C.Killmaster
Georgia Deer Biologist
That would require a legislative change and I haven't heard of any interest at that level to do so.
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GA DNR Proposed & Finalized Firearms Either-Sex Days 2017-18 Map - March/July 2017
- Thread starter BornToHuntAndFish
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That would require a legislative change and I haven't heard of any interest at that level to do so.
C.Killmaster
Georgia Deer Biologist
Yep, sure do:
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BornToHuntAndFish
Senior Member
Thanks for the good info & answers, C.Killmaster.
ryanh487
Senior Member
Green needs at least 2-3 fewer weeks of doe days. wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit if there were 0 doe days for about 2 more years.
PappyHoel
Senior Member
According to CKs metrics only about 3.5% of the hunters kill 5 or more deer. That's nothing.
The problem lies when everyone on 300, 400, 500, 1000 acre clubs kill their one doe for the year and each club has 20-50 memebers. We have a hunter density problem and you're not going to sell a membership by telling prospective memebers they can't shoot does. And you won't sell memeberships at $1500 per member to protect the population. (Informal survey on this forum where I was called crazy)
The problem lies when everyone on 300, 400, 500, 1000 acre clubs kill their one doe for the year and each club has 20-50 memebers. We have a hunter density problem and you're not going to sell a membership by telling prospective memebers they can't shoot does. And you won't sell memeberships at $1500 per member to protect the population. (Informal survey on this forum where I was called crazy)
formula1
Daily Bible Verse Organizer
re:
Well my son and I will shoot out 4-5 deer per year legally regardless of the regs. That's what we use!
Well my son and I will shoot out 4-5 deer per year legally regardless of the regs. That's what we use!
I vote to make it 1 buck per season!
And yes, the piedmont needs fewer doe days. And the closer to Atlanta, the fewer days. Excluding metro Atl.
Hunter density problem and we have proven we can't be trusted to make sound management decisions on our own, is spot on.
red neck richie
Senior Member
So are you saying Dnr didn't have input on the current bag limits or legislators are not listening to their recommendations. I find it hard to believe they would go against Dnr since most have limited knowledge, especially the non hunters. Unless they are listening to the lobbyist.
redwards
Senior Member
The chart below is statewide, but it bears out what CK states....
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C.Killmaster
Georgia Deer Biologist
The last bag limit increase about 15 years ago was made by the legislature in part by request of DNR. Up until that time, the bag limit in law was a maximum and DNR could adjust it within that maximum through regulation. When they made the change the bag limit was written in code removing regulatory authority by DNR.. As such, DNR has had to use either-sex days to manipulate doe harvest. I honestly don't know what, if anything, has been discussed regarding the bag limit at that level in recent years. I just know that changing it has not been an option. I'm hopeful that we can bring that topic up for discussion soon since a bag limit adjustment is a simpler option than limiting either-sex days for most hunters.
transfixer
Senior Member
A bag limit option would obviously prevent areas that receive a lot of hunting pressure from being over hunted, at least in most situations, that's the main problem I see with the way its being done now, that and strictly relying on estimated kill numbers and reported kill numbers, I'll guarantee there are many more deer killed than the state thinks there are, especially in the counties where clubs are concentrated and hunting pressure is greater, more and more people self process their own deer nowadays, and a lot, if not most of those are never reported.
But hey I'm just
as long as lobbyists can influence our crooked politicians, I don't see anything changing.
But hey I'm just
as long as lobbyists can influence our crooked politicians, I don't see anything changing.help me out here... where do those numbers stabilize? all I'm seeing is a drop of 50,000 per yr in the doe harvest.
Which to my "unedumacated" self means the reason for such drop would be from lack of deer to be harvested more than anything else.
A bag limit option would obviously prevent areas that receive a lot of hunting pressure from being over hunted, at least in most situations, that's the main problem I see with the way its being done now, that and strictly relying on estimated kill numbers and reported kill numbers, I'll guarantee there are many more deer killed than the state thinks there are, especially in the counties where clubs are concentrated and hunting pressure is greater, more and more people self process their own deer nowadays, and a lot, if not most of those are never reported.
