What's the ancestory of Native Americans?

[SemperFiDawg]

Saw on another forum about how DNA has been extracted from ancient human remains in Europe and how that information has been used to map how different ethnicities spread. Got me wondering what actually is the oldest human remains found in North America(you don't hear much about that subject) and what their DNA showed as far as where they came from. Anyone???

 

[westcobbdog]

My guess would be early man / Neanderthals? Regarding DNA, was watching "Finding your roots" tv show a few days ago and there's a rather famous lady who literally can find DNA connections without any sort of trail, a dna sample, nothing. She looks thru 10's of millions of records to find matches and actually works a lot now with the police solving crimes. CeCe Moore is her name. Interesting topic.

 

[Nicodemus]

Don`t know about DNA but just my opinion is that the Solutreans were on this continent first, coming in from the Atlantic in the northeast around 35,000 years ago, give or take. It`s starting to look like the people out of Siberia were here up to 16,000 years ago. The date for their arrival was usually thought to be around 12,000 years ago, but recent findings are pushing that time back some.

After the big hoax about the Sandia point being made by the "first Americans", Clovis is still considered the oldest points so far. It is ironic that the state with the most Clovis points being found and registered is Alabama.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Saw on another forum about how DNA has been extracted from ancient human remains in Europe and how that information has been used to map how different ethnicities spread. Got me wondering what actually is the oldest human remains found in North America(you don't hear much about that subject) and what their DNA showed as far as where they came from. Anyone???

There are a few sites in the US where human remains have been found that date to over 10,000 years old. One in California and another at the Anzick site in Montana date to about 13,000 years BP. The Anzick remains were a Clovis site. The results suggested Siberian ancestry.
Some other really old ones were Kennewick Man from Washington, and remains found in the LeBrea Tar Pits that both date to around 10,000 years. DNA from Kennewick Man showed him to be similar to modern Native Americans, though early reports about his skull suggested that he could have been more Caucasian.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I wonder why no human remains found in the south. Climate? Also wonder if any southern caves have ever had archeological digs performed in them. If most of the Clovis points are in Alabama one would think that maybe, just maybe some southern caves would hold some human remains.

 

[Nicodemus]

I wonder why no human remains found in the south. Climate? Also wonder if any southern caves have ever had archeological digs performed in them. If most of the Clovis points are in Alabama one would think that maybe, just maybe some southern caves would hold some human remains.

Wet, humid climates don`t agree well with organic remains like a dry arid climate does. Same with water, clay water destroys bone, ivory, and antler whereas tannic acid water preserves it. You would be amazed at the artifacts and remains found in some of the blackwater rivers in the Florida Panhandle and South Georgia.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I wonder why no human remains found in the south. Climate? Also wonder if any southern caves have ever had archeological digs performed in them. If most of the Clovis points are in Alabama one would think that maybe, just maybe some southern caves would hold some human remains.

There have been scads of prehistoric human remains found in the south, just none dating back to Paleo times so far.

 

[Nicodemus]

Also, very little remains have ever been found anywhere of the Clovis people.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Also, very little remains have ever been found anywhere of the Clovis people.

I think the Anzick site in Montana is the only one so far.

 

[Nicodemus]

I wonder why no human remains found in the south. Climate? Also wonder if any southern caves have ever had archeological digs performed in them. If most of the Clovis points are in Alabama one would think that maybe, just maybe some southern caves would hold some human remains.

It`s not in the South but the Meadowcroft Site in Pennsylvania is where the oldest habitation site has been found. Some studies date it back 19,000 years. Even during the last Ice Age the climate down this way was favorable over most anywhere else. Plus there was no lack of game to be had.

 

[kmckinnie]

Wet, humid climates don`t agree well with organic remains like a dry arid climate does. Same with water, clay water destroys bone, ivory, and antler whereas tannic acid water preserves it. You would be amazed at the artifacts and remains found in some of the blackwater rivers in the Florida Panhandle and South Georgia.

They be surprised what comes up out of the gulf. I’ve seen it. Back when the shelf was dry.

 

[kmckinnie]

They be surprised what comes up out of the gulf. I’ve seen it. Back when the shelf was dry.

Not seen it dry. But some Incredible finds.

