Was Matthew an inspired writer?

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
My thinking is this maternal concept is 100% working backwards, that some Jews, and all modern day Christians, are disregarding the view of the Jews that lived in the OT times, and reading and trying to find justification for it in the book. In the book, is much different. Even if you can make it work due to the wording of the book, it likely was not a reality in real Jewish life
 
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bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
My thinking is this maternal concept is 100% working backwards, that some Jews, all modern day Christians, are disregarding the view of the Jews that lived in the OT times, and reading and trying to find justification for it in the book. In the book, is much different. Even if you can make it work due to the wording of the book, it likely was not a reality in real Jewish life
The sad but honest truth is that worldwide in the overwhelming majority of cultures for a Long time up until fairly recently(think voting and equal rights), women just didn't count.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
The sad but honest truth is that worldwide in the overwhelming majority of cultures for a Long time up until fairly recently(think voting and equal rights), women just didn't count.
Yep, originally, the husband bought the wife like a piece of property. Seemingly, in scriptures, it looks as though it evolved into a gift? Really strange contradictions... we find within the bible. Paul would not even allow a woman to teach..... she must remain silent.... and have no authority over a man. Yet, genealogy of Jesus through a woman. However, the very reason that Paul wrote it, that it came to mind, rather than out of the blue, was that he must have observed the very thing on the rise, the potential of it. LOL, Paul would have been stoned by women if he lived in this day
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
The prophecy is “from the House of David”. All of the political correctness is from man only.

And it’s the reason I kept asking about a prophecy for a direct blood line only through the fathers side that excludes the Jewish traditions / laws of marriage and or adoption........and even Genesis....”son of Sarah”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineality_in_Judaism#The_Matriarchs_of_Israel

“The Torah specifically emphasizes the importance of the bloodlines of the four matriarchs of Israel: Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel and Leah.”

Neither Matthew nor Luke got it wrong.......and they’re not contradictory.

Jesus is a tdescendant of the House of David legally from Joseph and by blood through Mary.
https://christianity.stackexchange....ith-the-names-of-the-ancestors-of/13702#13702
Read through it. Some address what you are saying.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Regarding this, it was also noted that the disciples spoke above their expected potential. And they said of Jesus "where did he get such wisdom". Since the legitity of these writing is in debate, one might think this is added context, after all, what would we expect them to say. Is it any surprise that Solomon thought he was so wise. However, apart from literal words, the context is that people took note of Jesus. They did listen to him. They did struggle to decide if he might be the coming Christ. The context over the resistance he encountered.... as well as those that believed... is clearly there. It's hard to manipulate context. As Erhman would say, writers tend to only write about the best of the story when they make stuff up. Rarely would they spend so much time writing about the resistance to him
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Genealogy of Jesus
https://glentonjelbert.com/notes-from-a-dialog/

From above:
Mark does not give a genealogy either, but the passage he relates on this is even more extraordinary. Mark 12:35-37 says the following:

Jesus responded, as he taught in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? For David himself said in the Holy Spirit, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet.”’ Therefore David himself calls him Lord, so how can he be his son?”
The implication of this is that Jesus is claiming that the Christ need not be the son of David. I suppose the most common “interpretation” is that Jesus is more than the son of David, but this feels like a stretch to me. Jesus never mentions his supposed Davidic heritage and his family thinks that he is mad.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Regarding this, it was also noted that the disciples spoke above their expected potential. And they said of Jesus "where did he get such wisdom". Since the legitity of these writing is in debate, one might think this is added context, after all, what would we expect them to say. Is it any surprise that Solomon thought he was so wise. However, apart from literal words, the context is that people took note of Jesus. They did listen to him. They did struggle to decide if he might be the coming Christ. The context over the resistance he encountered.... as well as those that believed... is clearly there. It's hard to manipulate context. As Erhman would say, writers tend to only write about the best of the story when they make stuff up. Rarely would they spend so much time writing about the resistance to him
I agree
Does what I say in post #219 about Pharoah and Moses make sense to you regarding why adoption doesn't work?
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
I agree
Does what I say in post #219 about Pharoah and Moses make sense to you regarding why adoption doesn't work?
I agree. Descendant of David.... one might could argue... if a legal adoption took place. But I expect "bloodline" is used somewhere. And that can't be done through adoption. I don't think God would have made the Christ "seemingly" as Luke put it, in any way. Their reason for not believing was never his bloodline. Which would have invited context about this potential dispute into the text. It was his offensiveness. He was highly offensive. I wonder if he was actually this offensive, or if the gospels embellish this? Imagine someone, a carpenter, coming on the scene, and telling the highest of religion, the Joel Olsteen, John McCarther, etc, that they are white washed tombs. I do realize that the gospel, the new covenant, means no one is good enough. But in their defense, they likely thought they were trying hard to please God, as Saul/Paul once did.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
I agree. Descendant of David.... one might could argue... if a legal adoption took place. But I expect "bloodline" is used somewhere. And that can't be done through adoption. I don't think God would have made the Christ "seemingly" as Luke put it, in any way. Their reason for not believing was never his bloodline. Which would have invited context about this potential dispute into the text. It was his offensiveness. He was highly offensive. I wonder if he was actually this offensive, or if the gospels embellish this? Imagine someone, a carpenter, coming on the scene, and telling the highest of religion, the Joel Olsteen, John McCarther, etc, that they are white washed tombs. I do realize that the gospel, the new covenant, means no one is good enough. But in their defense, they likely thought they were trying hard to please God, as Saul/Paul once did.
And if adoption was part of the deal wouldn't Moses be the Son of Pharoah and Moses children and their children and their children's children the descendants of Pharoah?
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Actually wait, it is even better...we can use use both Christian arguments here for Moses.
He was the adopted Son of Pharoh's Daughter! So now we have an adoption on the mother's side.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
You can see from the site, 1st section, that this Paternal or maternal, is still highly debated among Jews. Meaning some do, conservatives don't. It is clear that up until a point, that all Jews believed in paternal only. It looks as though "mother of Issac" became a point that some see as emphasis on mother, rather than, identification. Context, would be key in later writings as to what our writers actually thought, with what mindset they wrote. And.... they are still giving "son of" all the way through. With the exception of Luke's one insertion of Mary. We can't tell since we did not live in the day. All we can do is look at the context. And Matthew and Luke, among others, were son of. In Luke's mind, he figured out how it worked. I will look further into this. For one, the emphasis on Sarah mother of Issac has nothing to do with Issac being called the firstborn even though it was Ishmael rather than Issac who was born first. This emphasis is not Sarah. It's the promise God made to Abraham that he would have a son. But rather than wait on God, they tried to help God fulfill his promise, thus Ishmael. But, in God's economy, Issac was first because God had already said so. OT saints were commended for believing that which was promised was factual. You could even say about Issac, the word became flesh. And Issac could even say, before Ishmael, I am. This OT concept is foreign to modern Christianity.
Remember we are talking about Israel. Not Orthodox Jews.

