Constantine And The Sabbath

[gemcgrew]

That must really be confusing for someone who believes in eternal salvation. Here is a Jewish man who follows God and the Law. Jesus comes and he doesn't believe he is the Messiah thus losing his salvation. Later he sees the error of his ways and starts believing. He had salvation, lost it, and gained it back.
Maybe we should just say we are saved by God's grace before or after Jesus came to the Earth.

Not confusing at all. He never had salvation. Moses was a precursor to Christ. The Jews did not believe Moses. If they had , they would have believed Jesus. Moses told them about Jesus and they were commanded to receive him.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Not confusing at all. He never had salvation. Moses was a precursor to Christ. The Jews did not believe Moses. If they had , they would have believed Jesus. Moses told them about Jesus and they were commanded to receive him.

Well at least they had a choice. God would not command someone to do something if they weren't capable to follow the commandment.

What about "grafted in again?" sounds like they were "in" at some point but were "out" when they refused to believe Jesus was the Messiah?

 

[1gr8bldr]

The history of Christianity is beautiful. God works all things after the counsel of his will.

“He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them: he enlargeth the nations, and straiteneth them again.”(Job 12:23)

“When he giveth quietness, who then can make trouble? and when he hideth his face, who then can behold him? whether it be done against a nation, or against a man only.”(Job 34:29)

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”(Isaiah 45:7)

“Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: ”(Isaiah 46:9,10)

Perspective!

Do you not know about all the killings 4th and 5th century. Hitler said refering to persucuting the jews "I am only doing what the Christians have been doing all along"

 

[Artfuldodger]

John 5:47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

So this verse is saying that every Jew born from the time of Moses to the time of Jesus never received salvation? That is way more than a temporary blindness.

 

[hobbs27]

t

Do you not know about all the killings 4th and 5th century. Hitler said refering to persucuting the jews "I am only doing what the Christians have been doing all along"

Wasnt those killings from the Catholic church, not so much from the Anabaptist or waldenes?

 

[hobbs27]

John 5:47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

So this verse is saying that every Jew born from the time of Moses to the time of Jesus never received salvation? That is way more than a temporary blindness.

Salvation is only of Christ! And whats up with this temporary blindness?

 

[gemcgrew]

Don't forget MrDodger, the Jews were 'temporarily' blinded, like Paul, just for a longer period of time. Don't worry, God will take care of them, just like He did Paul.

Don't forget, "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
Whether a person is Jew or Gentile, if he is not in Christ, he is not one of God's people. Does not matter if he observes all the Jewish rituals and ceremonies.

 

[gemcgrew]

Do you not know about all the killings 4th and 5th century. Hitler said refering to persucuting the jews "I am only doing what the Christians have been doing all along"

Do you not know that the greatest act of injustice in human history was determined and performed by God? "For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."

Do you see a good and perfect purpose?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Salvation is only of Christ! And whats up with this temporary blindness?

But weren't there some saints whose souls were secure but not saved in the Old Testament? Salvation is of God's grace. He can forgive whomever. Didn't Jesus forgive a woman in Luke? He wasn't on the cross yet. Luke 7:48-50

 

[hobbs27]

But weren't there some saints whose souls were secure but not saved in the Old Testament? Salvation is of God's grace. He can forgive whomever. Didn't Jesus forgive a woman in Luke? He wasn't on the cross yet. Luke 7:48-50

Yes, Job knew his redeamer lived.Remember the witch of endor raised Samuel from a sleep in paradise, the same place Christ and the thief on the cross went the day they died.
That was the old earth, before the Gospel, and people died in the hope that the Savior would come soon.We live in the knowledge that he has already come.
Jesus is the way! The only way!

