Takes Lots of Faith To believe this

Lowjack

Senior Member
Fossil Ida: extraordinary find is 'missing link' in human evolutionPerfectly preserved fossil Ida, unveiled in New York today, provides unprecedented insight into our ancestry
Comments (…) Buzz up! Digg it (16) James Randerson guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 19 May 2009 15.30 BST Article history
Ida, one of the most complete primate fossils ever found, a 47-million-year-old human ancestor. Photograph: Atlantic Productions Ltd

Scientists have discovered an exquisitely preserved ancient primate fossil that they believe forms a crucial "missing link" between our own evolutionary branch of life and the rest of the animal kingdom.

The 47m-year-old primate – named Ida – has been hailed as the fossil equivalent of a "Rosetta Stone" for understanding the critical early stages of primate evolution.

The top-level international research team, who have studied her in secret for the past two years, believe she is the most complete and best preserved primate fossil ever uncovered. The skeleton is 95% complete and thanks to the unique location where she died, it is possible to see individual hairs covering her body and even the make-up of her final meal – a last vegetarian snack.

"This little creature is going to show us our connection with the rest of all the mammals; with cows and sheep, and elephants and anteaters," said Sir David Attenborough who is narrating a BBC documentary on the find. "The more you look at Ida, the more you can see, as it were, the primate in embryo."

"This will be the one pictured in the textbooks for the next hundred years," said Dr Jørn Hurum, the palaeontologist from Oslo University's Natural History Museum who assembled the scientific team to study the fossil. "It tells a part of our evolution that's been hidden so far. It's been hidden because the only [other] specimens are so incomplete and so broken there's nothing almost to study." The fossil has been formally named Darwinius masillae in honour of Darwin's 200th birthday year.

It has been shipped across the Atlantic for an unveiling ceremony hosted by the mayor of New York Michael Bloomberg today. There is even talk of Ida being the first non-living thing to feature on the front cover of People magazine.

She will then be transported back to Oslo, via a brief stop at the Natural History Museum in London on Tuesday, 26 May, when Attenborough will host a press conference.

Ida was originally discovered by an amateur fossil hunter in the summer of 1983 at Messel pit, a world renowned fossil site near Darmstadt in Germany. He kept it under wraps for over 20 years before deciding to sell it via a German fossil dealer called Thomas Perner. It was Perner who approached Hurum two years ago.

"My heart started beating extremely fast," said Hurum, "I knew that the dealer had a world sensation in his hands. I could not sleep for 2 nights. I was just thinking about how to get this to an official museum so that it could be described and published for science." Hurum would not reveal what the university museum paid for the fossil, but the original asking price was $1m. He did not see the fossil before buying it – just three photographs, representing a huge gamble.

But it appears to have paid off. "You need an icon or two in a museum to drag people in," said Hurum, "this is our Mona Lisa and it will be our Mona Lisa for the next 100 years."

Hurum chose Ida's nickname because the diminutive creature is at the equivalent stage of development as his six-year-old daughter. Hurum said Ida is very excited about her namesake. "She says, 'there are two Idas now, there's me I'm living and then there's the dead one.'"

"It's caught at a really very interesting moment [in the animal's life] when it fortunately has all its baby teeth and is in the process of forming all its permanent teeth," said Dr Holly Smith, an expert in primate development at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, who was part of the team. "So you have more information in it than almost any fossil you could think of."

The fossil's amazing preservation means that the scientific team has managed to glean a huge amount of information from it, although this required new X-ray techniques that had not previously been applied to any other specimens.

The researchers believe it comes from the time when the primate lineage, that diversified into monkeys, apes and ultimately humans, split from a separate group that went on to become lemurs and other less well known species.

Crucially though, Ida is not on the lemur line because she lacks two key characteristics shared by lemurs – a grooming claw on her second toe and a fused set of teeth called a tooth comb. Also, a bone in her ankle called the talus is shaped like members of our branch of the primates. So the researchers believe she may be on our evolutionary line dating from just after the split with the lemurs.

