Cure for Demons, Medicine or Prayer?

[JB0704]

So basically, God tells us in ancient text how to live, what to do, what not to do, etc. Times start to change, people and modernization diverts people into different ways of living, astraying them away or maybe not even being taught thousands of years later..

The modern deviations from the ancient text are spelled out in the NT (abide under grace, not law). The times changed in the NT, not today. But, many of the basic concepts of the OT are still valid today (and yes, they are universal and not unique to Christianity). A good example is lieing, cheating, murder, etc.

So, when im about to make a dumb decision, I need to fall back on this ancient word and not my intuition ( or free will). That text sure doesnt seem smart in alot of places to me, so it being a tad wiser makes me question...

When you are about to make a "dumb decision," it would be "dumb" to consult the book of Esther, or Jonah, or any of the history books. For wisdom, you got to go to the wisdom books, such as Proverbs, which is still applicable today and works the same for both believers and non-believers. Give it a read, and really, it is the best "training manual" around for being a good man.....thousands of years later.

Ive never have had god speak to me, and yes ive asked. .

Me either. Faith doesn't work like that.

Point is, God should have stepped in and told the boy not to jump. That would have changed things. And made alot more people follow him.

But that also would have elliminated the choice for the boy. If God operated under your parameters (and those claimed by many Christians), we would be mindless robots incapable of choosing God. In that way, there would be no faith and no choice. Instead, we are given a choice to jump or not. It's not God's fault.

A good friend and long-time hunting buddy of mine was killed this spring in a car wreck. Several of the guys wanted to ask God why he let our buddy die at such a young age. The truth is, God didn't let him die, my friend chose to act foolish behind the wheel and caused his own demise. I miss him terribly, and this has been a very tough hunting season for me, but it is not God's fault. The same can be said for most bad things. What if the accident wasn't his fault, well, it could have been the fault of somebody else. I don't see how God has to micro-manage the universe to be God.

 

[JB0704]

Yes. I agree. Time after time I have seen people use both to explain God and his actions, or lack of actions.

If your friend is on an operating table and it is a 50/50 chance of survival and he dies, well then "It was his time" "God wanted him " "He was meant to be in Heaven" "God has plans for him" All comforting lines to say to the grieving family but is any of it true?
Heyyyy, what happened to his free will?

People say things. To me, the comfort is not in whether or not it was their time, it is in the idea that they are not finished. Faith can't exist without free will. Free will cannot exist if everything is already written. You got to look at it from one angle or the other. I think you put too much stock in what people say instead of what logic or even the Bible would indicate when it comes to your perspective on God.

 

[ambush80]

Most people, Christians or not, have excuses for the things they do....agree?

So a murderer doesn't have a choice to murder someone or not? Or a child molester doesn't have a choice, they are predestined by God to do those things? They don't have free will? Yet God tells us not to kill or to hurt children. Does God know that person is going to do those things, yes He does but it doesn't happen because God predestined it, it happens because we have free will to do those things.

Just because God knows what is going to happen means it was chosen by Him to happen (predestination). That's why He tells us not to do this or that, because we will suffer for it. Even I know that if I tell my child not to dive off the top of a ferris wheel because they will die and they do it anyway, and just because I knew it, didn't mean I predestined it for them. They did it by their free will...yet I knew the outcome.

If you could see the future then you would know if he was gonna dive off the ferris wheel. What would be the point of telling him not to? Then again, if you knew the future, you would already knew whether or not you would warn them......


What I've come to realize, most importantly, is that the notion of some super being that can see the future is a ridiculous one and musings on such a thing should be done for amusement purposes only.

 

[bullethead]

People say things. To me, the comfort is not in whether or not it was their time, it is in the idea that they are not finished. Faith can't exist without free will. Free will cannot exist if everything is already written. You got to look at it from one angle or the other. I think you put too much stock in what people say instead of what logic or even the Bible would indicate when it comes to your perspective on God.

I look at it like I don't believe any of it.

 

[SkeeterEater]

I watch Paris Hilton flicks to even my mind

 

[bullethead]

I ask you once again......


If your kid is on top of a ferris wheel and he wants to see if he can fly, but you know he can't and you tell him not to try, because if he does you know that he would die....and pretty much all of us would agree diving off the top of a ferris wheel, you'd probably die. But he does anyway, and he dies just like you knew he would...would that be your will for him? Could you have saved him if he had abided by your will for him?...of course you could.
But because your child has free will, just like all of us have free will....he dove off the ferris wheel anyway...did you know it would happen? of course you did. Could you have saved him by your will had he obeyed? yes of course.

But he perished by his own free will because he did not obey someone that was a tad bit wiser than he was.

If you knew your kid wanted to jump off a ferris wheel would you do everything in your power to stop it from happening whether or not your kid wanted to do it? If you found a suicide note with their intentions would you race to the wheel? If you could stop time and grab them before they jumped would you? We as parents have to use the knowledge we have and are limited. A powerful god does not have those limits(according to it's followers) so YES i fully expect it to be involved in all 7 billion of it's children's decisions....precisely because he is supposed to be capable of handling it without breaking a sweat.

