Self-Defense Question

[Doe Master]

This was mainly an academic exercise just to get a sense for where the line is drawn for the right to protect yourself and your property.

I think I understand the responses to say I can draw on him after the fact to detain him for the police to come and if he tries to draw his in response I can open fire. I understand that all of this is tricky and the best course of action is probably to let the cops sort it out since its not worth dying over a $10 Wal-Mart wallet and plastic credit cards that I'll cancel in the next hour.

What about in the second scenario where you're being robbed and stranded in the wilderness might constitute a serious threat to your well-being?

Dead men can't talk. Dig a big hole and keep your mouth shut the rest of your life.

OK maybe not but use your gut feeling because when it happens you wont be wondering what to do then it will just happen plus many thoughts will be passing through your brain in those few short seconds.

 

[badhaircut13]

I wouldn't. Yes, you can prevent a forcible felony, but if he is already retreating and no longer a threat deadly force would be hard to justify. There is plenty of case law on scenarios like that. I know of one where a store clerk is robbed and he chased the armed robber out of the store and into the road and shot him. The store owner ended up bein charged.

 

[ross the deer slayer]

I'm not one to back down from a fight but if the guy has my wallet and is walking away and I am alive to go home and see my daughter then I am going to leave it at that. I'm a pretty good shot with a handgun but there is still a chance I miss and he doesn't... If your alive and the threat is over no sense in chancing it.

I never thought about this.. I agree

 

[Lonestar]

This might help: http://www.gundigest.com/gun-blogs/books/concealed-carry-when-can-you-use-deadly-force

 

[RFWobbly]

I figured it would be something like that. It's interesting that the law makes that distinction though. If the guy is trying to take something from me, you can use justifiable force to prevent this. But in this example, the second he turns around and you now have the opportunity to protect yourself, its suddenly unlawful?

That's just it, the second he turns he's no longer threatening you or yours.

Guns protect life, not property.

 

[Magowah]

Let him go and be thankful he left you with your life and gun. Would hate to live the rest of MY life knowing I had killed someone that I did not have it. Lot of "brovada" while on the net in the safety of your easy chair. The second thoughts that come to haunt you in the wee hours of the night are a different story.

 

[badhaircut13]

That's just it, the second he turns he's no longer threatening you or yours.

Guns protect life, not property.

Well said.

 

[BlackKnight755]

If he turns to leave jump him. If he goes for his gun again shoot him.

...Now YOU have become the aggressor and have committed aggravated assault, murder if the guy dies. I don't agree with it but thats the way the law reads.

 

[miles58]

Myself, I'd draw and aim. If he keeps walking he lives another day. If for any reason he turns, I know he's armed and I am not going to wait to see the weapon. He is going down right then, right there. That's why I carry a S & W 357. If I need it, I am better off with it than something smaller and less accurate.

Dave

 

[huntfish]

I'll take it even one step further as an academic exercise. What if this occured in the middle of nowhere, the man takes your wallet, phone, keys, and your vehicle and you're literally stranded without the means to survive. Assuming the same situation, he turns around and you can finally pull your firearm and you're forced to shoot/kill the bad guy. Is the shooting now justifiable since you might could argue that being left alone in the wilderness and out of contact constitutes a serious threat to your safety?

You mean to say that you can't survive without your vehicle or car?

 

[miles58]

You mean to say that you can't survive without your vehicle or car?

Where I live, for six months out of the year that's a very distinct possibility.

Dave

 

[guesswho]

If he just committed an Aggrevated Assault/ armed robbery, you have a right to defend yourself or others with the use of force upto and including deadly force. If you can explain why you shot him after the "assualt" over, then so be it. The possible right answer would be he has the capability to rob and assault someone else after leaving you. He also has the capability to go to your home (your ID) and finish unfinished business because of fear of being prosecuted. So if you are in fear of your life or others you are justified in using deadly force. However I'm not a lawyer or judge or anything else. The above mentioned is only my opinion and view point.

