Whoops, it was an accident.

stringmusic · Jan 12, 2011

Cant take any credit for thinking this up, my brother-in-law wrote it down and I thought it would be a good thread even though we have alot of origin post in other threads. Just wanted to see some reaction to it.

"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you overturn a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was overturned."

ambush80 · Jan 12, 2011

stringmusic said:
Cant take any credit for thinking this up, my brother-in-law wrote it down and I thought it would be a good thread even though we have alot of origin post in other threads. Just wanted to see some reaction to it.

"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you overturn a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was overturned."

Let me get this straight; God is in control of everything except for the things that He allows Himself not to be in control of. Is that right?

Furthermore, you don't really know when He has intervened and when He has "allowed" things to happen.

I don't see the need for anyone to be in control yet things happen and have happened.

In actuality, does it matter if you or I am right? Is there any way to prove it?

What we can say definitively is whether or not someone better off believing in talking donkeys or less so.

Why would you believe a book that said that God blew snot onto the dirt and people popped up? Is there anything in your experience that would indicate that something like that could happen?

ted_BSR · Jan 12, 2011

ambush80 said:
Let me get this straight; God is in control of everything except for the things that He allows Himself not to be in control of. Is that right?

Furthermore, you don't really know when He has intervened and when He has "allowed" things to happen.

I don't see the need for anyone to be in control yet things happen and have happened.

In actuality, does it matter if you or I am right? Is there any way to prove it?

What we can say definitively is whether or not someone better off believing in talking donkeys or less so.

Why would you believe a book that said that God blew snot onto the dirt and people popped up? Is there anything in your experience that would indicate that something like that could happen?

Take out God and you have the theory of evolution! At least the bible explains where the snot came from! :banana:

Thanatos · Jan 12, 2011

stringmusic said:
Cant take any credit for thinking this up, my brother-in-law wrote it down and I thought it would be a good thread even though we have alot of origin post in other threads. Just wanted to see some reaction to it.

"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you overturn a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was overturned."

This is getting at my point in my other post on this topic.

atlashunter · Jan 12, 2011

Rare or improbable events are proof of God. Is that the logic here?

stringmusic · Jan 13, 2011

atlashunter said:
Rare or improbable events are proof of God. Is that the logic here?

Change that improbable to impossible and you got you answer.

stringmusic · Jan 13, 2011

ambush80 said:
Let me get this straight; God is in control of everything except for the things that He allows Himself not to be in control of. Is that right?

This thread is based on your position on origin, not mine.

I don't see the need for anyone to be in control yet things happen and have happened.

So nothing is in control of this universe and all that happens in it?

In actuality, does it matter if you or I am right? Is there any way to prove it?

Yes, there are extremely terrible consequences if you are wrong. No there is not 100% proof, thats why I have faith that what I believe is the truth.

What we can say definitively is whether or not someone better off believing in talking donkeys or less so.

If a talking donkey was the main theme of the Bible, you would be correct in your assumption, but the main theme in the Bible is Jesus Christ.

Why would you believe a book that said that God blew snot onto the dirt and people popped up? Is there anything in your experience that would indicate that something like that could happen?

Why would someone believe the OP? As the OP states, why do you believe what you hear or learn, its all just random events that got you here? Truth is not real if the OP is the way things happened.

atlashunter · Jan 13, 2011

stringmusic said:
Change that improbable to impossible and you got you answer.

Do that and you kill your own position.

stringmusic · Jan 13, 2011

atlashunter said:
Do that and you kill your own position.

Humanize God, and your exactly right. God is not bound to the impossible, my position is alive, thank you very much.

atlashunter · Jan 13, 2011

stringmusic said:
Humanize God, and your exactly right. God is not bound to the impossible, my position is alive, thank you very much.

You kill your position because you are assuming something to be impossible that most likely isn't.

stringmusic · Jan 13, 2011

atlashunter said:
You kill your position because you are assuming something to be impossible that most likely isn't.

I dont really know where your going with this, I'm not assuming anything, exept an evolutionary theory. Do you have an argument to the OP?

atlashunter · Jan 13, 2011

As I understand the OP, the odds that everything would happen so that we would be here are extremely slim, therefore it must have been the work of God. Is that right?

stringmusic · Jan 13, 2011

atlashunter said:
As I understand the OP, the odds that everything would happen so that we would be here are extremely slim, therefore it must have been the work of God. Is that right?

Its not talking about any odds, its assuming the position of the big bang.

The first assumption

stringmusic said:
"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you overturn a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was overturned."

atlashunter · Jan 13, 2011

So because we evolved we can't know anything to be true?

stringmusic · Jan 13, 2011

atlashunter said:
So because we evolved we can't know anything to be true?

stringmusic said:
"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you overturn a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was overturned."

If the big bang were true, and EVERYTHING is a by-product of random chance or an accident, then why would you have reason to believe anything were true?

atlashunter · Jan 13, 2011

Sorry but I don't see what the one has to do with the other.

stringmusic · Jan 13, 2011

atlashunter said:
Sorry but I don't see what the one has to do with the other.

stringmusic said:
"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you overturn a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was overturned."

Its just stating if everything was an accident, then your thoughts are an accident so there is no truth. Also, notice the analogy at the end.

atlashunter · Jan 13, 2011

You're ignoring the role of natural selection.

stringmusic · Jan 13, 2011

atlashunter said:
You're ignoring the role of natural selection.

Whats natural about the accident? The OP is speaking of before natural selection, how did the natural get to the selecting? Also if everything is a by-product from the first accident is the selection process by nature an accident, that would make me and you an accident.

atlashunter · Jan 13, 2011

stringmusic said:
Whats natural about the accident? The OP is speaking of before natural selection, how did the natural get to the selecting? Also if everything is a by-product from the first accident is the selection process by nature an accident, that would make me and you an accident.

There are certain environmental conditions for life as we know it to be possible. Those conditions don't exist in most places in the universe which is what we would expect of slim odds. If only one in a million planets have the necessary conditions to support life then earth is one of those rare exceptions. Once the conditions are here and life gets a start then the process of natural selection can take over from there to evolve more complex creatures including intelligent life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection

Whoops, it was an accident.

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