Steady to wing and shot

[Ugahunter2013]

I am training my GSP using Jon Hanns training methods in his Perfect Start/Finish videos. We are learning whoa right now and are about to learn whoa from a distance. After this Jon uses a lot of pigeons to train his dogs to Steady to wing and shot. I had a lot of pigeons but unfortunately they must have got a disease back around Christmas and they all died. I called the guy who sold me the pigeons originally and he doesn't have any ready and doesn't know when it will be. Does anyone have any advice or is this possible without birds?

 

[GLS]

Cast a wider net for pigeons or boxed quail. Overcoming the natural instinct to pursue the flushed bird requires a bird to flush. Gil

 

[Ugahunter2013]

Cast a wider net for pigeons or boxed quail. Overcoming the natural instinct to pursue the flushed bird requires a bird to flush. Gil

If you come across any please let me know. Theres only 1 ad in the market bulletin and that is the guy I bought from.

 

[tucker80]

You could trap some

 

[duckhunter2010]

Many people use a woah post or swing in their yard work program before a dog is asked to “Wup” on a bird. I have also seen others use only a check cord in different techniques without a post to reinforce this.

 

[GLS]

To teach whoa to my older Britt, I used an elevated platform of a few inches roughly the size of her stance. It's a version of the "barrel" technique. For Willa, she was far easier as she learned whoa on a leash during morning walks. Everything else was taught by Abby on hunting trips. I also used a remote launcher and a long lead to teach Abby to be steady to wing and shot. She learned it but I didn't insist on it as mostly we hunt wild birds and it was more beneficial for them to break on wounded birds. That and the other dogs weren't steady to shot. The two critical commands are come when I call or whistle and whoa when I say so.
It's my understanding that pigeons are sold during livestock auctions in Baxley. I'd check with the county agent to find out when that is. A county agent would be a good starting point to ask in surrounding counties.
If you have enough private land, an elevated call pen is a good tool for quail. It must be snake and other predator proof.
As for using a long lead to keep control while training, it's easy to be tempted to save a little money by cutting a length of rope. Rope tends to snag on every sapling, plus it absorbs dew, water in puddles, briers, cockspurs and your hands will pay the price. I recommend the lead sold by Steve Snell Gun Dog Supply, it's 25' long and is a half inch wide, flat plastic ribbon which slithers through the grass and is practically snag proof and sheds dirt and water sparing your hands. It's worth the few bucks it costs. If 25' is too long for your purposes, cut it to the length you desire. 15' was long enough for my purposes. Gil
"

 

[Ugahunter2013]

You could trap some

I have tried that and I caught 1, lol. The only problem with trapping them is you have to cage them up for a long time or they will fly back to where you trapped them. I am looking for young pigeons/squeekers.

 

[HuntJS]

I have bought some from craigslist before. But had to pretend to be a pigeon racer, they didn't want to sale to a dog trainer. If you find a good supply a feral birds ( gas stations near Atlanta/ overpasses) you could catch enough to not worry about homing them. I also used perfection kennels methods. Worked great, but I wouldnt start until you have a reliable source of birds. I also bought some from a guy near Talladega speedway.

 

[NCMTNHunter]

A solid whoa is very possible without birds. Steadiness, whatever level you want to achieve, pretty much has to be done with birds.

There are different thoughts on this but I like for whoa to be independent of birds. I start whoa and steadiness by doing things like,

Not going in the pups kennel until they calm down and stand still.

Not letting pups out of their kennel until they calm down and stand still. I will start overlaying whoa here while the dog stands so that I will let them out.

When the dog is old enough to really start driving whoa home I use a check chord with a pinch collar in conjunction with an e collar turned down as low as possible.

I get the dog moving then apply pressure with the pinch collar to stop the dog and tell it whoa then release the collar when the dog stops. Then I do a head tap release and get the dog moving again. I slowly build up the amount of time the dog is stopped.

Once they will stand for longer periods of time I start using the e collar and pinch collar at the same time. Get the dog moving, put pressure with the pinch collar and the e collar at the same time and give the whoa command. When the dog has stopped let off of both at the same time.

When the dog is responding well to this I stop using the pinch collar and only use the ecollar while keeping a hand on the check chord just in case.

Once I have confidence that I can reinforce 100% with the collar I will keep stepping up the time and adding distractions. I will whoa the dog and walk big circles around them while the stand. I will stop the dog in front of a brush pile and stomp around and kick at it like I'm trying to flush a bird and things like that.

Keep in mind this is a slow process. I will only work on this a few minutes a day only whoaing the dog two or three times each session. Like any other type of training if I see the excitement or enthusiasm fading I stop for a while and reasses what needs done.

Once all this is in place you have a great foundation for steadiness work on birds.

When you start combining this with bird work put the check chord and pinch collar back on. You may have to take a few steps back once the dog gets bird on the brain.

I know this is way more than you asked for but in short there is a lot you can do without birds.

Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with the methods you are talking about using so if my method does not line up at all with what you are doing forget everything I just said and follow your program!

 

[Ugahunter2013]

A solid whoa is very possible without birds. Steadiness, whatever level you want to achieve, pretty much has to be done with birds.

There are different thoughts on this but I like for whoa to be independent of birds. I start whoa and steadiness by doing things like,

Not going in the pups kennel until they calm down and stand still.

