A lot of good information but decided to go with the 8x57 mm caliber and a new rifle., I decided to get the Sig Sauer 100 Classic XT Rifle in 8x57. It has a 1 MOA guarantee and all the reviews reported excellent accuracy. Cherokee Gun and Pawn had it for $690 and had one available so I took it. I read a 196-200 grain 8x57 bullet at over 2500 fps compares well with a 30-06 energy at least to 300 yards. I read that the 30-06 does better with the lighter bullets and the 8x57 does better with the heavier bullets whatever that means. I realize I need to practice but I have 2 years to do it and have a variety of ranges and situations planned. The custom ammo is under $70 for 20 cartridges but plan to practice mostly with the ton of surplus ammo and B&S SPCE ammo I have. They both shoot about 2500 fps with 196 grain bullets like the hunting load I am going to use so I am thinking I can get by with say 5 boxes of the expensive hunting ammo. The deciding factor was not having to stock another caliber, use the ammo I have plus I want to keep the gun I get. I also wanted a well constructed engineered gun and the Sig Sauer looks impressive to me and a good value for the money especially in these inflated gun prices. Liked it better than the Savage or Tikka maybe because of my German ancestors. Anyone of them would be nice to have. Still want the Ruger Guide gun in 30-06 but too expensive and not available. Maybe later. Probably get skunked anyway but hopefully one or more members of our hunting party can harvest a bull elk. Thanks again for all the input. Has been informative and a lot of fun reading the posts. Suggest we close the thread.
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Rifle and Factory Load for Elk
- Thread starter JR924
- Start date
treemanjohn
Banned
Don't over think it. The number one elk rifle I saw in Colorado was a 30-30. A 30.06, 7mm mag, 300 win mag, 270... I killed 3 with a 26/06 out 300+++
Shoot what you shoot the best
Shoot what you shoot the best
SC Hunter
Senior Member
Congrats on the new gun purchase! If you are happy I'm happy and I hope you have excellent luck and loads of fun! What scope are you going to go with?
rosewood
Senior Member
Since u got a new gun, it probably already had mounts for a scope, just need some good glass now. I think a lot of our concern was using a WWII work horse that would need work to get ready.
Good luck!
Rosewood
Good luck!
Rosewood
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Lilly001
Senior Member
You may already know this but 8x57 Mausers came in two bore sizes.
The old, WW1 rifles were .318 I believe and are designated 8x57 J.
The WW2 rifles were .323 and designated 8x57 JS.
This is one of the reasons most American made 8x57 ammo is loaded to low pressures in case a bore/bullet mismatch occurs.
A modern .323 8x57 with full power loads is roughly equivalent to a 30-06 IMHO.
The old, WW1 rifles were .318 I believe and are designated 8x57 J.
The WW2 rifles were .323 and designated 8x57 JS.
This is one of the reasons most American made 8x57 ammo is loaded to low pressures in case a bore/bullet mismatch occurs.
A modern .323 8x57 with full power loads is roughly equivalent to a 30-06 IMHO.
rosewood
Senior Member
I did not know that. Good info!!
Lilly001
Senior Member
As I recall it had to do with the treaty that ended WW1.
To make new rifles, to rearm, Germany had to change the bore size.
I have a commercial model made with the .323 bore that my granddaddy sent back after the war when he was assigned to post-war government. They confiscated a lot of guns and he sent a few nice ones back.
Mine a shooter for sure after I had it drilled for a modern scope mount and the bolt handle turned. Also the safety lever had to be modified.
I shoot 150 grain handloads out of mine well under an inch at 100 if I do my part.
Nimrod71
Senior Member
JR the new rifle should do the trick. Takes care of the questions I had. Next will be getting a good scope and I advise carrying a spare one just in case the one of the rifle gets damaged and they do. My horse fell and we rolled down the mountain a ways, I was lucky my scope was OK. A friend was climbing over a big rock and dropped his rifle about 2 ft, landed on the scope and broke the front lens. He had to drive 150 miles to get another one. The next thing is plenty of practice. My sure you go all the way out to 350 yds.
Good point. I did check and all my 3 guns and ammo are 8x57 JS. Funny is I just checked the Web a few hours after I ordered the last blued gun that Cherokee Gun and Pawn could get and one website for the Sig Sauer 8x57 says it is no longer in stock and the other raised the price $50. I got a good deal if you can call any purchase a deal ($690 vs $767) in these inflationary times. Note Cherokee did have 3 stainless steel models for about $830 they could get but I went with the cheaper blued model. I wish one the big ammo companies would make a good elk/moose load. Right now it is European, Handload or USA deer/pig load. Going to use my Nikon Monarch 2.5x10 scope off my Knight Disc Elite. When the wife calms downs in a few months, I would like to buy a Leupold VX-3HD 3.5-10 x40 MM scope assuming that is better glass. The Sig Sauer uses Remington 700 scope bases. My Ruger and Knight came with scope bases so probably have to purchase them for the Sig Sauer. Thanks
John
John
Nimrod71, a good reason to get the Leupold and keep the Nikon as backup. When you are buying a new gun, very hard to get off the computer and quit talking about it even after the purchase. Got nothing done today except eating and researching, talking about, and buying the elk gun. Afraid it will get worse when the hunt is near.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
I've hunted out West and in Canada.
