Batjack
Cap`n Jack 1313
All I ever herd growing up was that with big Jewfish the meat was full of flat worms and not fit to eat. Prob. something locals told this poor Ga. boy to keep him from catch'n all of their fish.
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Gag Grouper Disappearing too?
- Thread starter doomtrpr_z71
- Start date
notnksnemor
The Great and Powerful Oz
Never heard that growing up.
Black drum have more worms than any saltwater fish I know of.
Batjack
Cap`n Jack 1313
Only fish I ever saw them in was Amberjack and the mate cleaning them just pulled the worms out and tossed them back with the guts.
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notnksnemor
The Great and Powerful Oz
Those are some good memories from that little roadside strip of land.
16' Monkey Wards aluminum V-bottom boat and a 15 hp Seahorse kicker.
For jewfish, we'd tie the rope to the boat and pull them away from the bridge.
Every now and then you would get one bigger than the boat would handle and have to cut the line before it swamped you.
16' Monkey Wards aluminum V-bottom boat and a 15 hp Seahorse kicker.
For jewfish, we'd tie the rope to the boat and pull them away from the bridge.
Every now and then you would get one bigger than the boat would handle and have to cut the line before it swamped you.
doomtrpr_z71
Senior Member
Exactly the cv is so out of whack between the upper and lower 95% values it's 1.5 million lbs of variance. I don't even understand why out of season data is even included in the model. What irritates me is I'm not a fisheries scientist and I know this dataset input is trash and the model will spit out trash, they must not be scientists either, just bureaucrats collecting a check.Hey @doomtrpr_z71 - numbers are like people… if you torture them enough they’ll confess to anything
I used to work in that arena around 20 years ago (eastern NC back when it was MRFSS). You are spot on with what I believe you’re pointing out.
Back in the day they used random digit dialing (when folks still had land lines) to extrapolate effort. How many folks went fishing was estimated, then you multiply that by catch or encounter per angler to estimate recreational harvest.
Don’t know what they do now to get a handle on effort, but the problem with low observations still remains. You can easily get crazy estimates when multiplying one observation of a crazy successful angler by hundreds of thousands of hours.
Assuming that guy wasn’t pulling the creel clerk’s leg, the fish was properly ID’d, or the observations were properly entered.
And let me tell you about creel clerks… you get the Boy Scout types right out of high school or retired guy that doesn’t want to be around his old lady. Both are great but anything in between is a crap shoot. We even had one creel clerk found naked in his car. Drunks, drugs, you name it. Seasonal work for low hourly wages!
Back to the estimates - they used to have a guideline for precision in the harvest, coefficient of variation (CV), which shows how great the error is in the estimate relative to the estimate itself. So 100 +/- 50 would be 50% CV. Anything over 20% was generally thought of as garbage. Like saying I’m going to pay you $100k for a job. Could be $50k tho I’m not quite sure.
Many (most… maybe all) government outfits are covered up in bureaucracy that runs off the talent, leaving an above average composure of twits. Many of which probably never held a grouper. Then with a *** framework, blame games, etc. you get what you get - just another big government failure like all the rest.
I’d like to be more optimistic but wouldn’t wager on things getting any better. Unless we hit $8/gallon gas and people stop fishing altogether!
I’ll have to get a look at some of this stuff one of these days to see how things have unfolded. There are some good folks still in the mix but lord knows they’ve got a big hill to climb!
GeorgiaGlockMan
Senior Member
^^^this.
menhadenman
Senior Member
It was pretty bad 20 years ago - I hate to see it today.
Now you’ve got these young bucks coming into the field with R Studio and a bunch of Bayesian stuff where they generate results on a house of cards… all the old timers that actually understood how these things are connected are long gone.
doomtrpr_z71
Senior Member
And then you have me, a young buck who did R the old fashion way and R studio never seemed to do what I wanted
jdgator
Senior Member
@doomtrpr_z71 @menhadenman
Stock modeling... R studio... Old hands complaining about multivariate analysis... You boys are one slide deck away from making this a policy meeting. Lol!
