Farmer’s Perspective of GA Hog Hunters

JAGER

Senior Member
In my opinion, the GON forum has come a long way in the past two years. Not just the forum itself, but the varied background of people who post here. We have enjoyed a few in-depth debates and covered several controversial topics over the past year. Hopefully, we respect each other enough to intelligently discuss the subject below.

I would like to bring two recent observations to the forum’s attention. I would also like to address the problems and offer a solution if you read to the end.

First:
I would like to share a video segment from the “Georgia Farm Monitor”. The Monitor is the only national and state weekly news/information television program dedicated to Georgia's largest industry, which is agriculture. Their staff travels the state to cover stories of interest to farmers and consumers for their weekly 30 minute program. Here is their website http://www.farm-monitor.com/ if you would like to view channels and air times.

Pay particular attention to the farmer experiencing the crop damage. What do the farmer and the UGA County Extension agent believe is the solution to the problem? More importantly, what do they feel is NOT the solution?

<object width="660" height="525"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rQ46YMMk3CM&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rQ46YMMk3CM&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="525"></embed></object>

Our office was contacted three weeks ago by Mark Wildman, the reporter covering the story. They are using our old thermal video footage on file at the television station for this story. Unfortunately, Mr. Nobles (farmer) lives three hours from us and the damage had already been done. He is not the only farmer in Georgia who is feeling the pinch this year and Bleckley County is not the only agricultural area seeking government intervention. The economy and lower commodity prices in 2009 will only make this problem more public.

Second:
I am writing this on the airplane as I return from the 13th Annual Wildlife Damage Management Conference in Sarasota Springs, New York. This conference takes place every two years to promote better understanding of the challenges of managing human-wildlife conflicts and to provide a forum for the wildlife control industry to discuss research, skills and knowledge of wildlife damage management practices.

The conference was attended by the US Department of Agriculture, US Fish & Wildlife, National Park Service, various state Wildlife & Fisheries and various University Research and Extension Centers. In other words, this conference was attended by the state and federal entities which farmers and Farm Bureaus are asking to solve their feral hog problems.

One of the speakers at the conference was from the Invasive Animals Research Center in Australia. He discussed their research and development of a new feral hog “toxin” tested in Australia which uses specific chemicals to target pharmacological weakness of hogs. He shared the results of their ground and aerial bait methods and positive results from the past two years of research. 100% of the hogs were dead within 64 minutes of ingesting the bait and most travelled less than 50 yards from the bait area. The results of the study suggest this is an effective, humane, target-specific, safe and cost effective toxin for feral hog control.

Also, biologists from the National Wildlife Research Center in Fort Collins, Colorado are developing contraceptive hog baits which contain a hormone which makes sows infertile. All sows vaccinated with this drug in 2004 and 2006 are still infertile today. The results of the study suggest this drug is an effective, humane and safe contraceptive for feral hogs.

Current Problems:
Farmer Perceptions- Some farmers “perceive” hunting, dogging and trapping are unproductive hog control methods. Some farmers “perceive” hunters do not kill enough hogs. Some farmers “perceive” hunters only push hogs to their neighbor’s farm. Some farmers “perceive” hunters and trappers relocating hogs are a major part of their crop damage problem. Some farmers “perceive” the only solution will come from government intervention or new technologies.

Hunter Perceptions- Some hunters “perceive” there is NOT a crop damage problem in Georgia. Some hunters “perceive” the farmer is the problem because he won’t allow you to hunt his land. Some hunters “perceive” it is possible to eradicate hogs by hunting. Some hunters “perceive” you must leave a few sows so your kids will have something to hunt. Some hunters “perceive” you should never kill more than you can eat. Some hunters “perceive” there is not a feral hog problem.

USDA Perceptions- The USDA “perceives” they must develop a widespread toxin or contraceptive to resolve a wildlife conflict which is destroying agricultural productivity and hurting the national economy.

Solutions:
The main solution lies in changing the “perception” between farmers and hunters. EVERYTHING in life revolves around “perception”. It doesn’t matter what is right or wrong, it only matters how it is “perceived”. Let me give you an example. There is no scientific evidence which links consuming pork products to the H1N1 virus. Swine flu is NOT transmitted to humans through eating pork. Yet, the governments of China and Russia have already banned imports of pork from Mexico and the United States due to the global H1N1 outbreak. China annually consumes more pork than any other country in the world. So now our pork exports and national economy will be affected by billions of dollars because of a negative “perception”. It doesn’t matter what is really true or false, it only matters what the Chinese and Russian public “perceive”.