I've learned a few things from the guides.
1. Hold on Hair, not on Air.
Most ranges are 300 yards and under. Guides have told me that a lot of clients over shoot the game because they have never seen an animal at 300yds where they normally hunt and think it is 500yds away.
2. Practice until you reach your maximum effectivene range.
The rifles and cartridges are often more capable than the shooter.
3. If an animal is too far, get closer. Lots of animals are killed with a bow and arrow. Rifles shoot much farther.
I've learned a few things from the guides.
1. Hold on Hair, not on Air.
Most ranges are 300 yards and under. Guides have told me that a lot of clients over shoot the game because they have never seen an animal at 300yds where they normally hunt and think it is 500yds away.
2. Practice until you reach your maximum effectivene range.
The rifles and cartridges are often more capable than the shooter.
3. If an animal is too far, get closer. Lots of animals are killed with a bow and arrow. Rifles shoot much farther.
Evergreen
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
One other thing, go ahead and start exercising now lol, go to the local high-school and walk up and down the bleachers until you can't then do it again tomorrow, and so on until your comfortable then do it with a weighted pack on your back everyday Im not saying your out of shape, but if your a flat land guy, mountains will be something completely different, last thing you want on a once in a lifetime hunt is to not physically be able to move after the first day
GunnSmokeer
Senior Member
I'll bet that not 3% of men who regularly hunt big game are skillful enough to keep a group at 300 yards that would fit over an Elk's "kill zone" with an iron sighted standard military rifle.
You made a good decision to acquire another rifle -- a dedicated hunting rifle made for use with the scope --and you will have a scope on it.
As for the caliber, the 8 x 57 Mauser is perfectly fine for big game hunting up to 300 yards. It's not common for elk hunting in the West, but then again many elk hunters want to be "prepared for" a 600 yard shot; they won't limit themselves to just 300 yards.
You made a good decision to acquire another rifle -- a dedicated hunting rifle made for use with the scope --and you will have a scope on it.
As for the caliber, the 8 x 57 Mauser is perfectly fine for big game hunting up to 300 yards. It's not common for elk hunting in the West, but then again many elk hunters want to be "prepared for" a 600 yard shot; they won't limit themselves to just 300 yards.
GunnSmokeer
Senior Member
This Federal load is rather weak, at only 2240 f.p.s. with a 170 gr. bullet,
But European made ammo is available that will push a 180 grain bullet at 2600 ft./second. Norma has such a load.
That stuff cost about three dollars per round, however!
That European ammo could be used to zero at 250 yards and your rifle would be no greater than 5 inches high at mid range trajectory (around 150 yards) and it would be no lower than 5 inches below your aiming point at 300 yards.
The bullet would still have over 1000 foot-pounds of kinetic energy even at 300 yards.
aabradley82
Senior Member
If you’re wanting to stay 8mm, and you seem to have an affection for the old military rifles, why not get one of the many that have been sporterized/customized already. You can usually find some of the old workhorses that were done correctly years ago for about the same money as a new budget Gun. Might even have a decent scope. I’ve got 2 springfields that are done very well for less than 4 bills each. The maulers are out there too.
rosewood
Senior Member
See post#21, he did.
leoparddog
Senior Member
Congrats on the new gun. Get some rings and a scope on it, even if used. I have a few 8mm Mausers that I shoot once in a while and I reload so that helps. You may consider getting a small reloading set like a Lee set up and loading your own ammo. Do not throw away your commercial 8mm brass, save it for reloading. If you use the custom load shop you mentioned, he may cut you a break on costs if you provide the once fired brass.
bighonkinjeep
Senior Member
Once in a lifetime elk hunt.... Forget messing around, Buy or borrow a 300 win mag some premium 180gr ammo, and be done with it.
I am out of shape and overweight. Getting hip replacement tomorrow. The elk hunt is an incentive for my brothers and I to get in shape. I like the bleachers idea. I did order a pack of 175 grain Sierra Prohunter (2400 fps) from the handloader. If they work out, he is going to produce me a hotter load (2700 fps to 2800 fps) to see if they shoot well. If not we will try a different heavier bullet. I see no reason why this rifle will not shoot most bullets good as the reviews indicate that. I really like this guy so hope his handloads are high quality. I will chronograph for performance and consistency. Great customer service.
The ammo was about $66 with free shipping. Expensive but not as much since the ammo prices went up. I went on Ammo Seek and the looked at the cheapest price for S&B 8x57 196 grain SPCE. I have bought this before as about $19 a few years back plus shipping I think at Sportsman Warehouse. The cheapest price for this ammo today was at Ventura Mutitions. Price is 32.99 + 17.39 shipping for a total of $50.38. Maybe you can do better but thinking you will still pay over $40 if you include shipping.
Thanks for the posts.
Thanks for the posts.
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