Medium-Bore Woods Hammer: A Plunge Into Reloading (Update: Ready to Hunt)

RamblinWreck88

Useles Billy ain’t got nothing on ME !
I've mentioned in a few other threads that I recently picked up a CVA Scout in 35 Whelen, but this is really the first time I've set up a rifle for myself, not to mention the first time I have done any reloading, and it has been a great learning experience, so I wanted to continue that learning process by starting this thread... I intend this to be a living thread, and I freely admit that I have a lot to learn, so y'all please chime in if I'm doing something wrong or if there are any beginner reloading pitfalls I should be aware of. And pardon the dumb questions.

The idea was to have a rifle that I can carry all over the woods, in any conditions I'm willing to endure, through anything I'm willing to crawl through, from North GA to the Coastal Plain, and kill any critter in Georgia with authority, from any shot angle I feel comfortable with, and from any range I feel comfortable with, primarily sub-100 yards, but with the ability to reach out to ~200 yards, maybe more. And all of this should be as cost-effective as possible.

As bonuses, I love the simplicity and length-efficiency of a single shot, as well as the one-shot ethos. I also have been pretty impressed with 35-caliber cartridges. And I have been looking for an excuse to get into reloading. It turned out that the CVA's are of pretty good quality, with a pretty decent trigger. With that, I ordered the rifle and reloading equipment.

I originally thought I'd like to put a 2-7x on it, and was disappointed to have barely missed Midway USA's $200 deal on Leupold 2-7x's. But as I waited for the rifle to arrive, I found a new-old-stock VX-1 at 2014 prices + 15% discount, so I figured that 3-9x would work just fine:

20230715_174424.jpg

After much delay, courtesy of FedEx, the rifle arrived:
20230721_190624.jpg

As another bonus, the FFL surprised me by having large rifle primers, as well as IMR 4064. Evidently IMR 4064 is better suited for heavier .358 projectiles, but here we are:

20230721_195410.jpg

Once the DNZ one-piece mounts arrived, I mounted the scope to my proper eye relief:

1690467974301.jpeg

Yesterday, the rest of my reloading equipment came in (Lee hand press, pacesetter die set, shell length gauge, etc.). I have several brands of brass that has been put through my M1 rifle, but being new to this thing and not knowing what to expect, I decided to try out some PPU brass. I resized, decapped, and chamfered 50 pieces, which seemed to turn out pretty good (I think). I was absolutely giddy when I resized the first piece:

1690468357321.jpeg

Next Steps:
1- Take some calipers to the brass and look for any obvious issues
2- Clean the brass up a bit more with the ol' Dawn & water method.
3- Prime enough brass for a range session
4- Charge brass starting at my manual's guide for 200-gr jacketed bullets, beginning with starting loads and working up. Loading 3 for each batch.
5- Seat bullet to specified OAL (TBD)
6- Go to the range and record data for each batch.
7- Rinse and repeat... The goal for now is to push a 200-gr Interlock SP a little below max for IMR 4064, a touch below 2560 fps, which is basically a .358 Winchester load. With that load as a foundation, I may work up another load based on what I learn.

Other Considerations:
-Length is still about shorter than a 30-06 w/ 22" even with 25" barrel on this one, and I am holding onto the option to shorten this barrel, depending on how I like it in the field and whatever else I learn.
-.358 projectiles are a bit limited in selection and my preference (225 gr PT) was unavailable everywhere I've seen. I'm continuing to explore options here, and I welcome suggestions.

Questions:
1- Is there any need to crimp my loads for a single shot in this intended role? I've read different things here and there... I am concerned with the effect crimping would have on the thinner neck of the resized '06 brass.

2- I'm really not sure how far to seat the bullet... I know I want to be right on the lands for a single shot, I just don't know how I get that length, though that's mostly because I haven't dug into it. I take it that I should nail down OAL before attempting to finalize powder charge? I want to isolate my variables and whatnot.

3- After I fire the starting load and verify that there are no pressure signs or other alarms, how much should I increase my next powder charge by?
 
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35 Whelen

Senior Member
What Reloading Guide/Manual are you using? Nosler Reloading Guides have step by step "Tips for Bullet Seating" to determine the Proper Bullet Seating Depth for YOUR chamber.

By the way - Great choice of caliber!
 

RamblinWreck88

Useles Billy ain’t got nothing on ME !
What Reloading Guide/Manual are you using? Nosler Reloading Guides have step by step "Tips for Bullet Seating" to determine the Proper Bullet Seating Depth for YOUR chamber.

By the way - Great choice of caliber!
I've got the Lee Modern Reloading Manual; it has an instructional section that has been helpful, but I admit I have not dug deep enough into it to get to the bullet seating part. I will check my manual as well as online, and see what I can find. If it comes to it, I'll get the Nosler book.
 
