hayseed_theology
Senior Member
I cut the barrel down tonight. Will post pics and write up tomorrow on my lunch break. Too tired to do it tonight.
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Another Lever Gun Project **Update 8/23/15**
- Thread starter hayseed_theology
- Start date
hayseed_theology
Senior Member
Update #1 6/12/14
Well, I cut down the barrel last night. I have to admit, even though I've done it before, the first few strokes of the hacksaw require a lot more courage than effort.
Last time I cut down a barrel, I simply used adjustable clamps to hold it down. That worked, but not well. I have a vise now, so I wanted to use it. But, a vise is a good way to mar and even crush a receiver or barrel. The best way to hold a barrel in a vise is with properly cut wood blocks.
I cut a couple equal size blocks out of a 2"x8" chunk that I had sitting around. Clamp them together. Using a spade bit, drill down between them in the center. 11/16" would have worked best for this barrel, but the closest I had was a 5/8". I used a wood rasp to open it up a little more.
Works great for clamping the gun in the vise.
Tools: scrap wood, saw, drill, spade bit, c-clamp, wood rasp, tape measure, vise
Cost: Free
Well, I cut down the barrel last night. I have to admit, even though I've done it before, the first few strokes of the hacksaw require a lot more courage than effort.
Last time I cut down a barrel, I simply used adjustable clamps to hold it down. That worked, but not well. I have a vise now, so I wanted to use it. But, a vise is a good way to mar and even crush a receiver or barrel. The best way to hold a barrel in a vise is with properly cut wood blocks.
I cut a couple equal size blocks out of a 2"x8" chunk that I had sitting around. Clamp them together. Using a spade bit, drill down between them in the center. 11/16" would have worked best for this barrel, but the closest I had was a 5/8". I used a wood rasp to open it up a little more.
Works great for clamping the gun in the vise.
Tools: scrap wood, saw, drill, spade bit, c-clamp, wood rasp, tape measure, vise
Cost: Free
Attachments
hayseed_theology
Senior Member
Update #2 6/12/14
I decided to take 3 7/16" off the barrel. That should put the barrel length just a shade over 16.75".
I start by re-measuring the barrel using the cleaning rod method. I am paranoid about measuring and re-measuring after I took too much off the stock on my last project. The old saying rings true, "You can always take more off, but it's a lot harder to put it back."
I measure 3 7/16" and wrap the barrel with a piece of blue painters tape. This serves several purposes: 1) mark the spot, 2) protect the gun from unnecessary scratches, and 3) if I am very careful in applying and lining it up, it should give me a near perfectly even reference line around the barrel.
I used the collars again to help guide the hacksaw. This isn't necessary, but it's cheap insurance. I feel like it helps keep the cut square to the bore so you have less work to do afterward. I used the backside of my caliper to measure from the muzzle to the collar to make sure that it is square to the bore.
Throw it in the vise using our freshly made clamp blocks. Take a deep breath, and start cutting. It doesn't take very long to cut. Obviously, the cut is pretty rough. I started cleaning it up by touching it up against the belt/disc sander. Belt is 120 grit. Disc is 220 grit. These are just used to clean it up initially. It will take more work with files and sandpaper, but those help keep it square and remove saw marks. When using power tools on guns, always be careful. You can mess stuff up in a hurry. It can all be done by hand, but power tools make it a little quicker.
And of course, we will use the crown cutting tool on it later.
Tools: vise, wood vise blocks, painters tape, 2 piece collars, hacksaw, belt/disc sander
Cost: Free
I decided to take 3 7/16" off the barrel. That should put the barrel length just a shade over 16.75".
I start by re-measuring the barrel using the cleaning rod method. I am paranoid about measuring and re-measuring after I took too much off the stock on my last project. The old saying rings true, "You can always take more off, but it's a lot harder to put it back."
I measure 3 7/16" and wrap the barrel with a piece of blue painters tape. This serves several purposes: 1) mark the spot, 2) protect the gun from unnecessary scratches, and 3) if I am very careful in applying and lining it up, it should give me a near perfectly even reference line around the barrel.
I used the collars again to help guide the hacksaw. This isn't necessary, but it's cheap insurance. I feel like it helps keep the cut square to the bore so you have less work to do afterward. I used the backside of my caliper to measure from the muzzle to the collar to make sure that it is square to the bore.
Throw it in the vise using our freshly made clamp blocks. Take a deep breath, and start cutting. It doesn't take very long to cut. Obviously, the cut is pretty rough. I started cleaning it up by touching it up against the belt/disc sander. Belt is 120 grit. Disc is 220 grit. These are just used to clean it up initially. It will take more work with files and sandpaper, but those help keep it square and remove saw marks. When using power tools on guns, always be careful. You can mess stuff up in a hurry. It can all be done by hand, but power tools make it a little quicker.
