What is the purpose of the Athiest, Agnostics and Apologetics sub-section?

Is this a place to discuss religious and spiritual issues as they relate to atheists and agnostics or is this a place to corral the non-believers so that they can be proslelytized to all at once?

If a Muslim came on here and started telling Christians that they were going to Muslim He11 and that they were abominations to the Muslim God, would they garner infractions? I think they would.

I think they made this section to keep people who don't believe in the Christian God out of the Spiritual Discussions and Study section, where they don't really discuss or study spirituality, only Christianity. They created and named this sub-section Atheists, Agnostics and Apologetics but they never really want to discuss any issues as they relate to the sub-section. It's just another place to proselytize. How can one engage only those people that are interested in true discussion and ignore those that are only interested in vomiting scripture when this is clearly the place where such behavior should be criticized?

ambush80 said:

Is this a place to discuss religious and spiritual issues as they relate to atheists and agnostics or is this a place to corral the non-believers so that they can be proslelytized to all at once?

If a Muslim came on here and started telling Christians that they were going to Muslim He11 and that they were abominations to the Muslim God, would they garner infractions? I think they would.

I think they made this section to keep people who don't believe in the Christian God out of the Spiritual Discussions and Study section, where they don't really discuss or study spirituality, only Christianity. They created and named this sub-section Atheists, Agnostics and Apologetics but they never really want to discuss any issues as they relate to the sub-section. It's just another place to proselytize. How can one engage only those people that are interested in true discussion and ignore those that are only interested in vomiting scripture when this is clearly the place where such behavior should be criticized?

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I guess this forum seems to be a barren piece of "real state" because it is hard for those who believe nothing to plumb the depths of nothing and for those who are thoroughly uncertain to have an opinion beyond "I don't know". That pretty much leaves the matter of apologetics. I have yet to see much in the way of Islamic, Judaic, Hindu, ........ apologetics being presented. Perhaps they are disinterested in the persuasion of the lost to faith in their particular beliefs.

Remember, you are welcome to step into the other forums, but in total honesty, do you really have something to add or is it all consistently negative in nature? I choose to believe there is still hope for many, yourself included, to find the truth in what Jesus has so graciously offered. I pray this time of year brings you all you need.

You just proved his point.

drippin' rock said:

You just proved his point.

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We just ain't no darn good.

ambush80 said:

We just ain't no darn good.

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Neither am I.

StriperAddict said:

Neither am I.

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Is it mocking you to tell you how terribly sad it is that you think that?

And which is the bigger sleight, me telling you that He11 doesn't exist or you telling me that I'm going there?

I didn't explain my post, and I'm sorry.

ambush80 said:

Is it mocking you to tell you how terribly sad it is that you think that?

And which is the bigger sleight, me telling you that He11 doesn't exist or you telling me that I'm going there?

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I didn't mock you, I agreed that I'm no good... apart from the mercy of Christ. The cross of Christ tells me the entire race is on the same playing field (we are ALL sinners that need God's mercy and grace), but thru the cross we can be restored to fellowship/friendship with God. Period. No self righteousness, because I don't posess any. Check the following (emphasis added):
Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


Also, your eternal destiny is in your hands not mine. As long as you are on this side of eternity, you have just as much right to the mercy and love God thru Christ as anyone else. In fact, God loves you more than you could imagine, right where you are at. I'm sorry if there was ever anything I posted that said otherwise. God "believes in you", even if you do not now believe in Him.

Ok, enough for now, I hope this helps. But at this point I'd agree I've gone way over the 'off topic' limit, but your response got me to say only those things I believe for you and all those that hear the message of Christ.

drippin' rock said:

You just proved his point.

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Really ? I saw it more like he was answering a question.

holler tree said:

Really ? I saw it more like he was answering a question.

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Do you know what "apologetics" means? Clearly GTparts was not engaging my post from an apologetics standpoint.

The BEST THAT I AM IS A FILTHY RAG. But GOD loves me anyway.

ambush80 said:

Is this a place to discuss religious and spiritual issues as they relate to atheists and agnostics or is this a place to corral the non-believers so that they can be proslelytized to all at once?

If a Muslim came on here and started telling Christians that they were going to Muslim He11 and that they were abominations to the Muslim God, would they garner infractions? I think they would.

I think they made this section to keep people who don't believe in the Christian God out of the Spiritual Discussions and Study section, where they don't really discuss or study spirituality, only Christianity. They created and named this sub-section Atheists, Agnostics and Apologetics but they never really want to discuss any issues as they relate to the sub-section. It's just another place to proselytize. How can one engage only those people that are interested in true discussion and ignore those that are only interested in vomiting scripture when this is clearly the place where such behavior should be criticized?

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Huh?