But hey I'm just
The only way the DNR being able to change the bag limit would help is IF they changed it to help, they have the option to put one doe day for the yr in the northern zone or where ever to bounce the population back up (which is what it needs) but instead they increased the doe days (not what we needed).
Make no mistake, the sucky population #'s we have now is what they want and where they want to keep it, hence "stabilization".
transfixer
Senior Member
help me out here... where do those numbers stabilize? all I'm seeing is a drop of 50,000 per yr in the doe harvest.
Which to my "unedumacated" self means the reason for such drop would be from lack of deer to be harvested more than anything else.
I agree, but for some reason unknown to us, DNR interprets those numbers to mean we aren't killing enough deer ? Not that we aren't seeing deer because they are no longer there ,,,,,
Which to my "unedumacated" self means the reason for such drop would be from lack of deer to be harvested more than anything else.
I agree, but for some reason unknown to us, DNR interprets those numbers to mean we aren't killing enough deer ? Not that we aren't seeing deer because they are no longer there ,,,,,
C.Killmaster
Georgia Deer Biologist
The drop in harvest was the result of the reduced either-sex days, not a drop in the population. The decline in the population primarily occurred between 2000 and 2010.
What you see on the property you hunt is not necessarily indicative of what the population has done at the regional or statewide level. In the last 5 years there are plenty of properties that have seen dramatic increases or decreases in deer density. Regional and statewide population trends are an average of what is occurring across all properties within those respective areas.
transfixer
Senior Member
DNR can say all they want about deer population " estimates" , but what I know is I've been hunting the same lease for the last 39yrs, this will be the 40th, our club is in the middle of roughly 2000 acres owned by the same landowner, our club has consistently seen less deer for the last 5 or 6 yrs, as well as the surrounding clubs, the surrounding clubs have had trouble keeping members renewed because of the lack of deer, one club dropped their lease because they didn't see enough deer to warrant paying the current rate. This is in Oglethorpe county, in the middle of what used to be one of the highest deer densities there was, and one of the counties that has consistently had a lot of hunters. I have acquaintances that have quit joining clubs because of the cost of membership versus the opportunities of seeing deer. Virtually every person I know complains about not seeing deer like they used to, so who are we to believe ?
I saw a few deer this year, not enough that I felt comfortable putting one in the freezer, and most of the guys on my club felt the same way. I think there was one doe killed, during bow season by a guy who hadn't taken a deer in a couple years. We chose not to take any more because we are trying to let the population recover in our area, the clubs surrounding us for the most part say they did the same. We still have one club adjoining us that will shoot whatever is legal I suppose, as one of my guys let a small 8pt and a doe walk,, and soon as it crossed the property line he heard shots. Upon walking to the boundary he met the guy that shot, of course he had just killed both deer, and his reply to my buddy upon asking do they ever let any walk ? was,,, if its brown , its down... I'm sure we will see an increase in doe kills this coming season thanks to the new regs,,,,, cause there are many hunters out there like that guy.
I saw a few deer this year, not enough that I felt comfortable putting one in the freezer, and most of the guys on my club felt the same way. I think there was one doe killed, during bow season by a guy who hadn't taken a deer in a couple years. We chose not to take any more because we are trying to let the population recover in our area, the clubs surrounding us for the most part say they did the same. We still have one club adjoining us that will shoot whatever is legal I suppose, as one of my guys let a small 8pt and a doe walk,, and soon as it crossed the property line he heard shots. Upon walking to the boundary he met the guy that shot, of course he had just killed both deer, and his reply to my buddy upon asking do they ever let any walk ? was,,, if its brown , its down... I'm sure we will see an increase in doe kills this coming season thanks to the new regs,,,,, cause there are many hunters out there like that guy.