And of course, we will use the crown cutting tool on it later.
Tools: vise, wood vise blocks, painters tape, 2 piece collars, hacksaw, belt/disc sander
Cost: Free
Attachments
mark-7mag
Useless Billy Director of transpotation
Man I love reading your post Hayseed! Thanks for sharing...I have a Marlin 336 .35 that I want to dissasemble, clean and then reblue and re stain the stock. Ive saved your post from when you did yours. I'm afraid I want be able to put it back together.lol
Sharps40
Senior Member
Very nicely done. Gettin to be more fun with each try and lots more ideas buzzin round in there too huh?
hayseed_theology
Senior Member
Thanks! Get yourself a little gunsmith screwdriver set and watch a bunch of youtube videos! I guarantee you can take it apart and put it back together. If you run into a snag, take some pics and post 'em here in the Gunsmith section. I'm sure Sharps40 could tell you how to get it back together. Some of his old threads have great explanations and pics of reblueing and refinishing stocks.
Man, that's the worst part of it! So many ideas, so little time and money. I've got 3 or 4 build ideas rolling around in my head right now, and that's just for 336's!
mark-7mag
Useless Billy Director of transpotation
hayseed_theology
Senior Member
The next step is filing and sanding the crown. I want the crown flat and smooth before I use the cutting tool. Then, I will polish the crown with some 600-800-1000 grit sandpaper.
Here is another video from Larry Potterfield that gives a quick overview of the process:
So I have learned some stuff about files in the past year. I learned enough to know that I had screwed all mine up. #1 rule is don't saw back and forth with the file. It only cuts one direction - on the forward stroke. Pulling the file back across your work will bend the teeth over and dull the file in a hurry.
I've never been gentle with my files. Why would you? They are hardened metal, right? Well, what you have is the equivalent of a hundred little knife blades that cut metal away. Even though the file is very hard, all those little edges are fragile. If you mistreat it, you will ruin those sharp edges and dull your file.
Use chalk to coat the file and keep it from clogging. Also, clean out the file often to keep the chips from gouging your work. It turns out that I was doing everything wrong. When I hold my file up to the light at the right angle, I can see the flattened teeth, gouges, and dings. All those things translate into a poor finish on the metal.
I've got a new 10" smooth cut mill file on order so I can finish cleaning up the crown and possible do some drawfiling on the receiver to remove pitting.
This video is a good primer on files:
Here is another video from Larry Potterfield that gives a quick overview of the process:
So I have learned some stuff about files in the past year. I learned enough to know that I had screwed all mine up. #1 rule is don't saw back and forth with the file. It only cuts one direction - on the forward stroke. Pulling the file back across your work will bend the teeth over and dull the file in a hurry.
I've never been gentle with my files. Why would you? They are hardened metal, right? Well, what you have is the equivalent of a hundred little knife blades that cut metal away. Even though the file is very hard, all those little edges are fragile. If you mistreat it, you will ruin those sharp edges and dull your file.
Use chalk to coat the file and keep it from clogging. Also, clean out the file often to keep the chips from gouging your work. It turns out that I was doing everything wrong. When I hold my file up to the light at the right angle, I can see the flattened teeth, gouges, and dings. All those things translate into a poor finish on the metal.
I've got a new 10" smooth cut mill file on order so I can finish cleaning up the crown and possible do some drawfiling on the receiver to remove pitting.
This video is a good primer on files:
ted_BSR
Senior Member
Nice work Hayseed. Those "before" pics actually look pretty rough. She must have been a real pig when you started. I can't wait to see the end product.
hayseed_theology
Senior Member
Update 7/7/14
Man, it's been almost a month since I've had a chance to work on the Revelation. June was a busy month. Hopefully, July isn't as bad. I did a little work last night.
Shortening the barrel obviously necessitates shortening the magazine tube. I want it to end up about 1/2" shorter than the barrel. Normally, I would cut off the mag tube on the receiver side. This leaves the barrel band relief notch and holes for end cap screw still intact. However, I don't like how far back the forward barrel band sat on this gun. It wouldn't look good with the shortened barrel. So I cut off from the muzzle end of the mag tube.
I used the same wood blocks in the vise, but the barrel was slightly larger than the mag tube so it wasn't a great hold. I took up the extra space with a shop paper towel. I used one of the collars and kept the hacksaw right up against it. After cutting it off, I used a couple files to clean up and deburr the cut.