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bighonkinjeep

Senior Member
Cool thread, I leaned to hand load back before the internet by reading "Modern Reloading by Richard Lee" and buying their anniversary kit.
Read everything but the data twice and keep the manual handy and you should have a pretty good grasp of the basics.
Your project hits home for me because of its similarity to my path.
The Nosler manual has some great info including most accurate powder tested and most accurate load tested. The Seirra manual has accuracy loads listed. Both have phone numbers so you can talk to a ballistic tech and glean good info.
I would recco.end a persuit accuracy rather than velocity because the .35 is a hammer and should meet your stated goals easily even with a starting charge weight if it proves to be accurate.
You've got a great project started man.
Good Luck
 

bighonkinjeep

Senior Member
Make sure to check and trim the brass to proper legnth AFTER sizing and before priming.
Spending time on the rest of the reloading process only to get to the range and the ammo doesnt fit and the bolt/ action wont close is really a bummer.
If you use the lee case length gauge it will ensure the brass will be the proper length.
I dont shoot a single shot but dont see any need to crimp as I dont crimp for bolt actions.
Good luck
 

Bobby Bigtime

Senior Member
I use the hand press exclusively there is nothing out there that has the feel you get from the hand press and the connection with every round. The Lee quick trim is a neat little gizmo that works super well with the hand press for trimming and chamfering your cases. Good luck!
 

RamblinWreck88

Useles Billy ain’t got nothing on ME !
Make sure to check and trim the brass to proper legnth AFTER sizing and before priming.
Spending time on the rest of the reloading process only to get to the range and the ammo doesnt fit and the bolt/ action wont close is really a bummer.
If you use the lee case length gauge it will ensure the brass will be the proper length.
I dont shoot a single shot but dont see any need to crimp as I dont crimp for bolt actions.
Good luck
After some effort, I got the length gauge fully screwed into the trimmer after resizing last night, and I used it on all of my resized brass, but none of them needed trimming.

Out of 20 cases, I'm seeing anywhere from 2.464" to 2.476." A bit short of the standard 2.494" but it is resized '06 brass afterall.

What I'm seeing initially is that with an C.O.A.L of around 3.30," I'm only getting around 0.195" of seating depth with no sign whatsoever of engaging the lands... Rule of thumb seems to be to seat to at least the bullet diameter, so that would leave me with a bit of jump.

Thanks for the breakdown on the reloading manuals, by the way, and I am glad to hear that I'm not doing a disservice by not pushing the cartridge close to max velocity.
 
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Long Cut

Senior Member
Welcome to the club! You’re going to love these guns.

I seat my bullets .002 off the lands. It’s worked for most all bullets minus TTSX, they like further back it seems.

To find that, take a bullet and spent brass. Find a bullet/brass combo that has enough neck tension that you can push a bullet into the brass, but the bullet doesn’t freely fall out.

Now “chamber” the round and measure. Do that a couple times and see what length you consistently get.

It’s super easy to do it single shots, bolt actions are more difficult.

28E54289-817A-4EE1-8F8D-9D84FDEDB0DC.jpeg
 

RamblinWreck88

Useles Billy ain’t got nothing on ME !
Welcome to the club! You’re going to love these guns.

I seat my bullets .002 off the lands. It’s worked for most all bullets minus TTSX, they like further back it seems.

To find that, take a bullet and spent brass. Find a bullet/brass combo that has enough neck tension that you can push a bullet into the brass, but the bullet doesn’t freely fall out.

Now “chamber” the round and measure. Do that a couple times and see what length you consistently get.

It’s super easy to do it single shots, bolt actions are more difficult.

View attachment 1243251
Your own project with your rifle provided some affirmation of that choice just as I started digging into them.

As I have no spent Whelen brass, I cannot readily use this method. But what I've done so far is to make a dummy round with the bullet barely seated (~0.19," as I recall) and chamber it to see where it engages the lands. With the bullet barely seated, the C.O.A.L. is still below max for the cartridge, and shows no sign of engaging the lands.

Some of my research shows that most Whelen chambers have a good bit of freebore, putting the lands a bit further out than is typical. Whether or not that is true, based on my initial results it seems it is simply not possible to both seat the bullet to a depth equal to it's diameter (this seems to be the rule of thumb) and come anywhere close to the lands, at least not with a 200-gr lead-jacketed bullet. So what I plan to do is calculate what my overall length should be based on 0.358" seating depth and run with that for the first trial.
 

Long Cut

Senior Member
Your own project with your rifle provided some affirmation of that choice just as I started digging into them.

As I have no spent Whelen brass, I cannot readily use this method. But what I've done so far is to make a dummy round with the bullet barely seated (~0.19," as I recall) and chamber it to see where it engages the lands. With the bullet barely seated, the C.O.A.L. is still below max for the cartridge, and shows no sign of engaging the lands.

