In the QDM world, what exactly is a cull buck?

[earlthegoat2]

Seems like there isn’t a real definition and I doubt we will get one here either but what does everyone have to say?

I would like some opinions and maybe even some facts to ponder over.

 

[uturn]

No such thing other than high fence or pen raised deer!

I don’t believe it can be done with free range whitetail…just the reason some folks use to justify killing another or a buck in my opinion!!

Not saying you can’t alter a whitetails grow or the like thru habit improvement, demise or supplement feeding etc but…Cullling I don’t believe there‘s such a thing man can do with free range Whitetail!!

Let the beatings begin…as I said just my opinion! Great question by the way!

Scott-Uturn

 

[Josh B]

I think there's more bucks with messed up racks than symmetrical racks. So you're never going to get them all. Cull buck is an excuse to fill the freezer.

 

[whitetailfreak]

A buck that you don't think will get the interwebs blessing so it's deemed a "cull".

 

[Danuwoa]

It’s something people hear other people say. They say it to sound like big shots.

 

[buckpasser]

I’ll be the odd man out. My definition of a cull buck is one that doesn’t, can’t, or obviously won’t produce a rack that is desirable to my employers. Normally, that’s due to a pedicle injury. We’re not “culling” bad genetics. We’re removing a buck that will fight other bucks to maintain a territory.

Think of it as asking the dealer for a new card in a hand of poker. The “cull” may be replaced in that area by something better. We are not a high fence operation and we can therefore only hold so many bucks. It’s like stacking marbles. At some point they roll off the table. Hope this helps.

 

[buckpasser]

Oh, and BTW, this thread is another great example of why GON should have installed a trophy hunting forum many years ago!

 

[buckpasser]

Here’s a good example of my definition. Two years ago this deer was a very nice 3rd rack 10 point (125 inches+\-). That season he badly injured a shoulder. Last year’s rack was a 5 by junk due to the injury. He then snapped off the ugly side and later broke the good side. This is him at 5. Very good genetics, no doubt, but just another mouth to feed and a fighter to contend with. He’s on the hit list.

 

[Milkman]

Here’s a true cull. No antler. No knot No pedicle Nothing.

 

[Mexican Squealer]

A mature buck that has reached his potential or is on the decline that is eating too much, running off other bucks etc. Got a couple on the cull list for this season. Not culling for genetics, culling for carrying capacity.

 

[1eyefishing]

View attachment 1239786

Here’s a true cull. No antler. No knot No pedicle Nothing.

Seems he would never have any trophy potential for sure...
But I would only shoot him if I had more than two buck tags and ate a lot more deer meat than my wife and I consume.

I'm not part of a commercial hunting operation like @buckpasser... I'm wondering who gets to spend their buck tag on that cull buck? The guides? The guests? At reduced cost?

He's not what i'm trying to kill, so I wouldn't kill him.
I learned in high school the best way to date a hot chick is to not date an ugly chick.
The best way to kill a big buck is not kill a little buck.

 

[bfriendly]

I’d say in a nutshell, it’s a “feeling” a lot of folks get from taking out the chosen cull. Take out a buck that doesn’t have as many points or other characteristics that the landowner wants to let mature or have breeding thier does…..that’s the main idea. Wether or not it works is IMHO completely beside the point. Y’all bashing the idea of a cull buck, is as useless as culling a buck to begin with.…….I buy the idea it doesn’t work outside of a controlled environment.
But, If I had land and was growing Trophy deer myself, I’d surely be culling bucks! Doesn’t matter if it works or not! It’ll make me “feel” good knowing I took an undesirable animal out of the gene pool. Besides, maybe the guy on The Bucks of Tecomate has no idea what he’s talking about, but he would swear by it and is always “culling” the undesirable ones………carry on

 

[Tight Lines]

Seems like there isn’t a real definition and I doubt we will get one here either but what does everyone have to say?

I would like some opinions and maybe even some facts to ponder over.

The cull buck is a myth when talking about effecting the genetics in the wild. It's impossible. It's a term to take a sub-trophy deer typically for TV...

Young bucks get run off a certain area by mama when she has her next offspring and typically most of your 1.5 yo bucks are from neighboring properties...they move away from mama and start their adult life...it's Mother Nature's way of minimizing interbreeding...

However...

A management buck is a real thing as @buckpasser said. That's a buck that is not a trophy class buck over 4.5, probably due to injury, possibly dominant, so it is running off other younger decent bucks who will be in competition for the does, is eating forage, or because you have too many bucks in an age class. You are not affecting genes, but removing a dominant buck so others can take over, increasing the available forage for other deer, or just removing old bucks that are not ever going to be trophies from the herd.

A buck doesn't stop growing its skeleton until 3.5 or so, so its rack can't reach its potential until it can divert the energy and minerals from its skeleton to do so. So you really have to wait until 4.5 to see what they are capable of and typically by 6.5-7.5 or after it starts to decline. By that time, the genes are in the herd. And the does carry half the genes.