After that, I decided to use the cut off blank from the mag tube to practice drilling the new holes for the mag tube end cap screw. For that screw you need two holes (one larger than the other) located perfectly across from each other. I decided that the best way to do that was to start with a center punch. Clamp the piece in the vise on the drill press. Start with the smaller drill bit and cross drill through both sides. Then, without moving the piece, switch to a larger bit. The bit should still be centered over the hole and should pretty much follow the already drilled hole.
It sounds pretty simple, especially on a drill press - you just cross drill a round tube, and then open up the top hole with a larger bit. So far, I have found it nearly impossible. I have tried about a dozen times, and I have yet to get it right. The holes just don't line up right. I had no idea it would be so hard to get two centered holes. I am really glad I decided to practice on the cut off first! I have done some reading on the net, and it sounds like it's actually pretty tricky to get it right without some sort of jig. So, it looks like the best solution for me is to order the Williams sight/scope drilling jig. I had planned on ordering one at some point, but I hadn't planned on needing it so soon. With that, I should be able to cross drill a perfectly centered hole.
Man, it's been almost a month since I've had a chance to work on the Revelation. June was a busy month. Hopefully, July isn't as bad. I did a little work last night.
Shortening the barrel obviously necessitates shortening the magazine tube. I want it to end up about 1/2" shorter than the barrel. Normally, I would cut off the mag tube on the receiver side. This leaves the barrel band relief notch and holes for end cap screw still intact. However, I don't like how far back the forward barrel band sat on this gun. It wouldn't look good with the shortened barrel. So I cut off from the muzzle end of the mag tube.
I used the same wood blocks in the vise, but the barrel was slightly larger than the mag tube so it wasn't a great hold. I took up the extra space with a shop paper towel. I used one of the collars and kept the hacksaw right up against it. After cutting it off, I used a couple files to clean up and deburr the cut.
After that, I decided to use the cut off blank from the mag tube to practice drilling the new holes for the mag tube end cap screw. For that screw you need two holes (one larger than the other) located perfectly across from each other. I decided that the best way to do that was to start with a center punch. Clamp the piece in the vise on the drill press. Start with the smaller drill bit and cross drill through both sides. Then, without moving the piece, switch to a larger bit. The bit should still be centered over the hole and should pretty much follow the already drilled hole.
It sounds pretty simple, especially on a drill press - you just cross drill a round tube, and then open up the top hole with a larger bit. So far, I have found it nearly impossible. I have tried about a dozen times, and I have yet to get it right. The holes just don't line up right. I had no idea it would be so hard to get two centered holes. I am really glad I decided to practice on the cut off first! I have done some reading on the net, and it sounds like it's actually pretty tricky to get it right without some sort of jig. So, it looks like the best solution for me is to order the Williams sight/scope drilling jig. I had planned on ordering one at some point, but I hadn't planned on needing it so soon. With that, I should be able to cross drill a perfectly centered hole.
Attachments
Sharps40
Senior Member
Yep. Drill bit walking over a concave then convex surface and outta line holes.
The jug will help with the top hole. The bottom hole not so much since there is still a long bendy length in the tube unsupported.
After drillin top-back out bit - leave jig on- center punch lower hole thru jig-drill back thru jij and drill slow thru the second hole. Both holes should line up well enough now. (
Ya can make a home centering jig. Metal bar or round W/3 holes. Center hole to guide bit/punch. Evenly spaced outer holes with pins. Place on tube- twist till pins bare on sides- centerpunch and or drill. Functional if a bit harder to clamp or level up.
But you will also LOVE the scissors jig.
The jug will help with the top hole. The bottom hole not so much since there is still a long bendy length in the tube unsupported.
After drillin top-back out bit - leave jig on- center punch lower hole thru jig-drill back thru jij and drill slow thru the second hole. Both holes should line up well enough now. (
Ya can make a home centering jig. Metal bar or round W/3 holes. Center hole to guide bit/punch. Evenly spaced outer holes with pins. Place on tube- twist till pins bare on sides- centerpunch and or drill. Functional if a bit harder to clamp or level up.
But you will also LOVE the scissors jig.
hayseed_theology
Senior Member
Update 7/11/14
Today, I worked on a sleeve for the barrel band screw that goes through the forend. This screw was broken when I bought the gun. I ordered a replacement from Numrich.
It appears that there was lot of play between the screw, wood, and notch in the barrel. It appears that under recoil the screw would slam forward which ultimately bent the screw and misshaped the barrel relief.
It seemed that the best way to ensure a better fit and take out all that play was with some sort of shim or sleeve. I decided to make a sleeve out of a brass drift punch I had laying around (it came with the scout rail that I put on the original Lever Gun project).
