Reduced recoil hand load for 30-30

[The Rodney]

Took my 10-year-old to the range today and he went through half a box of 3030 Remington managed recoil loads. He’s finally excited enough and confident to take his first year this year… Or at least try to. We need to work on marksmanship for me to let him shoot, but he is grouping 4” at 25 yards and getting better. These loads shoot pretty well and the recoil is manageable but I’d like to hand load some for him. Right now I only have CFE223 and WIN760. Does anyone have a recipe for a reduced recoil 3030 load for a lever gun? Hodgdon has a 60% formula using their 4895 but I can only find that online for very expensive prices. I’m currently loading for 243 and 308 and would love to find a powder they could do both 3030 and one of these other calibers. Right now I intend to buy the Hornady FTX 160 grain bullets for him to practice and to hunt with. I’d like to see him shoot about another 40 rounds on paper before I take him out for the big day. I usually hunt in the thick so shots at 40 yards are pretty common and I think the reduced recoil load with this bullet should do fine. If all else fails I’ve got four boxes of factory hunting loads.

 

[trial&error]

Not my area but according to https://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_30-30_loads.html it seems your aiming for 1900 fps or so with the 160 gr bullet. Hodgdon https://hodgdon.com/cfe-223/ the starting load is only 300 fps faster than chuck recommends for the 30-30

 

[chuckdog]

I don't know if you can find either, but they're worth the trouble for younger shooters.

Accurate Arms 5744 and the now discontinued but still found IMR SR4759 allows reduced loads that still pack enough punch to cleanly take game.

I'm a long time user of SR4759 and have used it with excellent results in .308 Winchester. Lower recoil with deadly performance.



I have little experience with loading 30-30, but it appears more common powders like IMR 4227, 4831, 4350, and 4198 can safely get you in the reduced columns using 150 gr jacketed bullets without losing effectiveness. Source: Lee 2nd Edition.

Cowboy action loads are simply not something I'd want to use on deer size game.

 

[1eyefishing]

I would think about lack of expansion with a heavier, slower bullet that is slowed even further by reduced load. Heavier also increases recoil.
Have you thought about loading a 150 grain ballistic tip for it's increased frangebility? One in the chamber, one in the magazine tube. You'll be there for any additional follow up shots, plus he's probably not ready to crank out 3 or more rounds quickly...
I load 125 BTs for my 14" contender. Works well...

 

[bullethead]

I've loaded down '06 to 30/30 levels but I used a Hornady 130gr bullet when doing so.
Like 1eye mentions above the slower the speed the less bullet expansion and the 150gr+ bullets designed for deer sized game are needed to be driven to reasonable velocities in order to work.
I would try using the 130gr Hornady Spire Points and keeping velocity in the 2200 to 2400 fps range. The recoil reduction will be noticeable and it will expand and kill well. One in the chamber and one in the mag since they are pointed.
At 11yrs old, my Son used that bullet at 2400ish fps in the 06. He shot groundhogs all summer and buck and doe during the season. In fact he used that load for 4 years with shots on deer out to 150yds and they died no different than they do with full power loads and heavier bullets.

And/Or Hornady makes a 110gr Round nose.

 

[chuckdog]

Thutty Thutty designated bullets should be fine at lower velocities. .308, 06', and the like bullets ain't likely to work well at all with MV's below 2K/fps

 

[SC Hunter]

To help with the marksmanship let him shoot a bolt action 22 rifle or single shot and really focus on mechanics. Put a clay target up out there and let him shoot it, it will make it more exciting for him and wont get old so quick.

As far a 30-30 bullets for reloading I'm of no help.

 

[bullethead]

Thutty Thutty designated bullets should be fine at lower velocities. .308, 06', and the like bullets ain't likely to work well at all with MV's below 2K/fps

Under ideal distance conditions yes.
If you start at 1900fps muzzle velocity for a 150gr RN you are down to 1500fps at 100yds.
Energy drops from from 1200ft lbs to 780 at those distances.
Going full speed(2400fps) that bullet has a 500 fps advantage and a 700/500 ft lbs advantage.
Basically at "normal" 30/30 shot distances the reduced loads with normal weight bullets have Muzzle Velocities and Energies comparable to what Full power loads have at 100yards. In essence the reduced loads are just getting started near optimal performance and quickly go down hill after that.