 

[Nicodemus]

They be surprised what comes up out of the gulf. I’ve seen it. Back when the shelf was dry.

Yessir, I`ve seen some beautiful Paleo stuff come out of the Gulf. I love that black patina that saltwater puts on it. Even on the ivory and bone.

 

[kmckinnie]

My guess is the teeth. That may survive in the right places. Like rivers. Lots of mastodon teeth have came out of the flint and Chattahoochee.

 

[GeorgiaBob]

There are sites on the west coast of both North and South America that might be related to an Indus/Pacific/Asian migration across the Pacific. The problem is, nobody has figured out how to date rocks so those sites are dated with big question marks or remain undated. Some of the researchers are arguing for well after the Younger Dryus (14K to 12K BC) which puts those people after the Siberian migration across the Bering Sea Bridge (variously argued at 26K BC, to 14-12K BC).

My guess, entirely amateur, is that somewhen around 30K to 35K years ago, climate warmed enough that small groups of humans, who had learned how to be very imaginative and successful, grew into unmanageably large groups and started to break off travelling/exploring teams. We already know that sophisticated human groups were in Africa, the Middle East, Europe, Asia, Southeast Asia, Australia, Siberia, and even on the western Pacific Islands (Japan and Philippines) about that time.

The Americas were probably first settled from Asia/Pacific islanders, Europeans, and Africans during that period. Who was first would be a meaningless distinction if settlers arrived from three or four different cultures within a few thousand years of one another. That multi directional early migration would also help explain how rapidly the Bering Sea Bridge migrants, with new weapons technology and new knapping skills, were able to expand across North America so rapidly. And early immigration from multiple different cultures would help address the differences in usage of similar structures across both continents.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Yessir, I`ve seen some beautiful Paleo stuff come out of the Gulf. I love that black patina that saltwater puts on it. Even on the ivory and bone.

Scott Silsby once showed me pics of a classic Solutrean Laurel Leaf point found off the coast of VA that was made from PA rhyolite.

 

[NCHillbilly]

There are sites on the west coast of both North and South America that might be related to an Indus/Pacific/Asian migration across the Pacific. The problem is, nobody has figured out how to date rocks so those sites are dated with big question marks or remain undated. Some of the researchers are arguing for well after the Younger Dryus (14K to 12K BC) which puts those people after the Siberian migration across the Bering Sea Bridge (variously argued at 26K BC, to 14-12K BC).

My guess, entirely amateur, is that somewhen around 30K to 35K years ago, climate warmed enough that small groups of humans, who had learned how to be very imaginative and successful, grew into unmanageably large groups and started to break off travelling/exploring teams. We already know that sophisticated human groups were in Africa, the Middle East, Europe, Asia, Southeast Asia, Australia, Siberia, and even on the western Pacific Islands (Japan and Philippines) about that time.

The Americas were probably first settled from Asia/Pacific islanders, Europeans, and Africans during that period. Who was first would be a meaningless distinction if settlers arrived from three or four different cultures within a few thousand years of one another. That multi directional early migration would also help explain how rapidly the Bering Sea Bridge migrants, with new weapons technology and new knapping skills, were able to expand across North America so rapidly. And early immigration from multiple different cultures would help address the differences in usage of similar structures across both continents.

Yeah, I believe early America had a mix of peoples who came from both directions.

 

[Nicodemus]

My guess is the teeth. That may survive in the right places. Like rivers. Lots of mastodon teeth have came out of the flint and Chattahoochee.

There seems to be more mammoth molars found than mastodon, and there`s a lot of mastodon molars found too. The Flint from Lake Blackshear and on down has a lot of them. I did see the remains of a baby mastodon that was found in the Ichaway-Nochaway Creek below Newton. The small rivers that originate in Southwest Georgia and flow through the Panhandle to empty into the Gulf are full of Ice Age Megafauna, and Paleo points too. This entire area must have been a Mecca for the Paleo hunters.

 

[Nicodemus]

Scott Silsby once showed me pics of a classic Solutrean Laurel Leaf point found off the coast of VA that was made from PA rhyolite.

I think I`ve seen pictures of that blade somewhere. It was a fine one sho-nuff.

 

[ddd-shooter]

They also found a set of footprints in white sands dating back 20k years.

It’s hard for me to believe all peoples here came through Beringia.