What we try to do on my current lease is take the old ones that are dominant, injured, or mangled racks, ideally after 4.5 so you can see what their racks will look like, and take other older over the hill bucks that are not necessarily trophies. No one wants to do this if they are trophy hunting, but my son and I will take old ones early in the season and keep a buck tag for what might show up...and we whack several does along the way too...the worst thing you can do is kill a nice 3.5 yo while leaving an old mangled 5.5 dominant buck in the herd...kill the 5.5 yo so you can see what the 3.5 you will look like at 4.5 yo. Easier said than done I know...and too many variables to control...he may never make it...

Not that we can affect genetics, we can't, but so that the remaining deer have plentiful forage and the best chance to breed the existing does and live to grow even bigger racks.

The land has a carrying capacity and the fewer the deer the healthier they will be in general, and taking the non-trophy older deer out that are dominant increases the chances you are going to see more trophies.

With all of that said, the best way to see big racks is genetics first, age second, land quality third, and herd size and structure 4th...and of course being in the stand.

I just like to hunt, not too worried about racks, but I do like to do everything I can to see the big racks reach their potential...and keep the herd as healthy as I can so it maintains...

 

[Milkman]

View attachment 1239786

Here’s a true cull. No antler. No knot No pedicle Nothing.

Seems he would never have any trophy potential for sure...
But I would only shoot him if I had more than two buck tags and ate a lot more deer meat than my wife and I consume.

I'm not part of a commercial hunting operation like @buckpasser... I'm wondering who gets to spend their buck tag on that cull buck? The guides? The guests? At reduced cost?

He's not what i'm trying to kill, so I wouldn't kill him.
I learned in high school the best way to date a hot chick is to not date an ugly chick.
The best way to kill a big buck is not kill a little buck.

But what if that defect is hereditary?

Wouldn’t that buck pass on that one antler characteristic to future generations?

 

[1eyefishing]

But what if that defect is hereditary?

Wouldn’t that buck pass on that one antler characteristic to future generations?

Ya but what about his momma, daddy, sisters, and brothers.
The jeans are already in the pool, killing that one isn't gonna dry them out.
You can't start over.

And I'm definitely in the 'don't tell others what to shoot/don't shoot' crowd.

The perfect scenario for me would be to find a youngun who would be tickled pink ta shoot him.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I think there's more bucks with messed up racks than symmetrical racks. So you're never going to get them all. Cull buck is an excuse to fill the freezer.

I don't need an excuse. That's the main reason I'm out there. If not, I'd quit.

 

[Timberbeast]

The Webster noun definition of cull is “something rejected especially as being inferior or worthless”

The thread prompted me to look this up.

I’ve used the term in the past (even to justify pulling the trigger), but have quit using it. I try to shoot mature bucks. I’ve shot young bucks plenty too. I’ll remain in the camp of shoot what is legal and what makes you smile, especially if a child or new hunter is involved. My dad smiles every time he puts one in the freezer regardless of what is on its head and that’s a memory I cherish.

 

[buckpasser]

Seems he would never have any trophy potential for sure...
But I would only shoot him if I had more than two buck tags and ate a lot more deer meat than my wife and I consume.

I'm not part of a commercial hunting operation like @buckpasser... I'm wondering who gets to spend their buck tag on that cull buck? The guides? The guests? At reduced cost?

He's not what i'm trying to kill, so I wouldn't kill him.
I learned in high school the best way to date a hot chick is to not date an ugly chick.
The best way to kill a big buck is not kill a little buck.

Well, the place I manage is actually not commercial. It’s hunted by the family and invited guests. I choose not to kill any deer as I have my own hunting properties and I don’t want the perception of any conflicts of interest. The bucks on the hit list are catalogued and available to guests and/or the owners. Right now I need more willing guests, but that remains out of my control. There are a few kids coming along in the owners’ family so I’m hopeful they get to take a pile of them in the near future.

 

[Milkman]

Ya but what about his momma, daddy, sisters, and brothers.
The jeans are already in the pool, killing that one isn't gonna dry them out.
You can't start over.

And I'm definitely in the 'don't tell others what to shoot/don't shoot' crowd.

The perfect scenario for me would be to find a youngun who would be tickled pink ta shoot him.

Me either on the preachy crowd.

That buck ended up in the freezer of a disabled friend who wasn’t able to hunt that year.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I’d say in a nutshell, it’s a “feeling” a lot of folks get from taking out the chosen cull. Take out a buck that doesn’t have as many points or other characteristics that the landowner wants to let mature or have breeding thier does…..that’s the main idea. Wether or not it works is IMHO completely beside the point. Y’all bashing the idea of a cull buck, is as useless as culling a buck to begin with.…….I buy the idea it doesn’t work outside of a controlled environment.
But, If I had land and was growing Trophy deer myself, I’d surely be culling bucks! Doesn’t matter if it works or not! It’ll make me “feel” good knowing I took an undesirable animal out of the gene pool. Besides, maybe the guy on The Bucks of Tecomate has no idea what he’s talking about, but he would swear by it and is always “culling” the undesirable ones………carry on

If that actaully works in that direction, then having a "shooter list" of only the best, most perfect, biggest racks that you kill all of and leave the grubbier ones alone seems to not be a good management strategy for future antler genetics.