Stock modeling... R studio... Old hands complaining about multivariate analysis... You boys are one slide deck away from making this a policy meeting. Lol!
menhadenman
Senior Member
doomtrpr_z71
Senior Member
doomtrpr_z71
Senior Member
doomtrpr_z71
Senior Member
And speaking of more NOAA data
Take a look at this, they estimate that more fish were caught inland by shore fishermen (8910) than caught within 10 miles of the coast (5983) by charter boats. They figure that 411 were caught inshore on charters. They also figure 10140 were caught on charters offshore greater than 10 miles. They have zero catch on party boats so I don't know how they figured that 8000lbs or so were caught, a WAG I guess.
And look at the inshore numbers with private boats, 14307, how can anyone believe that there were almost more fish caught inshore by private boats than the combined numbers caught by charters. But then again they have figured that 30654 gags were caught by private boats less than 10 miles off shore vs 35208 further off shore. So total catch by private boats was 80170, by the NOAA numbers that works out to an average weight of 17.46lbs per fish caught using their own math from the catch amounts.
I'm curious to see if the model matches that math.
Take a look at this, they estimate that more fish were caught inland by shore fishermen (8910) than caught within 10 miles of the coast (5983) by charter boats. They figure that 411 were caught inshore on charters. They also figure 10140 were caught on charters offshore greater than 10 miles. They have zero catch on party boats so I don't know how they figured that 8000lbs or so were caught, a WAG I guess.
And look at the inshore numbers with private boats, 14307, how can anyone believe that there were almost more fish caught inshore by private boats than the combined numbers caught by charters. But then again they have figured that 30654 gags were caught by private boats less than 10 miles off shore vs 35208 further off shore. So total catch by private boats was 80170, by the NOAA numbers that works out to an average weight of 17.46lbs per fish caught using their own math from the catch amounts.
I'm curious to see if the model matches that math.
notnksnemor
The Great and Powerful Oz
ARS studies were the Beta test.
Gags studies are the punch list walk.
Perfection is next.
Gags studies are the punch list walk.
Perfection is next.
plumber_1969
Senior Member
We were sheepshead fishing last year in the GOM and every rock we went to that had a jewfish on it, there were ZERO other fish, Maybe, just maybe, they eat a lot???
grouper throat
Senior Member
I can believe the catch data (disregarding the avg length) if it were Destin/PCB or Tampa Bay (which it probably is).
I see the same problem as trout, 5x the fishermen from 20 yearrs ago and with much better tech at their disposal. You don't even need to throw an anchor now to be positioned correctly.
Interesting variable with the jewfish though that I hadn't thought of as they were rare back then.
I see the same problem as trout, 5x the fishermen from 20 yearrs ago and with much better tech at their disposal. You don't even need to throw an anchor now to be positioned correctly.
Interesting variable with the jewfish though that I hadn't thought of as they were rare back then.
Michael F Sights
Senior Member
Pretty simple I believe, as the Red Snapper have increased in numbers/size... the Grouper populations have shrunk. Red Snapper are very aggressive, they out compete the Grouper. All habitats have the maximum amount of animals they can support, does not matter if it is on land or below the sea.
I base this on mostly fishing in Destin, some in PCB, Mexico Beach over last 25 years. Not sure about Atlantic
I base this on mostly fishing in Destin, some in PCB, Mexico Beach over last 25 years. Not sure about Atlantic
slow motion
Senior Member
Beautiful fish in your avatar. Gotta show my ignorance on billfish though. Is it a sail?
Maybe one day.
Swamprat
Swamprat
Jewfish have taken over a lot of structure in the Big Bend/Panhandle and they are not selective in what they suck down.
Sea wall at the old St Joe paper mill in PSJ is or was loaded down with them. I believe a lot of concrete rubble during the tear down was dumped over the side.
Also lionfish put a hurting on brood stock in the same areas.
Sea wall at the old St Joe paper mill in PSJ is or was loaded down with them. I believe a lot of concrete rubble during the tear down was dumped over the side.
Also lionfish put a hurting on brood stock in the same areas.
