Churches - Darned if you do/don't

[brutally honest]

And I take issue with no fornication.

You're not the first!

 

[oldfella1962]

First drag queen certified as a candidate for United Methodist ministry 'speaking in a new way to new people'

(RNS) — Isaac Simmons is the first openly gay man to be certified within the Illinois Great Rivers Conference and, as far as anyone can tell, the first drag queen certified in the United Methodist Church.

religionnews.com

She can keep her fiery tongue to herself thank you very much!
Not judging, just not my cup of tea.

 

[brutally honest]

They are saved but they want to wear dresses and lipstick as full grown heterosexual men.

That's not repentance. Jesus said we must die to self and take up our cross daily.

 

[oldfella1962]

Believers,

Say a tranny became saved. Is there scripture that says that they can't present as a woman anymore?

Wow that's a good question! I bet a lot of churches are dealing with issues like that these days.

 

[oldfella1962]

Typical enough that you can buy trading cards:

Home - Queer Clergy Trading Cards

queerclergytradingcards.org

 

[ambush80]

"With mankind" tells me it's with others.

Other believers will disagree with your discernment. If we can agree on that point then we can just establish that some people interpret the Bible differently than others.

 

[oldfella1962]

Is "Abusers of themselves" done alone or with others?

I would be afraid to ask Penny Cost a question like that.

 

[ambush80]

Wow that's a good question! I bet a lot of churches are dealing with issues like that these days.

It's interesting to watch.

 

[oldfella1962]

And I take issue with no fornication. That's harder to follow that don't eat shrimp or catfish or pulled pork...which is hard to do.

Many preachers take issue with no fornication too, since they can't keep it in their pants on any given day.

 

[oldfella1962]

That's not repentance. Jesus said we must die to self and take up our cross daily.

What EXACTLY does that mean though? Explain - give me an example of "die to self" and "take up our cross daily". How do you - for example - carry these tasks out on a daily basis on any given day?

 

[GT90]

"Wow that's a good question! I bet a lot of churches are dealing with issues like that these days."

From a drive by poster...

A lot of churches are dealing with that or similar questions. My father was a Presbyterian Minister for a short period of time. He was a minister to a predominantly white church in the suburbs of DeKald County where the demographics were changing. The old guard was not ready to accept the new neighbors. Pretty sad.

Also experienced an intown ATL Presbyterian church (my wife's) that hired a female minister. The demographics in area were changing to more liberal. IIRC, the minister had a family member that was gay and pushed acceptance onto the congregation. Big split happened. The church did not survive and was sold to a school.

Some congregations will adapt. Some won't.

 

[ambush80]

What EXACTLY does that mean though? Explain - give me an example of "die to self" and "take up our cross daily". How do you - for example - carry these tasks out on a daily basis on any given day?

One interpretation is "Take up the biggest burden you can and shoulder it for as long as you can"; die to the self that was unwilling to carry that burden or suffer that suffering. Adherence to that would make for some lovely world. Not everyone is made that way.

 

[ambush80]

"Wow that's a good question! I bet a lot of churches are dealing with issues like that these days."

From a drive by poster...

A lot of churches are dealing with that or similar questions. My father was a Presbyterian Minister for a short period of time. He was a minister to a predominantly white church in the suburbs of DeKald County where the demographics were changing. The old guard was not ready to accept the new neighbors. Pretty sad.

Also experienced an intown ATL Presbyterian church (my wife's) that hired a female minister. The demographics in area were changing to more liberal. IIRC, the minister had a family member that was gay and pushed acceptance onto the congregation. Big split happened. The church did not survive and was sold to a school.

Some congregations will adapt. Some won't.

Do you see that as evolution?

 

[GT90]

Do you see that as evolution?

I don't know what the end result was in the first scenario. Not sure if the church is still active....Maybe evolved?

The second, per my post, it did not.

In regards to the second example. Most parishioners found a different church or stopped going. My in laws stopped going. They had so much history and were so tied to that church (plus their age 70+) that they did not have a strong enough urge to find a replacement. I do not think their belief ended. Their participation in organized religion ended. It was almost akin to losing a meeting place with long time friends. There was not a replacement for them.

 

[Ruger#3]

Do you see that as evolution?

I don’t think evolution as much as a reset. The episcopal church added a civil wedding ceremony for gays into the church doctrine in the 70s. It was a major point of contention that caused a split in the church worldwide. Those that left for a newly formed denomination are using doctrine as it was written in the early 1900s.

 

[oldfella1962]

"Wow that's a good question! I bet a lot of churches are dealing with issues like that these days."

From a drive by poster...

A lot of churches are dealing with that or similar questions. My father was a Presbyterian Minister for a short period of time. He was a minister to a predominantly white church in the suburbs of DeKald County where the demographics were changing. The old guard was not ready to accept the new neighbors. Pretty sad.

Also experienced an intown ATL Presbyterian church (my wife's) that hired a female minister. The demographics in area were changing to more liberal. IIRC, the minister had a family member that was gay and pushed acceptance onto the congregation. Big split happened. The church did not survive and was sold to a school.

Some congregations will adapt. Some won't.

Interesting insights! But it makes sense there will be conflicts of sorts - churches don't exist in a vacuum! If a church is serving a community that community will eventually change. The community will change the church, but the church might change the community too.

 

[WaltL1]

I don't know what the end result was in the first scenario. Not sure if the church is still active....Maybe evolved?

The second, per my post, it did not.

In regards to the second example. Most parishioners found a different church or stopped going. My in laws stopped going. They had so much history and were so tied to that church (plus their age 70+) that they did not have a strong enough urge to find a replacement. I do not think their belief ended. Their participation in organized religion ended. It was almost akin to losing a meeting place with long time friends. There was not a replacement for them.

Thats ^ sad. I'm sure they saw their later years a being connected to that church. Tough time in their life to lose that.