The screw measured .120" exactly so a #31 drill was the right choice. The hole in the forend measured just over .180". When I started out, the punch measured .253" in diameter. So what I needed to do was drill a hole dead center for a couple inches with the #31 drill bit. Then turn the brass rod down to .180" to fit in the wood snug.
Getting a hole drilled dead center length wise in a piece of round stock can be tricky. I began by cutting a piece of 2"x6" that was about 3.5" long. I locked it in the drill press vise. I then drilled a hole in the wood about 3" deep with a 1/4" drill bit that measured .251". This was to hold the brass rod. I wanted it to be a pretty snug fit. WITHOUT MOVING ANYTHING (that's the key to this whole deal), I removed the 1/4" drill bit. Dropped the already center punched brass rod into the 1/4" hole in the wood. I started the hole with a center drill bit, then switched to the #31 bit. All the while, I made sure nothing moved. I then drilled down 2" with the small drill bit. This gave me a hole the correct size centered and drilled length wise down the rod. You can see in the pics where I am drilling the small hole and then checking the screw in it.
Now that I had my hole, I needed to reduce the overall diameter of the the rod. I chucked it in the drill press and started turning it at 3000 rpm. I used a couple files to remove the material. I was constantly chalking, filing, cleaning the file with a wire brush, and rechalking. Finally I got it down to about .175".
I cut it at about an 1" long and tested it in the forend. It was very close and required just a little bit of filing to make it fit just right. I cleaned off all the burrs and test it. It turned out great! The hole is pretty well centered through the entire sleeve. It's not perfect but that's about as good as I can do with the equipment that I have.
It is a little larger than the barrel notch, so I will have to widen it just a smidge just to make it fit a little better. But, it fits close enough to go together even now. A little more work and it will be perfect.
The whole thing took me about 2 hours. Replacing the screw would have been a short term fix, but I think this will last for a long time.
Tools: Drill press and vise, files, digital caliper, brass rod, chalk, brush, scrap wood, various drill bits
Cost: $14 because I had to order a small set of center drills
Today, I worked on a sleeve for the barrel band screw that goes through the forend. This screw was broken when I bought the gun. I ordered a replacement from Numrich.
It appears that there was lot of play between the screw, wood, and notch in the barrel. It appears that under recoil the screw would slam forward which ultimately bent the screw and misshaped the barrel relief.
It seemed that the best way to ensure a better fit and take out all that play was with some sort of shim or sleeve. I decided to make a sleeve out of a brass drift punch I had laying around (it came with the scout rail that I put on the original Lever Gun project).
The screw measured .120" exactly so a #31 drill was the right choice. The hole in the forend measured just over .180". When I started out, the punch measured .253" in diameter. So what I needed to do was drill a hole dead center for a couple inches with the #31 drill bit. Then turn the brass rod down to .180" to fit in the wood snug.
Getting a hole drilled dead center length wise in a piece of round stock can be tricky. I began by cutting a piece of 2"x6" that was about 3.5" long. I locked it in the drill press vise. I then drilled a hole in the wood about 3" deep with a 1/4" drill bit that measured .251". This was to hold the brass rod. I wanted it to be a pretty snug fit. WITHOUT MOVING ANYTHING (that's the key to this whole deal), I removed the 1/4" drill bit. Dropped the already center punched brass rod into the 1/4" hole in the wood. I started the hole with a center drill bit, then switched to the #31 bit. All the while, I made sure nothing moved. I then drilled down 2" with the small drill bit. This gave me a hole the correct size centered and drilled length wise down the rod. You can see in the pics where I am drilling the small hole and then checking the screw in it.
Now that I had my hole, I needed to reduce the overall diameter of the the rod. I chucked it in the drill press and started turning it at 3000 rpm. I used a couple files to remove the material. I was constantly chalking, filing, cleaning the file with a wire brush, and rechalking. Finally I got it down to about .175".
I cut it at about an 1" long and tested it in the forend. It was very close and required just a little bit of filing to make it fit just right. I cleaned off all the burrs and test it. It turned out great! The hole is pretty well centered through the entire sleeve. It's not perfect but that's about as good as I can do with the equipment that I have.
It is a little larger than the barrel notch, so I will have to widen it just a smidge just to make it fit a little better. But, it fits close enough to go together even now. A little more work and it will be perfect.
The whole thing took me about 2 hours. Replacing the screw would have been a short term fix, but I think this will last for a long time.
Tools: Drill press and vise, files, digital caliper, brass rod, chalk, brush, scrap wood, various drill bits
Cost: $14 because I had to order a small set of center drills
Attachments
Last edited:
Sharps40
Senior Member
Cool!
hayseed_theology
Senior Member
Thanks for the tip. I don't have a center punch narrow enough to fit through the jig. Reckon I can just grind a point on a regular ole punch?