Some of my research shows that most Whelen chambers have a good bit of freebore, putting the lands a bit further out than is typical. Whether or not that is true, based on my initial results it seems it is simply not possible to both seat the bullet to a depth equal to it's diameter (this seems to be the rule of thumb) and come anywhere close to the lands, at least not with a 200-gr lead-jacketed bullet. So what I plan to do is calculate what my overall length should be based on 0.358" seating depth and run with that for the first trial.

I do apologize to your bank account for the “encouragement” lol

I’m glad to see you went with the DNZ one piece, a much better (and lighter) upgrade over factory. That was going to be my first recommendation.

It sounds like you’re off to a good start. I’ve never reloaded for .35 Whelan and I’m a novice reloader myself, so that’s all I’ve got unfortunately.

When I first started reloading, I copied factory/manufacturer COAL, then used the fire-formed brass using the method I described earlier to find my lands.
I’d verify a loaded bullet with sharpie colored tips to ensure no contact was being made, before loading more.

The only thing with single shots and reloading you must understand, is that pressure signs are very subtle.
We won’t have a sticky bolt to warn us for over pressure signs, you must observe for blown out primers.
As long as you stay within manufacturers recommendations, you’ll be alright. Just something to remember to look out for.
 

bullgator

Senior Member
I’ll offer two things. First, I’m not sure if I read it right, but did you size before cleaning your brass? If so you run the risk of scratching the insides of your dies. Clean first.
Secondly, a rule of thumb is to seat at least as much of the bullet to equal the width of the bullet. In this case you want to seat at least .358” of bullet into the case neck.

Enjoying this thread.
 

RamblinWreck88

Useles Billy ain’t got nothing on ME !
I’ll offer two things. First, I’m not sure if I read it right, but did you size before cleaning your brass? If so you run the risk of scratching the insides of your dies. Clean first.
Secondly, a rule of thumb is to seat at least as much of the bullet to equal the width of the bullet. In this case you want to seat at least .358” of bullet into the case neck.

Enjoying this thread.
Dang, I did resize before cleaning... I figured it would be better to deprime first, which also sizes with my dies, but Maybe next time I can figure a way to do that without resizing (even if I need to buy new stuff).

Glad to hear affirmation that 0.358" is a good seating depth... My brass is a tad short for now, as I mentioned, so I will seat based on a ideal 2.494" case length.

Thanks for the tips, and I'm glad you're enjoying the journey with me.
 

RamblinWreck88

Useles Billy ain’t got nothing on ME !
I do apologize to your bank account for the “encouragement” lol

I’m glad to see you went with the DNZ one piece, a much better (and lighter) upgrade over factory. That was going to be my first recommendation.

It sounds like you’re off to a good start. I’ve never reloaded for .35 Whelan and I’m a novice reloader myself, so that’s all I’ve got unfortunately.

When I first started reloading, I copied factory/manufacturer COAL, then used the fire-formed brass using the method I described earlier to find my lands.
I’d verify a loaded bullet with sharpie colored tips to ensure no contact was being made, before loading more.

The only thing with single shots and reloading you must understand, is that pressure signs are very subtle.
We won’t have a sticky bolt to warn us for over pressure signs, you must observe for blown out primers.
As long as you stay within manufacturers recommendations, you’ll be alright. Just something to remember to look out for.
No worries, I had put aside a chunk of guilt-free money for a BULA M21DMR before I decided to take a more pragmatic route, so I'm actually still under budget!

The simplicity of a one-piece mount just made sense... I recalled your thread, and the reviews checked out from there, so I went with it.

I definitely borrowed the Sharpie technique... I seated the bullet way out, and after multiple tries, I saw no sign of the lands on the bullet. Evidently it's a common issue with the Whelen... You and your long 6.5mm bullets...

Definitely paying close attention for pressure signs. I downloaded the Nosler book, which has some good pictures, and will be checking each round.
 

bullgator

Senior Member
Dang, I did resize before cleaning... I figured it would be better to deprime first, which also sizes with my dies, but Maybe next time I can figure a way to do that without resizing (even if I need to buy new stuff).

Glad to hear affirmation that 0.358" is a good seating depth... My brass is a tad short for now, as I mentioned, so I will seat based on a ideal 2.494" case length.

Thanks for the tips, and I'm glad you're enjoying the journey with me.
You can get a universal decapping die that will pop out primers for almost all cases, including handguns. Just pop the primers and then clean before sizing. Putting dirty brass in your sizing dies can scratch the polished or carbide die walls.
 