 

[bullethead]

The lighter 130gr bullets driven at normal 30/30 velocities start out with and retain a very good amount of velocity and energy at the usual 30/30 shot distances. And recoil is reduced.
I used the 2400fps chart for reference where the bullet is still going 1800fps and has 1000ft lb of energy at 200 yards!

 

[Bobby Bigtime]

Years ago I worked up some loads for my Savage 340. My old brain recalls some where abouts 35 or 36 grains of 4350 behind the 125 grain hollow point. It was very mild and did kill deer. The factory load with the same bullet had more snort but was also fairly mild on the recoil side. Glad you and your boy are out having fun.

 

[bullethead]

Here are charts for a 150gr RN

 

[chuckdog]

Under ideal distance conditions yes.
If you start at 1900fps muzzle velocity for a 150gr RN you are down to 1500fps at 100yds.
Energy drops from from 1200ft lbs to 780 at those distances.
Going full speed(2400fps) that bullet has a 500 fps advantage and a 700/500 ft lbs advantage.
Basically at "normal" 30/30 shot distances the reduced loads with normal weight bullets have Muzzle Velocities and Energies comparable to what Full power loads have at 100yards. In essence the reduced loads are just getting started near optimal performance and quickly go down hill after that.

As with anything there's no free lunch.

If he keeps the shots 50 & under it looks like the 160 FTX will likely be fine.


Some of the specs on the flex tip bullets are a bit surprising.



I'm definitely behind in keeping up with today's high tech bullets.

 

[fi8shmasty]

I piddled with low recoil load in a 243 wssm. 7 grains of powder and the bullet would go through a 2x4. I just wanted something slower and less noisey where I hunted

 

[The Rodney]

This is a wealth of good information. New to reloading I was not thinking muzzle velocity and the need for ethical energy while hunting, very sure we will max at 50yds. I like that trajectory information I am buying that book, appreciate the pics. Well now all I need to do is buy some overpriced powder! Those 160gr FTX are available on gunbroker some of the others are hard to find. Thanks for the help friends!

 

[bullethead]

This is a wealth of good information. New to reloading I was not thinking muzzle velocity and the need for ethical energy while hunting, very sure we will max at 50yds. I like that trajectory information I am buying that book, appreciate the pics. Well now all I need to do is buy some overpriced powder! Those 160gr FTX are available on gunbroker some of the others are hard to find. Thanks for the help friends!

That is from Hornady's 4th Manual. It was a 2 Volume set.
1st has load recipes and the 2nd Ballistic Tables. They can still be found.

 

[The Rodney]

Data is king! Found some Ramshot TAC online and read the article trial&error posted. And looks like some CFE might work too.

 

[Railroader]

I will just add that letting the boy shoot a .22 bolt rifle while focusing on accuracy is as good or better than the deer rifle.

My grandson, The Kid, has a few thousand .22 rounds behind him "fired for accuracy".

When I transitioned him to .223 and the .350L, it was absolutely seamless. At 9 next month, he'll be the first to tell you that "a rifle's a rifle.."

I am 105% confident in his ability to make a good shot when it counts...





That's him and his .350 Axis Youth, busting clays at 100 yds...Time spent with a kid is priceless. As you know. Here's hoping they kill a couple good uns!!

 

[The Rodney]

Thanks Railroader! Like his older brothers he started with a BB gun then the .22. The 30 30 is the one my dad gave me at 16. I shot my first deer with it and now two of my sons have taken their first deer with it. Hoping this is his year. Nice deer stand! I never had a grandad he is a lucky boy.

 

[Railroader]

Thanks Railroader! Like his older brothers he started with a BB gun then the .22. The 30 30 is the one my dad gave me at 16. I shot my first deer with it and now two of my sons have taken their first deer with it. Hoping this is his year. Nice deer stand! I never had a grandad he is a lucky boy.

The stories that rifle could tell!! I love it. I wanna see the pix when that Ol' Thutty-Thutty produces yet another "first"!

 

[Philbow]

Midwayusa.com has bullet "seconds" on sale and the have 160 grain flex tips on sale.

Factory Second Bullets 30 Cal (308 Diameter) 160 Grain Flexible (midwayusa.com)

they also have 140 grain flex tips on sale but they seem to be monometal, not lead core.

Factory Second Bullets 30 Cal (308 Diameter) 140 Grain Flexible (midwayusa.com)

They also have full price Hornady flex tips so you could buy the seconds for practice and the "firsts" for hunting