about Jonah, he got out of gods will when he went to tarshish. What happened, it went from the word of The Lord into god sent a strong wind. I don't know your whole testimony, are you in gods will, have been out of his will living like the world for a long while and know all of the sudden your seeking back after The Lord. God made a promise to Abraham and Sarah about Isaac, but had to wait many years to get him. Don't give up on The Lord. Remember Ellijah, it was a small still voice when god spoke.

 

[HawgJawl]

I don't know your whole testimony, are you in gods will, have been out of his will living like the world for a long while and know all of the sudden your seeking back after The Lord.

Some Christians automatically connect the level of ethics and morals in a person's lifestyle directly to the person's level of involvement in a Christian church. I don't see a close connection between the two.

Some of the most ethical and moral people I am aware of were not Christian. Mahatma Gandhi is just one example.

Conversely, some of the most ruthless and unethical people I am aware of were highly religious, at least in appearance.

My point is that my ethics and morals, my desire to live a Christ-like life, was instilled in me from early childhood and does not change each time my level of faith in God changes.

When I go through stages of disbelief, my lifestyle does not change. I don't automatically start living wickedly when I step away from the church. The biggest change is my perspective of the level of involvement of God in our everyday life. I begin to see normal coincidence as opposed to an act of God. I also feel an increased need for human charity when I begin to question whether or not God is going to take care of the problem Himself.

My seeking God right now has nothing to do with "hitting rock bottom and needing God to save me from myself". I am opening my mind up the the very real possibility that I am wrong when I disbelieve. I have felt, in the past, what I thought to be God leading me. I also realize that this "feeling" is not 100% reliable because many people have "felt" that God was leading them to do things which were contrary to scripture.

I am completely open to God working in my life. All I want is for God to make His presence known to me. I'm not asking for a miraculous event, even though some members of my church claim that they received one. All I'm asking for is the same amount of contact from God that makes so many others absolutely convinced that God is communicating with them or leading them.

 

[Israel]

Faith is what pleases him.
Have you never thought it peculiar that Ghandi said this:

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

Perhaps, in some innermost place Ghandi had set Jesus apart as Lord, I really don't know.
But I know that the many I have met personally that assent to the "wonderful" moral teachings, the gracious words, the acts of kindness and forbearance...balk...often, at the complete and utter plainness with which Jesus commanded obedience and acceptance of the truth of his being. His claim upon our soul is absolute and unwavering.
This is what grace is for. That a man may receive that truth, find himself pinioned to a stake...and yet...because of that grace find liberty, peace, communion, life and joy there.
You view a "progression" as stated:

"I begin to see normal coincidence as opposed to an act of God."

This is precisely not as things are.
Everything has a motive, everything has an origin, everything is precisely not "accidental", and everything has a consequence...words, deeds, thoughts and even...unbelief.
The temporary paralysis to which this understanding leads...passes.
And we learn, perhaps, grace is not so I can just blithely imagine everything I say or do pleases God because I am his, but because I am his...or you, or any, that we will be able to bear our chastening when administered as necessary...for grace also tells us God...is Daddy...who loves us...to our good.
Through Jesus Christ.
The Lord.