Is Chewing Tobacco a Sin?

[Israel]

But even councils are not "all of the church"..."it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us..." And the Lord knows how much may appear as otherwise seems...

But nevertheless, if it be that this is in all true...that there be "no other requirement"

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

At what point, if the scripture cannot be broken, is it then later granted to add anything to the only necessary?

Do you think, might you appreciate that a man's confusion is only further exacerbated to his confounding if being told, (by some entity calling itself the Church) upon one day in time his eating of meat on a certain day has placed his soul in mortal peril...but on some later day he is now given the all clear?

Is submission to the Church...or in the Church, being comprised of what is submitted to Christ?

Does this scripture:

Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Contain anything in meaning that it is then given to any to then have authority to manufacture a place of sin where none exists? Or is it the complete obverse...an appeal for a merciful eye to be cast upon what has manifestly sinned?

If my conscience is not clear toward what would even assume to itself such authority, God knows. For God knows in times past...it was not.

 

[Madman]

But even councils are not "all of the church"..."it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us..." And the Lord knows how much may appear as otherwise seems...

But nevertheless, if it be that this is in all true...that there be "no other requirement"

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

At what point, if the scripture cannot be broken, is it then later granted to add anything to the only necessary?

Do you think, might you appreciate that a man's confusion is only further exacerbated to his confounding if being told, (by some entity calling itself the Church) upon one day in time his eating of meat on a certain day has placed his soul in mortal peril...but on some later day he is now given the all clear?

Is submission to the Church...or in the Church, being comprised of what is submitted to Christ?

Does this scripture:

Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Contain anything in meaning that it is then given to any to then have authority to manufacture a place of sin where none exists? Or is it the complete obverse...an appeal for a merciful eye to be cast upon what has manifestly sinned?

If my conscience is not clear toward what would even assume to itself such authority, God knows. For God knows in times past...it was not.

But even councils are not "all of the church"..."it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us..." And the Lord knows how much may appear as otherwise seems...

I would disagree as this discussion is on the decision of a topic which has most likely been decided by the church, or not decided on by the church, which means brothers are free to use free will based on other tenants of the faith.

We see time and time again the Apostles proclaiming proper actions based on the faith and historically the Bishops represent the church.

“See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid..” St. Ignatious of Antioch to the Church at Smyrna

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

At what point, if the scripture cannot be broken, is it then later granted to add anything to the only necessary?

Do you think, might you appreciate that a man's confusion is only further exacerbated to his confounding if being told, (by some entity calling itself the Church) upon one day in time his eating of meat on a certain day has placed his soul in mortal peril...but on some later day he is now given the all clear?

I am not certain of the introduction of this passage. The council is saying the old testament, at least in the need for circumcision is no longer needed it has been overcome with the circumcision of the heart in Baptism



I see nowhere in any church canon that eating meat on a certain day is a mortal sin. You will need to show me that one.

Is submission to the Church...or in the Church, being comprised of what is submitted to Christ?

It is submission to Christ.

Does this scripture:

Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Contain anything in meaning that it is then given to any to then have authority to manufacture a place of sin where none exists? Or is it the complete obverse...an appeal for a merciful eye to be cast upon what has manifestly sinned?

This passage means exactly what it says; Christ gave the Apostles the authority to forgive sins in his name. If those sins are forgiven then they are forgiven, if they are not forgiven then they are retained. If that passage is put in context we see Christ returning to the Apostles after his resurrection and breathing the Holy Spirit on them.


Is there a thread post on what the church is? If not maybe one could be started.

 

[Israel]

I don't mean to make the whole meatless Fridays that were once in force nor the present meatless Lenten Fridays/Ash Wednesday matter a central concern, there are ample other issues of observance (Holy days of obligation, etc) that are tied to matters of sin creatively. At least in a certain entity declaring itself the Church.

Caring less about particulars, I am more inclined to consider the over arching matter of what appears a presumption to make sin of no thing that either the scripture mention, nor is given of the Lord in authority to any disciples. Which is more with what I believe is the tenor of the OP.

"Where did (does!) all this stuff come from?"

(In which I believe the OP might agree it is not just "certain" entities declaring themselves the Church that have gotten creative with sin) And the declaring and/or calling up of the law....tithing, etc.

What an almost hilarious matter...a gentile preacher, often preaching to predominantly gentile converts about tithing.

But perhaps it better calls for tears?


I do not know if Paul could be more persuasive in matter of law than his saying of this (which, if we believe his authority was not given in vain should sober us)

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

PLet's not think that as individuals we make up the church.

If the individual believers, as a body, don't make up the church, then what does?

The church is not a building, nor the leaders that are put into place over the local body. Nor national leaders over denominations. And it certainly isn't a man in a tall white hat sitting on his betonkus over in Italy

 

[Madman]

If the individual believers, as a body, don't make up the church, then what does?

The church is not a building, nor the leaders that are put into place over the local body. Nor national leaders over denominations. And it certainly isn't a man in a tall white hat sitting on his betonkus over in Italy

let me clarify.
I didnt mean the members dont make up the church I meant an individual alone is not the church. Just as fingers toes etc. Make up a physical body so do individual Christian's make up the body of the church.

As to leadership over the church you may want to search Holy Scripture and see what it says. You may want to see how the church operated for hundreds of years, beginning in the first century.

You may want to understand how the church has operated and is operating for the last 2000+ years. The Roman Catholics are not the only part of the church that has these beliefs.