Businesses spend millions of dollars in marketing and advertising to give you a positive impression about their product or service. Your “perception” of the product or service determines whether you use it or not. Human nature makes it very easy to change your mind from positive to negative, but next to impossible to change from negative to positive. Emotion often plays a bigger part in the process than logic.

There might be several hunters from Bleckley County on this forum. So why did the “Georgia Farm Monitor” and Mr. Nobles call us from 140 miles away? Because it was their “perception” we could effectively solve their problem. What did they base this “perception” on? Was it references, referrals, pictures, comments, website, trust, reputation, credibility or past results? It was all the above.

The best hunters, doggers and trappers on this forum operate the same way. You must have a great reputation and provide the farmer or landowner with positive results or you would not retain permission to hunt/trap. So, I’m not claiming one method is any better than another and I’m certainly not stating all farmers feel the same way. I’m merely making an observation based on phone calls with irritated farmers who are experiencing the same problem as Mr. Nobles.

I always ask a series of questions to better understand their situation. Here are the results: Farmers who saw tied, cuffed, caught or live hogs had a negative “perception” about the method. Farmers who saw only one or two hogs (alive or dead) had a negative “perception” about the method. Remember, it doesn’t matter whether it is right or wrong, it only matters what they “perceive”. Unless the hog is dead, there is still the “perception” it can be turned loose again. Unless you are killing multiples, the “perception” is the method is not effective.

These farmers need help, but my thermal team is already too busy to be travelling all over the state. We would like to start referring local GON hunters, doggers and trappers to farmers in problem areas which are too far for us. But this will NOT be a blind referral. We will only refer those who use hunting, dogging and trapping methods which produce high-volume numbers of dead hogs.

We can discuss changing farmers “perceptions” with new methods, equipment or technology in another thread at a later date. I just wanted to share the “Georgia Farm Monitor” clip and WDM Conference presentations while I had some spare time between New York and Atlanta.

---JAGER
 

gnarlyone

Senior Member
hogs

That is a crock just like 90% of all the hog hype...For 1 ..that damage was done over a period of time that the farmer knew what was happening and done nothing about it...A hog dogger could comein and in 1 night end the problem...again...he sat there and watch in happen..there are too many people everywhere that knows someonre that catches hogs..i don't feel sorry for someone like that one bit...Hogs did it in the moonlight hrs.....true....so do hog doggers...we CAN be out there all night and wait(Night Vision) or turn out and find them..they will be close i assure you...again..a solution and i don't feel sorry for the man...I just got in at 5 A.M. from solving several farmers problems exactly like this mans..but the difference is they have a brain God gave them to reason and think..so they nipped it in the bud by going to a solution instead of crying and getting thier 15 minutes of frame on TV......I have over 40,000 acres of farm land i manage the hogs on and never felt like 1 area was "Not Managable".....Talk to my contacts and it's a whole different story......Media airs what it wants and what it wants you to hear....I even noticed a familiar "Thermal Shot" in there.....huh?.....Never once did he mention he had someone in there trying to solve the problem...Ole farmer brown needs to be contacted and told if he's not gonna get "SMART" he's gonna have to get "TUFF".
 

Todd E

Senior Member
"Hopefully, we respect each other enough to intelligently discuss the subject below.".................Jager

Off to a good start.::ke:


There is only one thing I did not agree with. It was in the interview. Farmer asking for government intervention. I do not understand why folks think that the gov has to step in in every situation. Due to outcrys of this nature, "sport hog hunters" are gonna be left holding the bag and :cry:
 

Ruger#3

RAMBLIN ADMIN
Staff member
A few questions and a comment.

Relative to the toxin the aussies are working on. What part of the body chemistry does it attack? How does it specificaly kill hogs and not wildlife or stock in the area? Did they just isolate the area baited? I suspect you would have to publish a public notice so hogs that didnt get a lethal dose but ingested some would not be consumed by humans if taken later? Interesting stuff, as recently I've been reading about wildlife population control through contraceptive agents and the issues with that effort.

IMHO, no matter the trade conventions serve the same purpose. Those affected share knowledge concerning mutual challenges.

The vendors are always there to hawk their "solution" to the collective group. An economical marketing plan plain and simple.
 

bigjoe061

Member
Hunting Hogs

I have been hunting deer in Ga. since 1977. Hogs ARE destroying crops, and deer habitate. Hogs have been released for the sport of few, no one asked me before they released them, did they asked you?
 