I for one would probably draw and shoot, because the next person my not be as fortunate and may be shot by him and killed to get robbed. Oh and he does have the ability to do so, he was armed with a firearm, and did commit a felony assualt on me by pointing it at me while robbing me of my property.

As for the no witness statements. Just be truthful and don't lie to the LEO's. If you lie, it will come out in the wash, and then you WILL Be charged. It has happened before on justified shoots, if the truth would have been told from the start.

 

[guesswho]

Oh yeah, you can't shoot someone to RECOVER your property, but you can defend yourself.

 

[canderso7]

guesswho, I know a hippy liberal anti gunner that turned to guns after he was robbed at gun point and abducted into the persons car. after they had all of his stuff, they kicked him out of a moving vehicle..... his house was robbed a few days later when he was not home. Im going to connect the dots and say if they have your information and where you live they will probably use it. However, I don't think the court would let that get by on a possibility that it could happen or they could arrest everyone because there is a possibility they could commit a crime.

 

[Luke0927]

pull out wallet, cell phone, keys etc...shaking you accidentally drop them when robber goes to pick them up draw and shot the maggot

 

[gahunter12]

pull out wallet, cell phone, keys etc...shaking you accidentally drop them when robber goes to pick them up draw and shot the maggot

This has been discussed at selfdefense training. The question always comes up about drawing on the drop. 98% of armed citizens would not be able to draw on the drop and make a well placed shot to stop the threat. When drawing on the drop you CAN NOT stand on "X", meaning you have to be moving from your location to prevent the perp from have a static target. You have to be able to move, draw, and make a well places shot faster than the perp. I can draw and fire 1 shot center of mass in 1.03sec from a surrender position with my hands above my head with my Compitition holster. I slow down to 1.45 sec using my EDC leather holster.

There ain't no way I'm drawing on the drop with out a distraction in my favor unless I know I have no choice, and I know I'm a dead man or my family will die no matter what. Lots of trainers have said a simple drop of the wallet to the perps gun side could give you enough time to draw and shoot. I still question this knowing the condition your body will be in during that time. You will lose muscle memory, you will be shaking, and you will not have the sense of fill the way you normally do. Your heart will be pounding. We all talk about what we would do, but no one knows what you would do til it happens.

I carry a firearm daily to protect myself, and family. I shoot IDPA to practice my skills that I have learned through training. I pray I never find myself in this situation. Awareness is your best defense. My #1 goal is to make it home to see my wife, and kids whether I lose my wallet, or car. They can be replaced.

 

[Old Texan]

Best to go with the flow of the event in order to escape with your life and anyone's with you. Once he turns to leave, it's best to allow him to be gone. You'll spend a whole lot of time envisioning the satisfaction of having shot him and it will be frustrating to not have done so, but that frustration is better than dealing with the legal ramifications and cost, even on a righteous shoot, plus the memory you've killed someone no matter that they were a lowlifed thief.

I carry to protect my life and loved ones as a deterent. Pulling it and shooting someon is the final alternative when there is no other way out of the situation . Anyone who has other reasons, should not carry. Keep a legal expert on retainer and pray you never have to shoot someone. Ain't no room for macho or heroics.......

 

[Rich M]

NRA has insurance for the legal costs of shooting someone.
That being said if you own a gun, you should belong to the NRA. It seems like they are the only group interested in protecting your rights. The 2nd amendment stands up for and protects all the other ones.

You can't shoot him/her unless you are threatened. Then it is a judgement call - does he look like he knows how to shoot or is he just a crack addict needing a fix?

How much will a point blank gun shot hurt if said thug actually hits you?

Does he (or she) deserve to die?

Will he or she likely shoot you once you turn over your possessions?

Once they turn around, you can not shoot...as there is no threat to your life & health any more.

 

[one hogman]

Wait I found another $100 in my pocket, BOOM.