The "Faith Alone" verse... where?

[FritzMichaels]

I always hear the 'faith alone' preached over and over. Maybe yall can point that verse out to me.

The only time I can find "faith" and "alone" together in one verse... It reads....

(James 2:17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[vanguard1]

that is the only place i know of too.

 

[FritzMichaels]

that is the only place i know of too.

V1,
I will never undertand why pastors are so afraid of "works". No, we are not saved by 'works' as the bible tells us this, BUT, it is quite clear that if works do not accompany 'faith', than our faith is not a saving faith, but a dead faith. Works are the only thing we take to heaven, but pastors won't touch 'works' with a 10 ft pole.

 

[rjcruiser]

Eph 2:8-9

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast


So the question is....are we saved by faith alone or not?

 

[FritzMichaels]

No. Jesus said repent or perish. No repentance, no salvation. So no, you are not saved by faith alone. We cannot stay worldly heathens after having 'faith' or saying the little 10 second sinner's prayer and be saved. Saving faith happens because of belief and repentance. The evidence of salvation or "saving faith" (hearing the Gospel, belief, godly sorrow, repentance and then conversion) will be good works, spiritual fruit, filling of the holy spirit, hatred of sin, obedience to Christ. Thats what i gather from the bible, anywho.

 

[vanguard1]

V1,
I will never undertand why pastors are so afraid of "works". No, we are not saved by 'works' as the bible tells us this, BUT, it is quite clear that if works do not accompany 'faith', than our faith is not a saving faith, but a dead faith. Works are the only thing we take to heaven, but pastors won't touch 'works' with a 10 ft pole.

AMEN BROTHER, as someone once said " we are not saved by works, we are saved for works "

 

[FritzMichaels]

AMEN BROTHER, as someone once said " we are not saved by works, we are saved for works "

(Ephesians 2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[vanguard1]

Matthew 16:27 (King James Version)

27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


John 14:12 (King James Version)

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Matthew 5:16 (King James Version)

16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[FritzMichaels]

(Romans 2:6) Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

(2 Corinthians 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

(1 Corinthians 3:8) Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

(Revelation 22:12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

(Revelation 2:23) ...and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

 

[jmharris23]

I get what you are saying and on the whole I agree that a faith without works is no faith at all. As a pastor I preach this all the time. Jesus was very clear as to the fact that there will be fruit, if you are part of the vine.

As for faith alone, well that mostly comes from here(but I think you already know this):

2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Ro 4:2–6). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

 

[rjcruiser]

As a person who believes in a work"less" salvation...let me describe my thoughts based on scripture.

Faith leads to Repentance. Repentance leads to obedience.

Where is the salvation point in that equation? I believe it is right in the middle. Faith and Repentance are near simultaneous in occurance in my mind. Obedience takes longer to implement. An old dog doesn't learn a new trick right away.

Prime example is the thief on the cross. He had faith, repented and believed. He had no works....no baptism....nothing other than his faith.

Was he saved?



Now...let me add that as Paul says in Romans...should we go on sinning so that grace abounds? Of course not. For if this is the case, we are not truly saved.

 

[centerpin fan]

As for faith alone, well that mostly comes from here ...

I would say that it mostly comes from Martin Luther.

He added the "alone" to Romans 3:28 because, as he said himself, "Dr. Martin Luther will have it so ..."

 

[rjcruiser]

I would say that it mostly comes from Martin Luther.

He added the "alone" to Romans 3:28 because, as he said himself, "Dr. Martin Luther will have it so ..."

I was waiting for a Catholic to come along and say that.


Funny...when I look in my Bible, I don't see the word "Alone" in that verse. I even looked at other English translations and it isn't there.

28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. (NAS)

It definitely implies that it is Faith Alone...but it doesn't say that. Wonder what version Luther added that to?

 

[FritzMichaels]

As a person who believes in a work"less" salvation...let me describe my thoughts based on scripture.

Faith leads to Repentance. Repentance leads to obedience.

Where is the salvation point in that equation? I believe it is right in the middle. Faith and Repentance are near simultaneous in occurance in my mind. Obedience takes longer to implement. An old dog doesn't learn a new trick right away.

Prime example is the thief on the cross. He had faith, repented and believed. He had no works....no baptism....nothing other than his faith.

Was he saved?



Now...let me add that as Paul says in Romans...should we go on sinning so that grace abounds? Of course not. For if this is the case, we are not truly saved.

We are on the same page, i think. Here is my take (not that its right, its just my take) on salvation and works.

Salvation:
hear the Gospel
understand that we're a sinner in need of a Saviour
have godly sorrow for our sins
believe the Gospel
cry out to God for salvation (not a sinners prayer)
put our faith in Christ that he died for our sins and redeems us through his blood

Conversion will now take place:
God bestows his grace on us (saved by grace)
we're justified
we're converted
we receive the holy spirit

Evidence of true salvation:
we hate our sins
we love the word of God
we fellowship with other believers
we have good works
we become more and more sanctified
we part from the ways of the world
we're obedient to Christ
we grow in love and charity and hope
we try to crucify the flesh and walk in the spirit
and we condemn others for drinking... and we no longer curse
our ex-wives...


sorry, i was kidding on the last 2...

 

[centerpin fan]

Wonder what version Luther added that to?

His German version of 1522.

And I'm not Catholic.

 

[FritzMichaels]

I would say that it mostly comes from Martin Luther.

He added the "alone" to Romans 3:28 because, as he said himself, "Dr. Martin Luther will have it so ..."

I agree CPF. "Faith alone" is a luther and calvin thing. No wonder why we cant find it in the bible.... its not even in Luther's own bible

 

[johnnylightnin]

I agree CPF. "Faith alone" is a luther and calvin thing. No wonder why we cant find it in the bible.... its not even in Luther's own bible

Define justification for me.

 

[johnnylightnin]

Define justification for me.

Well...no takers?

How about I offer one and see if it rubs you the right way or the wrong way.

Justification: An instantaneous legal act of God in which he (1) thinks of our sins as forgiven and Christ's righteousness as belonging to us, and (2) declares us to be righteous in his sight. (Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology, page 723).

 

[FritzMichaels]

Sorry, I was working. To me 'justification' is when a persons sins are not on his account anymore but on Christ's account. That could be whenever the person repents, believes and receives the holy spirit, imo.

 

[vanguard1]

justification =just as if i never sinned at all