RamblinWreck88

Useles Billy ain’t got nothing on ME !
You can get a universal decapping die that will pop out primers for almost all cases, including handguns. Just pop the primers and then clean before sizing. Putting dirty brass in your sizing dies can scratch the polished or carbide die walls.
That makes sense, and that's one if the things I like about this so far... I might not think of it initially, but it makes sense when I hear it. I'll look for one of those decapping dies tomorrow.
 

Big7

The Oracle
I've mentioned in a few other threads that I recently picked up a CVA Scout in 35 Whelen, but this is really the first time I've set up a rifle for myself, not to mention the first time I have done any reloading, and it has been a great learning experience, so I wanted to continue that learning process by starting this thread... I intend this to be a living thread, and I freely admit that I have a lot to learn, so y'all please chime in if I'm doing something wrong or if there are any beginner reloading pitfalls I should be aware of. And pardon the dumb questions.

The idea was to have a rifle that I can carry all over the woods, in any conditions I'm willing to endure, through anything I'm willing to crawl through, from North GA to the Coastal Plain, and kill any critter in Georgia with authority, from any shot angle I feel comfortable with, and from any range I feel comfortable with, primarily sub-100 yards, but with the ability to reach out to ~200 yards, maybe more. And all of this should be as cost-effective as possible.

As bonuses, I love the simplicity and length-efficiency of a single shot, as well as the one-shot ethos. I also have been pretty impressed with 35-caliber cartridges. And I have been looking for an excuse to get into reloading. It turned out that the CVA's are of pretty good quality, with a pretty decent trigger. With that, I ordered the rifle and reloading equipment.

I originally thought I'd like to put a 2-7x on it, and was disappointed to have barely missed Midway USA's $200 deal on Leupold 2-7x's. But as I waited for the rifle to arrive, I found a new-old-stock VX-1 at 2014 prices + 15% discount, so I figured that 3-9x would work just fine:

View attachment 1242911

After much delay, courtesy of FedEx, the rifle arrived:
View attachment 1242912

As another bonus, the FFL surprised me by having large rifle primers, as well as IMR 4064. Evidently IMR 4064 is better suited for heavier .358 projectiles, but here we are:

View attachment 1242913

Once the DNZ one-piece mounts arrived, I mounted the scope to my proper eye relief:

View attachment 1242915

Yesterday, the rest of my reloading equipment came in (Lee hand press, pacesetter die set, shell length gauge, etc.). I have several brands of brass that has been put through my M1 rifle, but being new to this thing and not knowing what to expect, I decided to try out some PPU brass. I resized, decapped, and chamfered 50 pieces, which seemed to turn out pretty good (I think). I was absolutely giddy when I resized the first piece:

View attachment 1242916

Next Steps:
1- Take some calipers to the brass and look for any obvious issues
2- Clean the brass up a bit more with the ol' Dawn & water method.
3- Prime enough brass for a range session
4- Charge brass starting at my manual's guide for 200-gr jacketed bullets, beginning with starting loads and working up. Loading 3 for each batch.
5- Seat bullet to specified OAL (TBD)
6- Go to the range and record data for each batch.
7- Rinse and repeat... The goal for now is to push a 200-gr Interlock SP a little below max for IMR 4064, a touch below 2560 fps, which is basically a .358 Winchester load. With that load as a foundation, I may work up another load based on what I learn.

Other Considerations:
-Length is still about shorter than a 30-06 w/ 22" even with 25" barrel on this one, and I am holding onto the option to shorten this barrel, depending on how I like it in the field and whatever else I learn.
-.358 projectiles are a bit limited in selection and my preference (225 gr PT) was unavailable everywhere I've seen. I'm continuing to explore options here, and I welcome suggestions.

Questions:
1- Is there any need to crimp my loads for a single shot in this intended role? I've read different things here and there... I am concerned with the effect crimping would have on the thinner neck of the resized '06 brass.
2- I'm really not sure how far to seat the bullet... I know I want to be right on the lands for a single shot, I just don't know how I get that length, though that's mostly because I haven't dug into it. I take it that I should nail down OAL before attempting to finalize powder charge? I want to isolate my variables and whatnot.
3- After I fire the starting load and verify that there are no pressure signs or other alarms, how much should I increase my next powder charge by?
1 NO. Zero need to full length size in a single shot except the first time OR if you will be shooting in more than one gun. It's actually better for your brass life if you don't..

2a 100 different ways to do that but I'll try to find you a link for the way I do mine. To much to type on a phone. (you will need a majik marker, neck sized case with no primer, plastic mallet, bore cleaning rod, a bullet and calipers)

3 with that 4064 powder and that case capacity, I would go 1 grain in a hunting rifle myself but I suggest you go 1/2 grain until you learn the ropes. If you don't go past published max in a new rifle, it is perfectly safe. Might not be the most accurate but it will be safe. (PS.. If you are going to go over published max charge, you probably want to do that in a sturdy single shot if you just have to.) :bounce:
 
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