SELFBOW

Senior Member
Even Jager can not solve the problem before it happens. Aren't you targeting the animals while they are destroying the crops?

At what point do the farmers realize they need help before they plant?
Do these farmers try corrals and traps with feed before planting?
I have only been to several farms with hog problems and they run traps always.

That's my question "Exactly what do the farmers do before the crops are damaged to help control this problem?"
 

bfriendly

Bigfoot friendly
That is a crock just like 90% of all the hog hype...For 1 ..that damage was done over a period of time that the farmer knew what was happening and done nothing about it...A hog dogger could comein and in 1 night end the problem...again...he sat there and watch in happen..there are too many people everywhere that knows someonre that catches hogs..i don't feel sorry for someone like that one bit...Hogs did it in the moonlight hrs.....true....so do hog doggers...we CAN be out there all night and wait(Night Vision) or turn out and find them..they will be close i assure you...again..a solution and i don't feel sorry for the man...I just got in at 5 A.M. from solving several farmers problems exactly like this mans..but the difference is they have a brain God gave them to reason and think..so they nipped it in the bud by going to a solution instead of crying and getting thier 15 minutes of frame on TV......I have over 40,000 acres of farm land i manage the hogs on and never felt like 1 area was "Not Managable".....Talk to my contacts and it's a whole different story......Media airs what it wants and what it wants you to hear....I even noticed a familiar "Thermal Shot" in there.....huh?.....Never once did he mention he had someone in there trying to solve the problem...Ole farmer brown needs to be contacted and told if he's not gonna get "SMART" he's gonna have to get "TUFF".

Just curious, HOW MANY HOGS did you kill/Catch?
I know a guy in FL who uses traps(Big FENCE type) and it is NOT unusual for him to catch a whole Group of say 20-40 hogs at one time.
I know you guys that hunt hogs with dogs ALWAYS catch some, but help me out here........
Lets say on your BEST HUNT EVER, How many did you get using dogs?
 
Being a man of science I have some initial concerns with the Australian toxin and would need to read the studies before even thinking this might be a solution. As Ruger #3 mentioned, what are the effects on other wildlife or people ingesting this toxin? How would this toxin affect vegitation once it is in the soil? Wild Hogs in Australia are going to be genetically different then the wild hogs in America, have they considered those differences?

Does anyone remember why chemical crop dusting lost its effectiveness in just a short period of time? Survival of the Fittest. In this situation the hogs that can survive eating the toxins are the ones going to be reproducing and their genetic immunity (which came about by chance through the always occuring evolution) will be passed on, thus making this toxin ineffective over a couple of generations. I assure you that will happen because it is nature.
 

gnarlyone

Senior Member
bfrienly

I caught 6 last night/this morn......best i ever remember was a place we caught 20 something(Some were pigs)...it was unreal....he had not allowed dogs before we got there. Controling the hogs is something you have to devote a lot of time to...every week and sometimes daily, we make rounds checking the farms..and the farmers communicate with us on when they are planting..I was talking to a farmer this week and he was telling me how impressed he was with what we had done for him in the last few years..his farm borders a big hunting plantation with no fence and it specializes in hogs. The farmer was killing over 100 hogs a year...in the last 3-4 years(total) he has prob. shot 15-20....none this year....I caught 48 in feb. this year...those 6 last night made 115 for "09"...Also i know it concerns the man"s(farmer) billfold but usually 75% of the time i get a phone call from the guy telling me how the hogs are "KILLING" him...you go over and look at the damage and and it's a couple hogs "milling" around...not to say it's not important but certainly not "Killing" it....I've done this a long time..me and the young men that hunt together put in a lot a of time..sometimes i'm leaving for work at 5:30A.M. and they are just getting home....we do it cause we love it but also cause we have friends that depend on us to look out for them and thier livelihood......A true dog man can control any hog population ...anywhere....but you can't just go once a month for fun and make a difference....the gov. can't afford to run the country..I don't think they need to spend our money on foolishness as this...I work for the state and on thier level...we've had furlough days...layoffs...hiring freezes..and no raises for 4 out of 5 years......get my blood boiling and involved in "whatever means" necessary if they have time for this.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

JAGER

Senior Member
Relative to the toxin the aussies are working on. What part of the body chemistry does it attack? How does it specificaly kill hogs and not wildlife or stock in the area?