Ambush- I do not always agree with your posts pre AAA or now, but I always enjoy them, and I respect them as well. You are certainly entitled to your own opinions and beliefs. You are not going to convince me, just like I am not going to convince you.

This sub section does seem to be a back room reserved for fights, but I don't want to fight. I just speak my mind and heart when I am on here, most likely, just like yourself.

Merry Christmas, or Happy Holidays, however you like, Joy or something, Peace? Have fun? and a Happy New Year!

BRANCHWYNN said:

The BEST THAT I AM IS A FILTHY RAG. But GOD loves me anyway.

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Another unsubstantiated statement of faith, devoid of any apologetic stance. What gives? What's the point of this?

Leo Tolstoy, an extremely devout Christian said it best IMHO
"No one really knows until they die. And then they know everything. Or they just stop asking"

I always considered myself a life long atheist, but it's difficult for me to argue with the above. And if you are being intellectually honest, it's tough to say with certainty that a god exists.

ambush80 said:

Is this a place to discuss religious and spiritual issues as they relate to atheists and agnostics or is this a place to corral the non-believers so that they can be proslelytized to all at once?

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Seems obvious by the title of the SF. It's a place for A&A to pontificate and people to faith to defend theirs.

The purpose of the room is for people who like to debate the existence of God/higher being to come here and do so. You are free here to explain or explain away God in any manner you feel free to do so.

In reality this will never work because believers use the Bible which non-believers do not trust, and non-believers use science and reasoning which believers do not completely disregard but also do not place as a higher authority than Scripture.

It is round and round argument that really doesnt get either side anywhere.

Triathloncoach said:

Leo Tolstoy, an extremely devout Christian said it best IMHO
"No one really knows until they die. And then they know everything. Or they just stop asking"

I always considered myself a life long atheist, but it's difficult for me to argue with the above. And if you are being intellectually honest, it's tough to say with certainty that a god exists.

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Seems like that would only happen if you retained any memory. He pre-supposes a "soul" or some sort of remaining consciousness. What would be the purpose of that?

drippin' rock said:

You just proved his point.

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I think you missed my point.

If the atheist has no belief in the specifics of any religious tenets, disavows the reality of a spiritual realm of any kind, is utterly convinced that there is nothing supernatural, then what is there to explore or discuss? The atheist is completely disarmed because he cannot prove a negative. He can only speak against the rationality of the deist's position, yet many who appear to be completely rational also believe in a god. They simply cannot reconcile this apparent contradiction. This is where there is an impasse. Either the deists "gets" something that the atheist does not "get" or the deist fails to "get" something that the atheist "gets".

Since many studies indicate (no, I'll not waste my time posting the sources. They have been reported on the news, in Readers Digest, psychology and medical journals, etc.) that deists generally enjoy a longer and more stable, productive and rewarding life, I suspect that they "get" something that the others do not. That is just my opinion based on the reports I have read and heard. You are welcome to your own.

Likewise, the agnostic lacks any conviction on the matter of religion or spirituality because the position is self-limiting. It hinges entirely on whether they, at any time, come to believe that a god does or does not exist. The position is incompatible with the atheist point of view and with the deist point of view. When the agnostic has said "I do not know.", he has "fired his first and only shot". At that point, it is clear they have decided not to decide. What else do they have to offer? Riding the fence just avoids making a decision, which is OK, really, what are they waiting for...... scientific proof that a god exists? ...... scientific proof that a god does NOT exist? As I have said before, the God, the God of Israel will not submit to being evaluated on the basis of the science that He created and sustains. If the intricate, orderly systems of science don't direct one to the conclusion that there is a god, a creator of incredible, uncomprehendable power and wisdom, one will probably never come to know God as He is.

Ok, I agree. There really is no argument to be had. At the end of the day, Creationism cannot be validated, nether can the Big Bang Theory. One chooses to believe and that is it. A christian may feel in his bones that God is there and present in his life every day. An evolutionist may have no doubt there is no God.

Merry Christmas.

drippin' rock said:

Ok, I agree. There really is no argument to be had. At the end of the day, Creationism cannot be validated, nether can the Big Bang Theory. One chooses to believe and that is it. A christian may feel in his bones that God is there and present in his life every day. An evolutionist may have no doubt there is no God.

Merry Christmas.

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When you relegate "magic" to an absolute last resort explanation for the mysteries of life, that's when the REAL interesting conversations start.

drippin' rock said:

Ok, I agree. There really is no argument to be had. At the end of the day, Creationism cannot be validated, nether can the Big Bang Theory. One chooses to believe and that is it. A christian may feel in his bones that God is there and present in his life every day. An evolutionist may have no doubt there is no God.

Merry Christmas.

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Exactly the point of the thread "why choose whats..."