 

[JB0704]

I look at it like I don't believe any of it.

I know, but I also think you use many believer's perspective to justify your lack of belief. Whether you believe or not, if you choose to examine God, or his existence, you might want to start from scratch.

 

[mtnwoman]

If you knew your kid wanted to jump off a ferris wheel would you do everything in your power to stop it from happening whether or not your kid wanted to do it? If you found a suicide note with their intentions would you race to the wheel? If you could stop time and grab them before they jumped would you? We as parents have to use the knowledge we have and are limited. A powerful god does not have those limits(according to it's followers) so YES i fully expect it to be involved in all 7 billion of it's children's decisions....precisely because he is supposed to be capable of handling it without breaking a sweat.

If God did that then we wouldn't have free will and we'd all be robots. We'd all be perfect and we wouldn't be jumping off ferris wheels, nor drinking, nor arguing, nor eating anything that wasn't good for us.

My point in that story was to point out free will, not to debate about the power of God. Yes, He can do anything He wants to.
And I wasn't talking about suicide I was talking about a child doing something disobediently. Like don't do cartwheels on the freeway, the child may not know what could happen, but we do know and we tell them not to do things where they could get hurt and they disobey and get hurt and just because we knew they would get hurt, they still had free will to do it anyway no matter what their father said.

 

[mtnwoman]

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If you could see the futureThat would be the equivalent of saying then you would know if he was gonna dive off the ferris wheel. What would be the point of telling him not to? Then again, if you knew the future, you would already knew whether or not you would warn them......


What I've come to realize, most importantly, is that the notion of some super being that can see the future is a ridiculous one and musings on such a thing should be done for amusement purposes only.

I'm not talking about an adult child, I'm talking about a 2 yr old being disobedient and you're telling them to sit down and buckle up and they don't...not suicide

Well your reality is different than mine, as far as your choice of amusement or what you think amusement is....and you have free will to choose that.

 

[mtnwoman]

I look at it like I don't believe any of it.

Well be glad you have free to choose that way....if you didn't God could make you believe, just like He could make the kid not jump off the ferris wheel.

 

[bullethead]

I know, but I also think you use many believer's perspective to justify your lack of belief. Whether you believe or not, if you choose to examine God, or his existence, you might want to start from scratch.

I have and this is where the journey has taken me so far.

 

[SkeeterEater]

There are no such things as demons / Ghost / Angels / Tooth Faries / Easter Bunny / God or Bigfoot.

IMO

 

[bullethead]

Well be glad you have free to choose that way....if you didn't God could make you believe, just like He could make the kid not jump off the ferris wheel.

Thank an imaginary being that does not exist for something he cannot possibly give me. OKAY

 

[mtnwoman]

Thank an imaginary being that does not exist for something he cannot possibly give me. OKAY

Why are you really here? you obviously are not curious in what others believe, like you stated before, you are only interested in having a come back like this one, that could be insulting to some, trying to just stir up a pot. And I'm sorry for you that you are not more open minded.

What difference does it make what I believe? If I'm wrong, I'll just die and I'll never know the difference.
But if I am right, maybe you should be looking for an asbestos suit

 

[mtnwoman]

Thank an imaginary being that does not exist for something he cannot possibly give me. OKAY

I'll thank Him right after I pray for you. And you're probably gonna say you don't need prayer blah blah blah, but I'm prayin' anyway.

 

[mtnwoman]

There are no such things as demons / Ghost / Angels / Tooth Faries / Easter Bunny / God or Bigfoot.

IMO

Well you have every right to your opinion, just like the rest of us do.

 

[mtnwoman]

I have and this is where the journey has taken me so far.

Maybe you should start a little higher up than us. Just pretend for a moment that it's possible that God is real, I mean no body can really prove that either way, can they?
So just pretend God is real and ask Him to reveal Himself to you, and even if you've done it before, do it again. Just use your imagination.

 

[SkeeterEater]

Maybe you should start a little higher up than us. Just pretend for a moment that it's possible that God is real, I mean no body can really prove that either way, can they?
So just pretend God is real and ask Him to reveal Himself to you, and even if you've done it before, do it again. Just use your imagination.

So your asking us to imagine things?

 

[bullethead]

Why are you really here? you obviously are not curious in what others believe, like you stated before, you are only interested in having a come back like this one, that could be insulting to some, trying to just stir up a pot. And I'm sorry for you that you are not more open minded.

What difference does it make what I believe? If I'm wrong, I'll just die and I'll never know the difference.
But if I am right, maybe you should be looking for an asbestos suit

I am here for the same reason you are here. Civil conversations about beliefs. They turn into thrusts and jabs when one side decides to take it there. I am trying to figure out how an individual can explain the unexplainable. How can a person know what God wants when we are continually told we cannot understand God? How can one person understand him better than another without ever actually talking to him?
Insulting is being told I am going to burn if I do not believe a certain way. Because clearly of all the worlds religions and all the worlds beliefs it is either the Christian way or no way. Believe or Burn. Very Open Minded indeed.

 

[mtnwoman]

So your asking us to imagine things?

Yeah like you imagine hitting that 48 point buck...biggest buck ever nailed.....ever.