 

[Artfuldodger]

If Old Testament believers didn’t know the Name of Jesus, what was required of them to be saved? What Abraham did was to cast himself totally on the Lord and trust him. He did not know how God was going to save him, but he trusted that God would find a way. We know now that the way that God found to save Abraham was through Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection. However, Abraham did not know that, he just trusted blindly that God would find a way. The important thing is that the faith he had is the same faith as ours. We may have more knowledge now about how faith works, but still the core of our faith today is coming to God as our only hope and looking to him for shelter.

http://loveintruth.com/amf-docs/otsaints.htm

 

[Artfuldodger]

I said grace earlier, now I want to add faith.

 

[Lowjack]

If Old Testament believers didn’t know the Name of Jesus, what was required of them to be saved? What Abraham did was to cast himself totally on the Lord and trust him. He did not know how God was going to save him, but he trusted that God would find a way. We know now that the way that God found to save Abraham was through Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection. However, Abraham did not know that, he just trusted blindly that God would find a way. The important thing is that the faith he had is the same faith as ours. We may have more knowledge now about how faith works, but still the core of our faith today is coming to God as our only hope and looking to him for shelter.

http://loveintruth.com/amf-docs/otsaints.htm

Very Good !
Most people think God's grace began at the cross and are still confuse as to the purpose of The Law.again I'll repeat the Law was not given for salvation , it was given as "sanctification".

 

[1gr8bldr]

Do you not know that the greatest act of injustice in human history was determined and performed by God? "For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."

Do you see a good and perfect purpose?

You evidently don't know what happened back then. No way God ordained that Christians kill Christians . That people be tied up, forced to take the Wine/bread of the Lord's supper by stuffing down their throats

 

[gemcgrew]

You evidently don't know what happened back then. No way God ordained that Christians kill Christians . That people be tied up, forced to take the Wine/bread of the Lord's supper by stuffing down their throats

Why not, for a good purpose? I would say that it is clearly taught in the Bible that God's will determines everything. Nothing exists and nothing happens without God actively willing it and causing it to happen or exist. We are talking about almighty God, creator of all things. There is not one thing that exists or happens that he has not decreed and caused.

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" (Isaiah 46:10)

"Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father." (Matthew 10:29)

"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." (Proverbs 16:4)

"And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" (Daniel 4:35)

 

[gemcgrew]

Most people think God's grace began at the cross and are still confuse as to the purpose of The Law.again I'll repeat the Law was not given for salvation , it was given as "sanctification".

"Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 5:20,21)

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." (Galatians 3:19-25)

 

[Ronnie T]

Why not, for a good purpose? I would say that it is clearly taught in the Bible that God's will determines everything. Nothing exists and nothing happens without God actively willing it and causing it to happen or exist. We are talking about almighty God, creator of all things. There is not one thing that exists or happens that he has not decreed and caused.
"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" (Isaiah 46:10)

"Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father." (Matthew 10:29)

"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." (Proverbs 16:4)

"And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" (Daniel 4:35)

And I will continue to say that you are incorrect in how you believe God uses His almighty power.
It isn't a matter of how much power the God of all things has. It's a matter of whether God "allows" things to happen outside his constraint.

 

[Lowjack]

None of the apostles ever taught a church to observe a sabbath.
They all quite did the opposite.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

85 Times the Apostles are mentioned keeping the Sabbath and teaching;
http://www.eliyah.com/85times.html

 

[Artfuldodger]

Do you not know that the greatest act of injustice in human history was determined and performed by God? "For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."

Do you see a good and perfect purpose?

It's kinda creepy to think about it that way. How would you explain that to someone who has never heard about God & Jesus?

 

[Artfuldodger]

So there is nothing in the New Covenant about following and keeping God's commandments? “If you love me, you will keep my commandments" is one verse I remember. Keeping commandments was never about salvation but the commandments are still here.
Mt 19:16-19 "And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." He *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Now we could also look at keeping Jesus' commandments:
Jn 15:10-12 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love. "These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.
1 Cor 14:37 "If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment."
Mt 28:20 "teaching them to observe all that I commanded you".
John 13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 2 John 5 says, "And now I ask you, lady, not as writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another."
Matthew 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."