Evolution debate will soon be history

[Miguel Cervantes]

You come to an Atheist/Agnostic board to be the odd man out in every argument (Omega complex maybe?) And then play the victim?

I provided a point: Time has a physical effect on the universe.

Your 1st answer: NO FACTS NO FACTS NO FACTS

Your 2nd answer: Yeah you can believe what you want, but when you discuss your beliefs with others of the same mindset in a forum board dedicated to such, YOU'RE PERSECUTING ME AND MY BELIEFS.

Let me guess the next one: WELL YOU WON'T BE HERE MUCH LONGER, NOBODY DISAGREES WITH ME AN GETS AWAY WITH IT.

Look, I didn't go after you, nor did I attack your beliefs. If you're so sensitive about your faith, perhaps this board isn't right for you.

So the point of the thread was merely for all atheist on this board to debate what they all can agree on through a common belief?

Were it not for us evil trolling Christians you boys would have the shortest threads on the entire forum. Unless of course, you merely wanted a venue for bashing Christians, because after all, even void of a religious participation in them, that is what they all come down to in the end.

In terms of science, there is a plethera of time based theories that exist to help explain what they observe and sooth the human need for grasping a finite concept in an infinite universe. The theories are constantly being tested and occasionally altered or tossed out all together in light of newly discovered evidence.

Personally, I've never been one much to coddle to theories. Just another word for over educated conjecture. Although science has it's place in this world it is by no means the be all to end all of answers in this vast universe.

 

[ASVP Viking]

So the point of the thread was merely for all atheist on this board to debate what they all can agree on

That's the Political Discussion board. There is no shortage of conversation when the mind is freed of the neurological disorder known as religion.

Without people going against religion, you wouldn't have a computer to type on. You'd likely be sitting in a small hut, dying of tetanus,
excommunicated from the Catholic church for not paying money to the church.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

That's the Political Discussion board. There is no shortage of conversation when the mind is freed of the neurological disorder known as religion.

Without people going against religion, you wouldn't have a computer to type on. You'd likely be sitting in a small hut, dying of tetanus,
excommunicated from the Catholic church for not paying money to the church.

That certainly lends cause for reflection upon where the actual phrase "over educated idiot" was coined, now doesn't it?

 

[ASVP Viking]

That certainly lends cause for reflection upon where the actual phrase "over educated idiot" was coined, now doesn't it?

Which is better: Willful idiot, or over educated idiot?

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

Which is better: Willful idiot, or over educated idiot?

Gee, what a conundrum.

 

[mtnwoman]

Atheists on this forum are always asking for proof that God is real, for one shred of concrete evidence that he exist. I ask for one solid concrete piece of evidence that God does not exist. I'm not trying to be mean or rude to anyone and if I come off that way I aplogize in advance, I would just like to know the evidence on to why he is not real.

There is no proof that God's not real. It's just an opinion. Just like I have an opinion/belief that there is. It's by faith that I believe, but faith grows and the more that I know that I know, the more I know that I know.

 

[mtnwoman]

You come to an Atheist/Agnostic board to be the odd man out in every argument (Omega complex maybe?) And then play the victim?

I provided a point: Time has a physical effect on the universe.

Your 1st answer: NO FACTS NO FACTS NO FACTS

Your 2nd answer: Yeah you can believe what you want, but when you discuss your beliefs with others of the same mindset in a forum board dedicated to such, YOU'RE PERSECUTING ME AND MY BELIEFS.

Let me guess the next one: WELL YOU WON'T BE HERE MUCH LONGER, NOBODY DISAGREES WITH ME AN GETS AWAY WITH IT.

Look, I didn't go after you, nor did I attack your beliefs. If you're so sensitive about your faith, perhaps this board isn't right for you.

Gee what kinda fun debate that would be if everyone agrees on everything. Then we don't even need this thread do we?

This board is right for anyone who wants to come here and it's open for debate, and that means even if they think/believe/speak/debate different than you. There's a gang mentality here just like there is in most threads. One side outweighs the other, does not mean that folks can't come here and debate without feeling as if they need to dodge fiery darts or bullets.

And there's always at least one bully that wants to run everyone who disagrees with them off the playground and that would be the bully that has the most back. I'm not saying you're the bully, I'm just saying. Perhaps all who agree should only play amongst themselves.....I don't think that would include debates though.

 

[mtnwoman]

Blatant disregard for simplistic, elementary arguments makes me think you're a very low quality troll.

Wow!

This type of comment is what makes atheists look bad, is that what you're trying to prove? you're doing well...

 

[mtnwoman]

Non-organic life doesn't exist on Earth.

Wow now I agree with that. Man has made nothing out of nothing on this earth. Nothing has ever been developed or created or discovered that was not already on this earth.
That's convenient, ain't it? It all just happen to bang into place with no mind of creation at all, for all our good use. How could that be? I think it had to take some kind of intelligent mind to make everything work together like clockwork on this earth.