I am not a biologist, but this is how I understand the process. When most people hear the word "toxin", we automatically assume it refers to a "poison". But this process does not use a poison at all. It uses sodium nitrite which is a meat and fish preservative most of us already eat.

The 'pharmacological weakness' of hogs is that sodium nitrite effects the delivery of oxygen in their blood at a higher level than any other animal. Hogs are the most sensitive species to this process, called methemoglobinemia. This disorder is characterized by the presence of a higher than normal level of methemoglobin (metHb) in the blood. Methemoglobin is a form of hemoglobin that does not bind oxygen. When its concentration is elevated in red blood cells, tissue hypoxia can occur.

In simple terms; when hogs eat sodium nitrite, their body is deprived of adequate oxygen in their blood stream. They feel tired, lay down, go to sleep and never wake up. If they don't eat a lethal dose, they wake up after a nap and go about their business as if nothing happened.

Will it ever be approved in the United States? I don't know. It shows more promise than other research I've followed. The Humane Society radicals would rather see hogs controlled in this manner than by bullets or dogs.

...the government can't afford to run the country..I don't think they need to spend our money on foolishness as this...
I totally agree. You and I don't need the government telling us what to do or how to do it. In my opinion, the problem is not the US Department of Agriculture on this particular topic. The USDA is only trying to solve their customer's problem.

Bill Clay, the Deputy Administrator of USDA Wildlife Services (WS) was a keynote speaker at the conference. He is responsible for overall planning, coordinating and direction of the national WS operational and research programs.

Here are the fastest growing sectors in USDA programs:
1. Feral Swine Control
2. Bird Aircraft Strikes at Airports
3. Disease Control Monitoring and Surveillance

Have any of these three topics been in the media lately? Has it shaped public "perception"? Why should the media care about little things like facts?

I attend more national and state level conferences/meetings about feral hog control than most hunters and just spent three days with 100+ USDA Wildlife Service agents. Believe me, they would rather have hunters and trappers solve all the feral hog problems. The USDA is not our enemy here. They have no choice than to conduct aerial gunning and to develop toxins & contraceptives when farmers like Mr. Nobles contact their ag extension agents, Farm Bureaus and state legislators to help solve the problem. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

At what point do the farmers realize they need help before they plant?
Excellent observation! Often times, the farmer does not know what he needs. He only knows what he doesn't need. Farmers are subject matter experts at farming; not hog control. When they have a hog problem, they contact someone with a gun, dog or a trap and assume this person or group of people are subject matter experts at these skills. This does more to hurt public "perception" than anything else.

...A true dog man can control any hog population ...anywhere....but you can't just go once a month for fun and make a difference...
Well said. It takes a year-round program from competent hunters and trappers to solve these problems going forward. Just throwing incompetent people and unsuccessful methods at the situation only causes farmers to "perceive" all hunters produce negative results.

The best defense is a great offense! It is time to start our own media campaign. If farmers want a Georgia Feral Hog Control Program, then we will give them one. It doesn't need to come from the government. It needs to come from the best hog hunters and trappers in the state if we are to be successful at changing our public "perception".

We are scheduling a series of magazine articles, radio interviews, television shows and seminar presentations which will cover all methods of feral hog control available to Georgia farmers. Then it will be a matter of linking farmers with local professionals to implement a year-round Hog Control Program for them.

The best time for ag presentations to ensure maximum participation from farmers is during the winter after the fall peanut harvest, between November and February. This way, most of you can begin preventative maintenance for farmers after deer season ends in mid-January, before corn is planted in March. We just need enough competent hunters and trappers willing to produce high-volume results to make this program work.

...I caught 48 in feb. this year...those 6 last night made 115 for 2009.
These are the kind of numbers which make a real difference to any farmer's bottom line. It isn't bragging, it is advertising! All Georgia farmers need to see the positive results from effective hog control programs like this to change their "perception" of hunters. It is perfectly all right to toot our own horn. No one else is going to promote us. How else will the agricultural community know how effective we are if we don't demonstrate it to them?

Pictures of dead hogs on this forum during the next six months would be an excellent way to demonstrate everyone's proficiency. I prefer to have the best of the best represent all of us at future ag meetings this winter.

---JAGER
 

Ruger#3

RAMBLIN ADMIN
Staff member
Jager, thanks for that reply. I did quite a bit of reading on the efforts with contraceptive agents in different wildlife. One problem with that approach is the effect on other wildlife if distributed in feed. Of course injection is not feasable in many cases.