C.Killmaster
Georgia Deer Biologist
The population "estimates" that you refer to also show a substantial decline in the deer population from the 1990's to 2010's. It would seem they are in agreement with what you have observed. A lot of that reduction was by design, there was a time when there were too many deer in Georgia. I'm willing to bet your area has a hunter density issue, which is not something the regulations can really address. Regulations designed to accommodate too many hunters per square mile leave the rest of Georgia headed right back to having too many deer.
It's hard for most folks to understand how difficult it is to maintain an appropriate balance for everyone, and I mean all 10 million residents in Georgia. There are a plethora of hunter densities and management objectives, not to mention deer-vehicle collisions, herbivory around homes, and agricultural impacts.
redwards
Senior Member
I also hunt in Oglethorpe County. Have been hunting there for over 30 years. I agree that deer densities don't seem to be what they were in the '90's...but is that a bad thing for the herd and the habitat?
Do they, and/or you conduct camera surveys to estimate the numbers of deer on the properties/leases?
My son and I conduct camera surveys every year...and we know generally how many deer use the 267 acres we lease in Oglethorpe, and the 75 acres we lease in another county.
Using the DNR Game Check numbers of deer reported I kept a daily running tally of the deer reported in Oglethorpe County. Look at the charts below.
The first one shows the raw number of deer reported for the season in Oglethorpe County as well as the number of bucks, doe, and total deer killed per square mile. While the numbers can't account for "unreported kills" they do give "minimum" numbers.
Oglethorpe County ranks 11th in the state at 5.66 deer reported per sq. mile, and 22nd in the state at 272 doe deer reported per square mile. There must be some deer in the county!
The second chart shows a day by day graphic from Gun Opener thru Nov. 30th of what was reported. It is quite easy to see the effect that "buck only" days have. Blue bar = Bucks reported....Red bar = Doe reported.
The third chart shows from Dec. 1st thru end of season.
Sort of easy and interesting to see how "hunter preference" switches as the season progresses!
Are you a QDMA member? Ever considered trying to get a QDMA Cooperative started among your and adjoining clubs/properties?
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I would say it was better from 2000-2010 than it is now as well.
How is it that we can have a regulation of so many acres for dog hunting but not for a higher harvest? I would say there's more people hunting 20 acres than there are hunting 1,000.
Sounds good down there, we had 2.7 deer per sq mile reported up here. lol
Most people frown on QDMA here now, they were that ones that advocated shooting does so much.
I've had cameras out for a yr and only gotten 3 pictures of deer on it.
You're minimum number can be off real bad however, I have an uncle that started hunting back when it first became legal up here, He said anytime he was asked how many deer he killed he always said whatever the limit was, always filled all of his tags out at the end of the yr, and as you can guess... he said he killed 12 deer this yr by the game check... he didn't kill the first deer lol, the reasoning behind it all as he says, is because, the DNR keeps up with those numbers and releases deer from other states to keep the population up.
He came up with that one from the original stockings up here around the 50's I think. lol
Whenever anybody decides they think the deer population is OK, look at Johns mtn wma in north GA, 24,589 acre wma.... 12 deer were killed, 1 of those deer was a doe, the other 11 were bucks, that's 1 deer per 2,000 acres harvested, IF there were any deer there the population would be exploding from a lack of harvest...
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transfixer
Senior Member
We don't belong to the QDMA association, we still try to manage what is harvested by 8pts or better, our members have agreed not to shoot any buck smaller. And the 2-3 years we have encouraged members not to take does, with a couple of exceptions for youngsters, we've done very well with that.
The other large club next to us is having a hard enough time keeping memberships filled , I'm not sure they are sticking to any sort of management plan, they lose 3 or 4 members every year or so due to the cost of dues versus members seeing so few deer.
It probably comes down to what C.Killmaster said, our area has had a high number of clubs/hunters for a long time, which with the increased doe days and bag limits for a few years back has caused a noticeable drop in the population. I just find it hard to believe that the other counties in the piedmont region don't have the same issue we do.
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