According to the team's published description of the skeleton in the journal PLoS ONE, Ida was 53cm long and a juvenile around six to nine months old. The team can be sure Ida is a girl because she does not have a penis bone.

"She was at this vulnerable age where you are no longer right with your mother," said Smith, "Just as you leave weaning you are not full grown, but you are on your own."

The unprecedented preservation of Ida meant working out how she died was more like a modern day crime scene investigation than the informed guess-work that palaeontologists usually make do with. The team noticed that she had a broken wrist that had begun to partially heal. The injury did not kill her, but they speculate that it contributed to her premature demise.

"It might be that her mother dropped her once or that she fell down from a tree earlier in her life," Smith said. She survived the accident, but her climbing abilities would have been impaired. Unable to drink from water trapped by tree leaves, she would have had to venture down to the lake to drink. This would have proved to be a fateful decision.

The huge range of magnificently preserved fossils at Messel suggest that the volcanic lake was a death trap. Scientists believe that it sporadically let forth giant belches of poisonous volcanic gases that would have immediately suffocated anything in, around and even over the water. Ida would then have fallen into the water and been preserved in the sediment deep at the bottom.

• Atlantic productions' programme, Uncovering Our Earliest Ancestor: The Link, will be broadcast in the UK on Tuesday, 26 May at 9pm on BBC1. Colin Tudge's book, The Link, is published on 20 May by Little Brown.
 

Attachments

  • Ida-the-missing-link-prim-001.jpg
    Ida-the-missing-link-prim-001.jpg
    36.8 KB · Views: 319

formula1

Daily Bible Verse Organizer
Re:

I had a Grandma named Emma Lou once, no tail like that, but she'd use that tail to beat you within an inch of your life. Fiesty, but she didn't climb trees!!!

Imagine, evolution from that into Miss America! What faith!
 

earl

Banned
OK ,now that we poked fun at our naturalists ,what is your biblical explanation ? With quotes of course.
 

Havana Dude

Senior Member
One question

If we decended from apes, why are there still apes?
 

gtparts

Senior Member
If you got your tail caught by the refrigerator door repeatedly you would alter your DNA too!

How come we jump from country to country and continent to continent and skip 100s of thousands of years with this junk? Did they have frequent flier miles back then?

Just suppose that poor Ida was the last of her species and passed on to non-existent offspring all that wonderful potential. They could only legitimately put her in the evolutionary "lineup" if they knew she had passed on some traits expressed in future species. They really have dots, but nothing to conclusively connect them.:crazy:
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
How can they tell that it's 47 million years old?

Criminal investigators have trouble putting an accurate age to the skeletal remain of a murder victim.
 

gtparts

Senior Member
How can they tell that it's 47 million years old?

Criminal investigators have trouble putting an accurate age to the skeletal remain of a murder victim.

Counted the candles on Ida's b'day cake.
 

Lowjack

Senior Member
How can they tell that it's 47 million years old?

Criminal investigators have trouble putting an accurate age to the skeletal remain of a murder victim.

It sounded like a good number I guess, like betting on the lottery, what sounds likea good combo to you ? LOL:biggrin2:
 

earl

Banned
So ,ya'll don't have any scripture for that one ? Hmmmm
 

Madman

Senior Member
Time and time again they always play themselves out. Piltdown man, Nebraska man, and the bird they found in China just to name a few.

I won’t be holding my breath.
 

Madman

Senior Member
So ,ya'll don't have any scripture for that one ? Hmmmm

I do.

Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
 

donjon25

Senior Member
OK ,now that we poked fun at our naturalists ,what is your biblical explanation ? With quotes of course.

I didn't post anything on purpose...way to easy. I think there's a motive behind this request.

Picking up a Bible and reading about creation is a no-brainer...even for earl.
 

Lowjack

Senior Member
Well It Seems Their Faith is Not Really Faith But Self Deceit !