The folks with bird aircraft strikes need to take some lessons from the UK. The UK uses falcon hunters around their airfields on a regular basis. They thin the other birds and scare off the rest. Very effective method from watching them work. Knuckleheads planting feed grasses on airfields is another issue that adds to the problem.
 
If its such a problem they should let more people hunt it
 

redlevel

Senior Member
None of the control methods (thermal, trapping, dogging, biological) will work well as long as catch-and-release and catch-and-relocate continues to be practiced.
 

dadsbuckshot

Senior Member
I will add my 2 cents worth into this... And I am not speaking for everyone here - including farmers...

Here is the problem where I live... We don't have a "hog problem" in the area, but we do have hogs. Farmers know that we are getting more hogs, but they will not let anyone hunt.

I have practically begged farmers to let me hunt their hogs, and no one will allow this. I have never been hog hunting, but would love to have someplace to go. I along with my father are both in the law enforcement community, we obey all game laws, and obey land owners wishes and requests - but still farmers will not let us or Anyone else hunt.

I would love to kill some hogs, but until the farmers in my area with hogs allow me to do so, then I guess I will not get a little piggy...

Some farmers bring the problem to themselves being tight and not allowing anyone on their land - even folks who mean well...
 

sghoghunter

Senior Member
I will add my 2 cents worth into this... And I am not speaking for everyone here - including farmers...

Here is the problem where I live... We don't have a "hog problem" in the area, but we do have hogs. Farmers know that we are getting more hogs, but they will not let anyone hunt.

I have practically begged farmers to let me hunt their hogs, and no one will allow this. I have never been hog hunting, but would love to have someplace to go. I along with my father are both in the law enforcement community, we obey all game laws, and obey land owners wishes and requests - but still farmers will not let us or Anyone else hunt.

I would love to kill some hogs, but until the farmers in my area with hogs allow me to do so, then I guess I will not get a little piggy...

Some farmers bring the problem to themselves being tight and not allowing anyone on their land - even folks who mean well...

I hear ya brother the same way around here.Its a whole lot easier to rid them if there is only a few but they wait till there is a real problem and want them gone in one hunt and it just aint gonna happen.Alot of people waits cause they say well Ive only saw one or two so lets just wait and see what happens or they say I was huntn a big buck and didnt want to spook the deer.
 

aaylworth

Member
Ok, so I'm the odd one out and liable to start a fit with the dog hunters. I respect the bronze and effort it takes to be an effective dog hunter and by this mean no disrespect but this is a numbers game. One of the observations in "perception" was that one of the negative perceptions facing us "Hunters" was that we failed to eliminate the problem but drove it to a neighbor.
As a gun hunter, who hasn't the time, money or experience to be a "Dogger", I know this to be true of the way I hunt. Enough gun pressure on a lease or any piece of property will push the hogs someplace else but in all honesty this isn't control it is deturance. While "Doggers" obviously have a conciderable pride invested in their passion and their animals in truth aren't you guilty of the same thing?
The Thermal Imaging method puts dozens of pigs on the ground in any given evening but requires them to be in a field doing the damage before it becomes an effective method. The "Dogger" can go into the brush and find them during the day or night not requiring them to be in and damaging crop before they can be effective but in truth commit far fewer numbers to the ground on any given night. Without the numbers aren't you just a deturant rather than a cure? In truth for all the bluster and pomp and circumstances aren't we all more nearly masking the problem than fixing it?
I will say this for the "Doggers". In the end there are a lot more of them than there are $100K arsenals running around in the woods. As a group on any given night the "Doggers" still claim more Hogs than any other group. Still it seems to me the reality is they just drive the Hogs around sharing the oportunity with their fellow "Doggers" on the property next door and the Farmer is propably legit in worrying about what the "Dogger", or any other Hunter, on his property is going to do to his neighbors land when the Hogs leave his.
Having grown up with Farmers I can tell you without a question or doubt, no matter what their opinion of the "US" they hold each other in high reguard and look out for each other like family. Even when their talking smack about one another they will take note of each other before they ever lose a minutes sleep about the guy with the gun or the "Dog".
I think we are all going to have to put aside petty differences and recognize the value of a multifacited assualt on the Hog problem or the Government will end up doing it for us. I enjoy hunting Hogs and while I recognize the numbers are overwhelming I also recognize that some of the tactics being considered could potentially be devestating to the animal we all enjoy hunting. We have to do better at changing perception if we are to continue to enjoy this sport. What would you "Doggers" do if the State determined the need for a mass extermination with a product that worked?
 
Top