Not letting pups out of their kennel until they calm down and stand still. I will start overlaying whoa here while the dog stands so that I will let them out.

When the dog is old enough to really start driving whoa home I use a check chord with a pinch collar in conjunction with an e collar turned down as low as possible.

I get the dog moving then apply pressure with the pinch collar to stop the dog and tell it whoa then release the collar when the dog stops. Then I do a head tap release and get the dog moving again. I slowly build up the amount of time the dog is stopped.

Once they will stand for longer periods of time I start using the e collar and pinch collar at the same time. Get the dog moving, put pressure with the pinch collar and the e collar at the same time and give the whoa command. When the dog has stopped let off of both at the same time.

When the dog is responding well to this I stop using the pinch collar and only use the ecollar while keeping a hand on the check chord just in case.

Once I have confidence that I can reinforce 100% with the collar I will keep stepping up the time and adding distractions. I will whoa the dog and walk big circles around them while the stand. I will stop the dog in front of a brush pile and stomp around and kick at it like I'm trying to flush a bird and things like that.

Keep in mind this is a slow process. I will only work on this a few minutes a day only whoaing the dog two or three times each session. Like any other type of training if I see the excitement or enthusiasm fading I stop for a while and reasses what needs done.

Once all this is in place you have a great foundation for steadiness work on birds.

When you start combining this with bird work put the check chord and pinch collar back on. You may have to take a few steps back once the dog gets bird on the brain.

I know this is way more than you asked for but in short there is a lot you can do without birds.

Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with the methods you are talking about using so if my method does not line up at all with what you are doing forget everything I just said and follow your program!

Great info. Thank you for sharing,,,seriously! What you describe is very similar to what Jon teaches in his Perfection Kennels videos.

My dog picked up "heel" almost instantly. We moved on to "whoa" (with check cord/choke chain and now e-collar as of yesterday. I can walk out 20-30 feet and he does not move. Now if I walk a circle around him it is about 50-50 he will turn a quarter. I assume this needs correction? But I release him with a head tap and "ok" like you said. Jon recommends this as well.

I have been doing short 5-8 min sessions each day. We always finish up with a handful of retrieves of a stick or whatever is lying around. As soon as I take the choke chain off to let him retrieve he is back to his full of energy/wide open self.

The next step Jon uses once the dog becomes familiar with "whoa" from the check cord and choke chain...is he incorporates the e-collar for a few sessions. He moves on from that to the "whoa" with the dog not at heel and out a little bit from you. Gradually he starts to "whoa" with the dog further and further out.

I did get in contact with pigeon supplier in south ga yesterday. He has squeekers ready and said that after closing them up in the pen for 1-2 months they should be ready to release. They are expensive, but what do you do? lol . I think what I will do is get the pigeons and while they are being shut in the pen, I can continue to hone the "whoa" command so it is solid.

This is my first time training a dog so this is all new to me. The reason I like Jons methods is he simplifies things and it is not too overwhelming to someone like myself,,,and obviously he is very successful so you know it works.

 

[NCMTNHunter]

Great info. Thank you for sharing,,,seriously! What you describe is very similar to what Jon teaches in his Perfection Kennels videos.

My dog picked up "heel" almost instantly. We moved on to "whoa" (with check cord/choke chain and now e-collar as of yesterday. I can walk out 20-30 feet and he does not move. Now if I walk a circle around him it is about 50-50 he will turn a quarter. I assume this needs correction? But I release him with a head tap and "ok" like you said. Jon recommends this as well.

I have been doing short 5-8 min sessions each day. We always finish up with a handful of retrieves of a stick or whatever is lying around. As soon as I take the choke chain off to let him retrieve he is back to his full of energy/wide open self.

The next step Jon uses once the dog becomes familiar with "whoa" from the check cord and choke chain...is he incorporates the e-collar for a few sessions. He moves on from that to the "whoa" with the dog not at heel and out a little bit from you. Gradually he starts to "whoa" with the dog further and further out.

I did get in contact with pigeon supplier in south ga yesterday. He has squeekers ready and said that after closing them up in the pen for 1-2 months they should be ready to release. They are expensive, but what do you do? lol . I think what I will do is get the pigeons and while they are being shut in the pen, I can continue to hone the "whoa" command so it is solid.

This is my first time training a dog so this is all new to me. The reason I like Jons methods is he simplifies things and it is not too overwhelming to someone like myself,,,and obviously he is very successful so you know it works.

I don't know that I would worry about the dog turning at this point. But then again I don't worry about much. It will probably fix itself once you are stopping the dog more with the collar. The main thing to remember is that you have all the time in world. No need to push the dog or worry about about it checking box's on some time frame. Bring the dog along at it's own pace and have fun.

 

[cabinetjedi]

I am training my GSP using Jon Hanns training methods in his Perfect Start/Finish videos. We are learning whoa right now and are about to learn whoa from a distance. After this Jon uses a lot of pigeons to train his dogs to Steady to wing and shot. I had a lot of pigeons but unfortunately they must have got a disease back around Christmas and they all died. I called the guy who sold me the pigeons originally and he doesn't have any ready and doesn't know when it will be. Does anyone have any advice or is this possible without birds?

Where are you located?