THE TRUE FACTS ABOUT THE FICTITIOUS 'MISSING LINK' IDA THAT DARWINISTS NEVER MENTION

A few days ago the Darwinist David Attenborough came up with a claim regarding a striking discovery(!). According to that claim, the fictitious missing link in human evolution was missing no longer! The fact is, however, that the fossil Ida, depicted as an extraordinary discovery in special broadcasts and publications, is in fact an extinct lemur.

Attempts have been made to use wide-ranging propaganda to launch the fossil Ida as the “ancestor of man” on various web sites such as those of ABC, BBC, Science Daily and the Guardian. In this propaganda all Darwinist publications were agreed that this was the fossil that everyone had been awaiting but that had never to date been found. But all that was found was nothing more than an exceptionally well preserved fossil lemur. So with what claims did Darwinists launch this fossil lemur, discovered in Germany and estimated to be 47 million years old?

The only reason for the Darwinist speculation about the fossil was WHAT IS NOT IN IT! The fossil belonged to a lemur, but had slightly different teeth and claw structures to those of present-day lemurs. It therefore represented an extinct species of lemur that once lived in the past. That was the basis for all the Darwinist clamor.

This animal, 95% preserved and with even its internal organs fossilized, was a perfect life form. It had not a single semi-developed, deficient or redundant structure. It is therefore impossible to regard it as a transitional form. Nonetheless, the Darwinist media made a huge fuss out of depicting this perfect fossil as a transitional form. Science Daily described the fossil as “extraordinary.” Sky News went even further and described the fossil as the “eighth wonder of the world.” The Darwinist David Attenborough said “The link they would have said until now is missing ... it is no longer missing.” By making that statement, Attenborough was in one sense admitting the invalidity of the skulls that have for years been portrayed as missing links in the imaginary evolution of man. His error was to imagine that this perfect fossil lemur was the ancestor of man.

Even some Darwinists looked askance at all this furor. Darwinist Henry Gee, editor in chief of Nature magazine, openly stated that it was misleading to refer to this creature as a “missing link.” And that statement has been carried in all the Darwinist references reporting the story.

The picture that emerged while all this clamor was being made revealed the following reality to the entire world: THE PITIFUL SITUATION DARWINISTS FIND THEMSELVES IN. Aware of the hopeless position they were in, Darwinists made themselves even more pitiful by taking an extinct lemur fossil and saying it represents “a forebear of man.”

THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THIS:

Ninety percent of the species that have lived on Earth are extinct. THERE ARE 99 SPECIES OF LEMUR, 16 OF WHICH ARE EXTINCT. Newly discovered fossils raise the number of extinct species. A great many extinct species have also disappeared entirely.
The newly discovered fossil IDA IS ALSO ONE OF THESE EXTINCT SPECIES OF LEMUR THAT SUBSEQUENTLY VANISHED. Like the other extinct forms that have been discovered, this fossil ALSO EXHIBITS NO TRANSITIONAL FEATURES, AND IS ACTUALLY A PERFECT LIFE FORM. And this IS ONE OF THE GREATEST PROOFS OF THE FACT OF CREATION.

Darwinists have never mentioned the following facts, out of a fear of the truth about this fossil they have speculated so much over eventually coming to light:

1. The fossil is 95% complete. It has therefore been possible to examine its every detail, including the animal’s internal organs. And apart from a few details pointing to variations unique to individual species, IT IS A PERFECT SPECIES OF LEMUR.

2. Darwinist publications have claimed that Ida has an opposable thumb, and that this feature is different to that in other mammals but the same as that in humans. The fact is that all living lemurs have thumbs of this kind.

3. In the same way, Darwinists have tried to point to Ida’s nails as evidence for their claims. But other primates also do have nails.

4. Darwinists maintain that Ida’s ankle bone “is the same as that in human beings.” But the other foot structure in this life form is entirely different to that in humans. Comparing one single bone in the feet while ignoring all the other differences is a familiar element of Darwinist propaganda.