 

[atlashunter]

There is no proof that God's not real. It's just an opinion. Just like I have an opinion/belief that there is. It's by faith that I believe, but faith grows and the more that I know that I know, the more I know that I know.

Ditto for leprechauns.

 

[Ronnie T]

Oh, by the way, I just heard that a NEW planet has been "discovered". Did it exist prior to its discovery? No, it could not have.
If it had existed, science would have known it?
Agree? Science doesn't miss anything.

 

[mtnwoman]

Ditto for leprechauns.

and fairies, too.

 

[mtnwoman]

Oh, by the way, I just heard that a NEW planet has been "discovered". Did it exist prior to its discovery? No, it could not have.
If it had existed, science would have known it?
Agree? Science doesn't miss anything.

Perhaps it's what the bible calls the New Earth....or the other place.

As far as science goes, the Bible says this

Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

And science has proven many many many years later that truly the earth is a circle and is not flat.
Somebody, wants to blame the earth being so called flat on the Christians. That's untrue.....I bet the scientists deemed it as flat until they figured out it wasn't. Whoever else but the Bible said the earth was a circle. And are we dwelling inside something...yyyyy yes, the atmosphere covers us as a tent.

That's OT and at least 400 years before the birth of Christ. Now when did someone discover the earth was round.....maybe 1400 years later? That's just one thing in the bible that man alone could not have known.

It was always round, just like we had gravity all along, and electricity was always possible, and cellphones have always been possible, and cures for diseases have always been possible and are still possible. There are things in the bible that no one, no scientist discovered until the last few centuries....but they were always there....how convenient for us. God knew we would need and use those things and that a scientist would discover it. Nothing here is manmade out of nothing. Everything that is developed or discovered was here from the beginning. And yes we now have new sea creatures...that's also in the bible....when the dead sea becomes alive again with life, the Son of Man will come. In psalms it says, when the deserts bloom the son of man will come. Israel was in a 400 yr drought but now grows some of the best fruit and veggies in the world. Look up the time is nigh. Oh well, I believe it, nobody could've just written that and mysteriously it has come to pass.


Believe it or not. Too many things for me to blow off.

 

[atlashunter]

Perhaps it's what the bible calls the New Earth....or the other place.

As far as science goes, the Bible says this

Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

And science has proven many many many years later that truly the earth is a circle and is not flat.
Somebody, wants to blame the earth being so called flat on the Christians. That's untrue.....I bet the scientists deemed it as flat until they figured out it wasn't. Whoever else but the Bible said the earth was a circle. And are we dwelling inside something...yyyyy yes, the atmosphere covers us as a tent.

That's OT and at least 400 years before the birth of Christ. Now when did someone discover the earth was round.....maybe 1400 years later? That's just one thing in the bible that man alone could not have known.

It was always round, just like we had gravity all along, and electricity was always possible, and cellphones have always been possible, and cures for diseases have always been possible and are still possible. There are things in the bible that no one, no scientist discovered until the last few centuries....but they were always there....how convenient for us. God knew we would need and use those things and that a scientist would discover it. Nothing here is manmade out of nothing. Everything that is developed or discovered was here from the beginning. And yes we now have new sea creatures...that's also in the bible....when the dead sea becomes alive again with life, the Son of Man will come. In psalms it says, when the deserts bloom the son of man will come. Israel was in a 400 yr drought but now grows some of the best fruit and veggies in the world. Look up the time is nigh. Oh well, I believe it, nobody could've just written that and mysteriously it has come to pass.


Believe it or not. Too many things for me to blow off.

Wow that's a convenient after the fact re-interpretation of scripture.

 

[mtnwoman]

Wow that's a convenient after the fact re-interpretation of scripture.

I think I'm missing your point. Could you help me out a bit?

 

[atlashunter]

I think I'm missing your point. Could you help me out a bit?

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/1flat90.html

Here are just a few of the many other passages that prove Bible writers were ignorant of Earth's spherical shape:

Daniel 4:7-8, "I saw a tree of great height at the center of the world. It was large and strong, with its top touching the heavens, and it could be seen from the ends of the earth." This was allegedly an inspired dream, yet it conveys a flat-earth concept, because no matter how tall a tree would be, people on the other side of a spherical earth could not see it.

Matthew 4:8, "The devil took him (Jesus) to a very high mountain and displayed before him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence...." The only plausible reason for the "very high mountain" was that the altitude would make it possible to see to the ends of the earth. Only on a flat earth would this be remotely possible, so the New Testament writers were as ignorant as the Old.

In Genesis 11:4, the people wanted to build a tower up to heaven. If you look at the graphics above, you can see their concept of heavenly bodies under the dome, not all that far away. Presumably, the Lord was afraid they would be able to accomplish their plan, so he caused them to speak various languages. This, of course, is not the reason people speak different languages, but nothing is too fantastic for the ignorant to believe.