The other option is to spend all your time sticking your nose in your neighbor's business telling him he is in sin for having a drink or a smoke or a chew of tobacco, and heaven forbid anyone dance.

Perhaps you should start a thread on what you believe about the church and why. I'll be glad to jump in.

God's peace.

 

[Madman]

I don't mean to make the whole meatless Fridays that were once in force nor the present meatless Lenten Fridays/Ash Wednesday matter a central concern, there are ample other issues of observance (Holy days of obligation, etc) that are tied to matters of sin creatively. At least in a certain entity declaring itself the church

Depriving oneself of flesh meat on Friday or fasting during the week is nothing more than self discipline. The Roman Catholic Church has "days of obligation " on which their members are encouraged to attend Mass. The Orthodox, the Coptic church, the Anglicans, all have variations, because the ancient church encouraged it.

I encourage people to study church history in the light of Holy Scripture.

"The more you know the Bible, the more catholic you become ".

 

[NE GA Pappy]

let me clarify.
I didnt mean the members dont make up the church I meant an individual alone is not the church. Just as fingers toes etc. Make up a physical body so do individual Christian's make up the body of the church.

As to leadership over the church you may want to search Holy Scripture and see what it says. You may want to see how the church operated for hundreds of years, beginning in the first century.

You may want to understand how the church has operated and is operating for the last 2000+ years. The Roman Catholics are not the only part of the church that has these beliefs.

The other option is to spend all your time sticking your nose in your neighbor's business telling him he is in sin for having a drink or a smoke or a chew of tobacco, and heaven forbid anyone dance.

Perhaps you should start a thread on what you believe about the church and why. I'll be glad to jump in.

God's peace.

I don't see a need for another thread. We have discussed this before, and you and I will ever agree on this.

If I believe that the church is not based in Rome, it doesn't make my only option to be the arbitrator of sinfulness to my neighbor. It is not my place to tell my neighbor what is sin. The Bible clearly does so, and without a lot of gray areas.

One thing for sure and certain about both of us. We understand a lot more of the Bible than we practice. Everyone does.

 

[4HAND]

Depriving oneself of flesh meat on Friday or fasting during the week is nothing more than self discipline. The Roman Catholic Church has "days of obligation " on which their members are encouraged to attend Mass. The Orthodox, the Coptic church, the Anglicans, all have variations, because the ancient church encouraged it.

I encourage people to study church history in the light of Holy Scripture.

"The more you know the Bible, the more catholic you become ".

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but not everyone is catholic. I'm not.

 

[Madman]

I don't see a need for another thread. We have discussed this before, and you and I will ever agree on this.

If I believe that the church is not based in Rome, it doesn't make my only option to be the arbitrator of sinfulness to my neighbor. It is not my place to tell my neighbor what is sin. The Bible clearly does so, and without a lot of gray areas.

One thing for sure and certain about both of us. We understand a lot more of the Bible than we practice. Everyone does.

I agree. The church is not based in Rome. Now what?

 

[Madman]

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but not everyone is catholic. I'm not.

I agree. Ok. I am catholic just not Roman.
Now what?

Would it not be better if those who are not catholic better understood those who are?

 

[Madman]

I don't see a need for another thread. We have discussed this before, and you and I will ever agree on this.

If I believe that the church is not based in Rome, it doesn't make my only option to be the arbitrator of sinfulness to my neighbor. It is not my place to tell my neighbor what is sin. The Bible clearly does so, and without a lot of gray areas.

One thing for sure and certain about both of us. We understand a lot more of the Bible than we practice. Everyone does.

Lot of interesting stuff there, I'd like discuss that over the drink of your choice.

 

[Madman]

But even councils are not "all of the church".

They were up until the 7th ecumenical council.

 

[4HAND]

I agree. Ok. I am catholic just not Roman.
Now what?

Would it not be better if those who are not catholic better understood those who are?

Absolutely. The same goes for Catholics understanding protestants. But you said "the more you know the Bible, the more catholic you become".
That is not accurate.

 

[Madman]

Absolutely. The same goes for Catholics understanding protestants. But you said "the more you know the Bible, the more catholic you become".
That is not accurate.

I am pretty well versed in protestantism. Grab NE GA Pappy and let's all go out for drinks. You would be amazed at what the Scriptures say on the matter.

There is thread been started for anyone with will to discuss.

I have have no illusion of conversion, just to discuss it.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I am pretty well versed in protestantism. Grab NE GA Pappy and let's all go out for drinks. You would be amazed at what the Scriptures say on the matter.

There is thread been started for anyone with will to discuss.

I have have no illusion of conversion, just to discuss it.

I doubt seriously that he is gonna drive up from Florida to discuss the catholic church

 

[Madman]

I doubt seriously that he is gonna drive up from Florida to discuss the catholic church

Great! I'll be in Florida all next week.

 

[4HAND]

I doubt seriously that he is gonna drive up from Florida to discuss the catholic church

????

 

[4HAND]

I wouldn't walk across the street for a drink, because I don't drink anymore.
I have absolutely no problem with anyone that does though. I like diet coke.

 

[Madman]

I wouldn't walk across the street for a drink, because I don't drink anymore.
I have absolutely no problem with anyone that does though. I like diet coke.

Diet coke is a drink my friend.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Lot of interesting stuff there, I'd like discuss that over the drink of your choice.

ice water or unsweetened tea is all I drink anymore. I usually have plenty of it in the fridge