5. Darwinists say that the fossil has fused teeth and seek to use this as evidence for their claims. But fused teeth are a characteristic peculiar to primates. It is therefore quite normal to find them in an extinct lemur.

6. The fossil was actually discovered in 1983. It has taken 26 years for this huge sensation to break. The reason for the long delay is probably that the fossil is being used as a vehicle for conjecture just when Darwinists need it the most, when they have been totally routed. From having been kept as an ordinary fossil lemur, it suddenly became the greatest discovery Darwinists had ever made.


All the Darwinist speculation around this fossil is based on the totally unscientific idea that “this characteristic resembles man.” Of course life forms resemble one another. But this is no proof of the lie of evolution. Instead of depicting similarities as evidence for the fiction that is evolution, Darwinists need to bring a real transitional fossil, and point to deficient but developing, semi-developed or abnormal structures in it. But it is impossible for them to do that. Because, like all other life forms, this lemur was created from nothing and in a perfect state by our Almighty Lord. And the fossils prove that.

Conclusion:

Ida is the clearest example of how any fossil can be distorted by Darwinists and DEPICTED AS THE ANCESTOR OF MAN by way of fraud and deception. The furor that has arisen about this fossil is just the latest and freshest example of the rotten foundations of Darwinist propaganda, which we have been describing for a very long time. Darwinists still imagine that they can deceive and mislead people as they please when they engage in intensive speculation about a fossil. The fact is, however, that people are now perfectly well aware of the false methods used to further Darwinist propaganda. They have therefore immediately realized that a perfect fossil lemur depicted as the “forerunner of man” is just another component of this false propaganda.

The conclusion to be drawn from Ida is that Darwinists are in a terrible state of despair. Darwinist scientists have had to remove from the literature all the fossils they once declared to be “missing links” as they are all frauds, and are now shamelessly espousing yet another such fraud. NOT ONE SINGLE TRANSITIONAL FORM, of which there should be trillions according to Darwinism, EXISTS. Nobody believes in this fraud any more. Darwinists must now admit that their perverse theory has now come to the end of the road, and finally been buried.

May 22, 2009
 

Attachments

  • ida_fosil.jpg
    ida_fosil.jpg
    54 KB · Views: 242
  • lemur1.jpg
    lemur1.jpg
    22.8 KB · Views: 241

Lowjack

Senior Member
Interesting facts about evolution and the way they get their information.
Lucy-nearly all experts agree Lucy was just a 3 ft tall chimpanzee.
Heidelberg Man-Built from a jawbone that was conceded by many to be quite human.
Nebraska Man-Scientifically built up from one tooth, later found to be the tooth of an extinct pig.
Piltdown Man-The jawbone turned out to belong to a modern ape.
Peking Man-Supposedly 500,000 years old, but all evidence has disappeared.
Neanderthal Man-At the Int'l Congress of Zoology(1958) Dr J.A.E. Cave said his examination showed that this famous skeleton found in France over 50 years ago is that of an old man who suffered from arthritis.
New Guinea Man- Dates back to 1970. This species has been found in the region just north of Australia.
Cro-Magnon Man-One of the earliest and best established fossils is at least equal in physique and brain capacity to modern man...so what's the difference?
Modern Man-evolution geniuses think we came from a monkey.

"Professing themselves to be wise they became fools."-Romans 1:22
 

Diogenes

Banned
11. ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

The triumph of ignorance is once again demonstrated. It can't be long before someone here argues that they don't understand how their computer works, so God made it . . .
 

striper slug

Senior Member
evolution

for people like the above poster, evolution is their feeble minds attempt to not face the fact that God is real and will judge them and all others including myself for what weve done with our life
 

Lowjack

Senior Member
for people like the above poster, evolution is their feeble minds attempt to not face the fact that God is real and will judge them and all others including myself for what weve done with our life
Or the wishfull thinking he doesn't exist ?:smash:
 
Top