Sharps40
Senior Member
Yep. That'll work.
hayseed_theology
Senior Member
Update #1 7/13/14
Quick post while on lunch break...
I opened up the screw relief notch in the barrel a little using a 3/16" round file. The brass sleeve for the barrel band screw fits perfect now. There is no back and forth play in the forend, but it is not under any pressure. Hopefully it performs well when I get the chance to do some shooting.
Next, I worked on cutting the crown on the muzzle. I used the 79 degree crown facing tool that I had purchased from Brownell's a while back. I wanted to be able to apply even downward pressure, but I was struggling to figure out how to clamp it. I ended up using a hole saw to drill hole in my workbench. Using the drill press vise and my wooden blocks, I am able to clamp the gun vertically where it is easy to work on the muzzle. I filed a little more then started using the cutter.
The cutter is not a slow process, but it's not a fast one either. I stopped to clean up the chips and reapply oil ever 1-2 turns. It came out pretty well. I will take some 800 and 1000 grit paper to it later to polish it up.
A muzzle radius cutter from Brownell's should be arriving in the mail this week along with the Williams sight/scope jig. That will finish off the outside edges of the muzzle.
I wanted to work on cutting the dovetail for the front sight. I had bought a Nicholson 6" slim, smooth cut triangular file from Sears a few weeks ago. For sight work, it is best to have at least one safe side (no cutting teeth) on the file . So, I put a grinding bit in the drill press and went to work. Go slow when grinding off the teeth. It needs to be even, and you don't want to over heat the file because it will change the temper. Just to make sure I didn't overheat it, I dipped it in cool water occasionally, but I think I was ok because it never got too hot to touch.
I will post about cutting the dovetail after I get off work this evening.
Quick post while on lunch break...
I opened up the screw relief notch in the barrel a little using a 3/16" round file. The brass sleeve for the barrel band screw fits perfect now. There is no back and forth play in the forend, but it is not under any pressure. Hopefully it performs well when I get the chance to do some shooting.
Next, I worked on cutting the crown on the muzzle. I used the 79 degree crown facing tool that I had purchased from Brownell's a while back. I wanted to be able to apply even downward pressure, but I was struggling to figure out how to clamp it. I ended up using a hole saw to drill hole in my workbench. Using the drill press vise and my wooden blocks, I am able to clamp the gun vertically where it is easy to work on the muzzle. I filed a little more then started using the cutter.
The cutter is not a slow process, but it's not a fast one either. I stopped to clean up the chips and reapply oil ever 1-2 turns. It came out pretty well. I will take some 800 and 1000 grit paper to it later to polish it up.
A muzzle radius cutter from Brownell's should be arriving in the mail this week along with the Williams sight/scope jig. That will finish off the outside edges of the muzzle.
I wanted to work on cutting the dovetail for the front sight. I had bought a Nicholson 6" slim, smooth cut triangular file from Sears a few weeks ago. For sight work, it is best to have at least one safe side (no cutting teeth) on the file . So, I put a grinding bit in the drill press and went to work. Go slow when grinding off the teeth. It needs to be even, and you don't want to over heat the file because it will change the temper. Just to make sure I didn't overheat it, I dipped it in cool water occasionally, but I think I was ok because it never got too hot to touch.
I will post about cutting the dovetail after I get off work this evening.
Attachments
Sharps40
Senior Member
Dayum. I hadda pay for my safe sided file. Ya grind one side or two?
tree cutter 08
Senior Member
Looking good Chris, lots of time involved I know.
hayseed_theology
Senior Member
Ha. I couldn't afford the Brownell's safe sided file! They want almost $50 for it! That Nicholson file was 6 bucks. I just ground one side off. I figured I could always turn it to where just one side was cutting.
Here's the bad part. I should have gone back and read your posts on cutting the dovetail BEFORE I tried it. I killed a fresh hacksaw blade and my brand spankin' new custom safe sided triangular file on that stinkin' hardened jig. So I gotta make me a new one! It absolutely destroyed that file.
Thanks, man. It does take some time, but I really enjoy it. Just wish I had more time for it. How's life? I heard y'all were gonna be moving.
Sharps40
Senior Member
Yeah, files and hacksaw blades dont last too long when yere tryin to get all the way to the bottom and into the corners of that there jig. Sure makes the tools sing and takes the cut right out of em! One to three dovetailes and ye'll be tired and out gettin new files and saw blades! Cheeper than a mill or lathe and cross slide though.