Regardless if they started a new religion, new sect, new messiah, etc., the stories line up perfectly for them.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Your questions have been answered every time. You just keep asking the same ones.
Bloodline. The Genes of King David. Prophecy says the Messiah will be a descendant of King David. A descendant has that bloodline coursing through their veins. It doesn't matter if King David himself adopted Jesus. Jesus does not have that bloodline.
If you insist that you want to use your adoption theory we can. You make it easier to disprove everything if you want to stick with adoption.
Moses was Adopted by Pharoah.
Jewish prophecy ends there. Every descendant after Moses will trace back to Pharoah using your theory.
Is Moses the descendant of Amram or Pharoah???
Adoption REALLY doesn't work Spotlite.

Your question is answered
Ok I missed it. Please point me to the answer of this; the direct blood descendant from the fathers side requirement, or better yet, just point me to the prophecy itself. It should have the requirement there. I’d like to see if it’s a prophecy or traditional requirement.

You do realize that even David was just a shepherd boy, he wasn’t born into royalty????? How’d he get to be King???
 
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bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Ok I missed it. Please point me to the answer of this; the direct blood descendant from the fathers side requirement, or better yet, just point me to the prophecy itself. It should have the requirement there. I’d like to see if it’s a prophecy or traditional requirement.

You do realize that even David was just a shepherd boy, he wasn’t born into royalty????? How’d he get to be King???
Ok Spotlite, we will go with your adoption twist.
Therefore, since Moses was adopted, his father would have been the husband of Pharoah's sister and not who the bible says.
Using adoption as "legal" or accepted would break the chain of biblical descendants.

So tell me, Who is considered Moses Father according to the bible....Amram, his flesh and blood or Pharoah's Brother Law(I dont know his name), Moses's adoptive father?
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Ok I missed it. Please point me to the answer of this; the direct blood descendant from the fathers side requirement, or better yet, just point me to the prophecy itself. It should have the requirement there. I’d like to see if it’s a prophecy or traditional requirement.

You do realize that even David was just a shepherd boy, he wasn’t born into royalty????? How’d he get to be King???

Romans 1:3 World English Bible (WEB)

3 concerning his Son, who was born of the offspring of David according to the flesh,

What does according to the flesh mean?
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Romans 1:3 World English Bible (WEB)

3 concerning his Son, who was born of the offspring of David according to the flesh,

What does according to the flesh mean?
LOL, God put that there for you Bullet knowing you would one day use it. Just like he said over and over, "God is one". LOL, he knew that one day, they would be saying he was three in one. Ever thought about that? Just why would God declare he is one. Would that not be assumed. He did not say, he was the only one. He said "one".
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Romans 1:3 World English Bible (WEB)

3 concerning his Son, who was born of the offspring of David according to the flesh,

What does according to the flesh mean?
There are many interpretations from his human nature to the Gospel.......but none for it meaning a fatherly only blood lineage.

The “offspring of David” is your key element, and this scripture is requiring that fatherly only lineage where and how? And why are you in the NT looking for an OT or Torah prophecy????

You’re argument should be the inconsistency of just anointing a shepherd boy as a King to a throne that requires a fatherly blood lineage to be recognized as a part of.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
https://biblehub.com/text/psalms/132-11.htm
Notice the "from your body "seed" most translate it as one of your descendants. Because they believe a descendant is your seed or the fruit of your body. But in this case, we need to see the original. And the truth is clear
 
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Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Spotlite, its a long read, but worth it if you want explanations regarding adoption and Jesus as Messiah

https://glentonjelbert.com/notes-from-a-dialog/
I will cut the chase. Outside of tradition or custom......there is no requirement for a fatherly blood lineage, even the Jews themselves are not in full agreement of paternal verses maternal.

The Bible stories don’t have to be true in nature but Matthew and Luke both are correct for the stories they’re playing a role in.

The difference in using “Gods requirement” and tradition is as simple as understanding the requirement to love your wife......but it’s becoming more traditional that two men are marrying......does it force God to recognize that man as another man’s wife?
 
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