The following references show that Bible writers thought there was water above a solid dome with floodgates (look at the graphics again) that could be opened to make it rain:

Job 38:22, "Have you entered the storehouse of the snow, and seen the treasury of the hail?" Look at items two and three in the graphic from the Interpreter's Dictionary, and the intended meaning of this statement becomes very clear.

Psalm 104:3, 13, "You stretch the heavens out like a tent, you build your palace on the waters above.... You water the mountains from your palace." Here God dwells in a palace above the waters over the firmament or dome. To water the mountains, he opens the floodgates. Quite unscientific!

Genesis 1:6-7, "Let there be a dome to divide the water and to keep it in two separate places... and it was done. So Godmade a dome, and it separated the water under it from the water above it." So the NAB and The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible are quite correct in their graphic representations of what the Bible writers believed and taught. How many of you readers believe the earth is flat? The Bible teaches it is!

Christian fundamentalists have used various scriptures to try to prove that Bible writers knew the earth was round. Since I have already shown that these writers thought the earth is flat, if some verses actually do teach that it is round, then there is a contradiction in the Bible and the fundamentalists lose anyway.

Job 38:13-14 is sometimes quoted as a round-earth text: "Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; that it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment." Claim is made that the statement about the earth "turn(ing) as clay to the seal" was a reference to the earth's rotation, but this passage has nothing to do with movement. The word used was haphak, which meant "to convert, to change, or to make clear." It is the same word that was used in Exodus 7 in reference to Aaron's rod turning into a serpent and the waters of Egypt turning to blood, so rather than the word meaning turning in the sense of movement, it meant turning in the sense of changing. The GNB clarifies the meaning in Job 38:14: "Daylight makes the hills and valleys stand out like the folds of a garment, clear as the imprint of a seal on clay." So, far from teaching the revolution of the earth, this was merely a reference to the effects of sunlight in the morning. Notice also that the KJV refers here to "the ends of earth." This would indicate a flat earth, since there are no ends to a globe.

Job 26:7 has also been cited as proof that the writer of this book knew that the earth was a sphere: "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place and hangeth the earth upon nothing." An NAB footnote at this verse says, "The North: used here as a synonym for the firmament, cf. Is. 14:13," (emphasis inserted). Thus, we read, "He stretches out the dome (firmament) over the empty space." In other words, the dome was unsupported in the middle. The reference in Isaiah 14:13 says, "You (King of Babylon) were determined to climb up to heaven and place your throne above the highest stars (see the graphics). You thought you would sit like a king on that mountain in the north where the gods assemble." The "north" was indeed used as a synonym for the heavens or firmament, so the passage was actually speaking of a "mountain in the heavens where the gods assemble."

"He... hangeth the earth upon nothing" simply expressed a Hebrew belief that the flat earth, although supported by pillars, did not rest on the back of Atlas or a turtle or an elephant, as their pagan neighbors believed. In this Job was right but not because he was inspired; otherwise, he wouldn't have said in the same context, "The pillars of the heavens tremble (see the graphics) and are stunned at his thunderous rebuke," (26:11). He thought the thunder was God's voice!

Fundamentalists use Isaiah 40:22 to argue that Earth's rotundity was known to the writer: "It is he (God) that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in." They misunderstand the first half of the verse, which is clarified by the placement of "God's throne" in the NAB graphic, and they avoid the second half. The NAB gives us a proper translation of the verse: "He sits enthroned above the vault (dome) of the earth.... He stretches out the heavens like a veil, spreads them out like a tent to dwell in." See the graphic illustrations again and check the Hebrew concept of firmament as explained in Eerdmans and other reliable Bible dictionaries.

 

[mtnwoman]

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/1flat90.html

I've read that, but thanks for your time.

Besides all that rigamarole..

Try telling some one who lives in the deepest, darkest part of Africa, who's never seen a white man, much less a plane or car, that you flew there....and see if they believe it....yet you know it's true...and you can't prove it because the airplane has flown back into the sky.

Does that mean you didn't fly there? I'm sure they would think you were loco, so I certainly can see why you think that about God.

Some things are possible whether or not you can prove it to someone else.

 

[atlashunter]

I've read that, but thanks for your time.

Besides all that rigamarole..

Try telling some one who lives in the deepest, darkest part of Africa, who's never seen a white man, much less a plane or car, that you flew there....and see if they believe it....yet you know it's true...and you can't prove it because the airplane has flown back into the sky.

Does that mean you didn't fly there? I'm sure they would think you were loco, so I certainly can see why you think that about God.

Some things are possible whether or not you can prove it to someone else.

Man talk about grasping at straws. Spin it however you like but the ancient peoples who wrote the bible understood the earth to be flat. One more little detail that tells us it isn't of divine origin.

 

[mtnwoman]

Man talk about grasping at straws. Spin it however you like but the ancient peoples who wrote the bible understood the earth to be flat. One more little detail that tells us it isn't of divine origin.

I like to sit 'n spin, don't you?

 

[fish hawk]

Where's bullethead???