Why was Jesus baptized?

[hobbs27]

Leaving opinion out of the subject(if that's allowed), Jesus said He must be baptized to 'fulfill all righteousness'.
I take that to mean "it's what God wants Me to do".

As far as baptism being nothing more than our reenactment of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, the bible doesn't even hint at that possibility.

In the Bible, weren't Christians told, "baptism doth now save you"?

It does indeed...but then it redefines baptism, doesnt it? I dont know but would like your input on what this means.

Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

So is baptism that saves actually an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ ,or is it the waters of baptism?

 

[centerpin fan]

It does indeed...but then it redefines baptism, doesnt it?

No, Peter just expounds on his previous comments.

So is baptism that saves actually an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ ,or is it the waters of baptism?

Baptism in water is the appeal to God. I realize that is not the dominant view in Protestantism, but it is the dominant view in pretty much everything else.

 

[hobbs27]

The YLT has this verse not saying baptism :

Also to which an antitype doth now saves us-- baptism.

Interesting.

 

[centerpin fan]

The YLT has this verse not saying baptism :

Also to which an antitype doth now saves us-- baptism.

It sure looks like it's saying baptism.

 

[hobbs27]

It sure looks like it's saying baptism.

You're correct. I was so focused on this one verse I failed to look at the previous and consider the context. Shame on me, cause I should know better.

 

[Ronnie T]

It does indeed...but then it redefines baptism, doesnt it? I dont know but would like your input on what this means.

Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

So is baptism that saves actually an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ ,or is it the waters of baptism?

I believe it has a lot to do with your willingness to submit to baptism. Your desire to do as commanded.

 

[Israel]

We may have been the people of the "end around" play, once.
The "shortcut" people, the hoping to hop over the back fence to Eden people.
The "my grievance is so egregious I won't talk to the son, I want the head honcho, and now!", people.

This being "found in fashion as a man" trip only works to our benefit, God's glory, and the comfort of others when we are settled in this ,
"You both know Me and know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know."

We are either "sent" people, not of our own will, and content in relinquishing any notion of being good of ourselves, but instead waiting in eager anticipation for the good of God to be shown us, as even our Master has said:
For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed.
Or we are not.
It could be peculiar to our hearing to understand of whom Jesus spoke as having the attitude of the unprofitable servant.
But who else do we know that fits this:
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

I know of only one in the all.
It's enough to hear him.
Do we know what he calls those who hear and keep him?
Do we get a new name?
A new abode?
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

There's maybe only one thing I have always been certain of, my unworthiness to be loved.
I have met only one man who is more certain of a thing than I am.
Funny what cracking the door to him does to such a laboriously built house.

 

[gemcgrew]

Leaving opinion out of the subject(if that's allowed), Jesus said He must be baptized to 'fulfill all righteousness'.
I take that to mean "it's what God wants Me to do".

As far as baptism being nothing more than our reenactment of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, the bible doesn't even hint at that possibility.

In the Bible, weren't Christians told, "baptism doth now save you"?

 

[mtnwoman]

I believe it has a lot to do with your willingness to submit to baptism. Your desire to do as commanded.

I agree.

 

[mtnwoman]

In the Bible, weren't Christians told, "baptism doth now save you"?

I believe what saves us is the blood of Jesus....I don't think baptism alone saves you. It was quite a spiritual experience for me when I was baptized, I felt clean and my sins were washed away...even though I have to 'wash my feet daily' and repent. I didn't die in the flesh as Christ did, nor did I resurrect in the flesh, I died a spiritual death of myself, resurrected into a new 'spiritual being', baptism washed my fleshly ways away. which made me, as a human clean and forgiven. What really washes my sins away is the blood of Christ, not the water....the water is symbolic of the blood.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Artfuldodger]

What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/

 

[Lowjack]

Yeshua was baptized in preparation for the service to his people:
Baptism is Jewish

Not everyone knows the Jewish cultural background of baptism, including most Jewish people. This is especially evident in the way that baptism is commonly perceived today. On the other hand, if we return to the Bible, it's another story.

Who were the first Baptists? They were Jews! This would include Yochanan ben Zechariah, better known as John the Baptist. It would also involve all the Jewish talmidim (disciples) of Yeshua who subsequently baptized new believers. Moreover, it goes all the way back into the Tanach many centuries earlier.

The Biblical Principles of Baptism

Biblical principles are always established first in some manner in Torah. It might be a specific command by G-d that later is brought out in its totality in the life and teachings of Yeshua. Or it might be in a historical event that foreshadows a fulfillment later on. Both of these concepts are evident in the case of baptism.

Exodus—the historical foreshadowing

After the culmination of the story of Passover, the Israelites were released from slavery in Egypt. Exodus 14 tells about how Pharaoh changed his mind and his army pursued after them. When they reached the Red Sea, Moses worked a miracle and parted the waters. The people followed G-d's pillar of fire that was leading them and then we are told:


"But the sons of Israel walked on dry land through the midst of the sea, and the waters were like a wall to them on their right hand and on their left." ( Ex. 14:29)

The order of events is very informative to us.
•The people had previously been redeemed by G-d, spared the plague of death and released from slavery.


•Then by faith they passed through a wall of water on either side that was higher than their heads.


•Their emergence on the other side would enable them to become a nation serving G-d and being blessed by Him, when they reached Mt. Sinai a short time later. But at the moment of their deliverance at the sea, they testified in the form of a song, in which they sang: "The L-rd is my strength and song, And He has become my salvation; This is my G-d, and I will praise Him; My father's G-d, and I will extol Him" (Ex. 15:2).

This, then, is the historical context of immersion : G-d does His work of redemption and the people follow Him in obedience. This act is followed by a sign that serves as a witness to the ways of G-d.

Mikveh—the foundation in the Torah

The foundation for all biblical principles, including baptism, is found in the Torah. Within the writings of Moses, it has been determined that G-d gave 613 instructions, commonly called the Law, to the nation of Israel. These principles were distinguished by three distinct categories. There are numerous passages of Scripture that describe the Torah in this way. For example, as Moses was about to give the complete Torah to the people of Israel just before entering the Promised Land, he cited each of these categories:


"These are the testimonies (edot) and the statutes (chukim) and the ordinances (mishpatim) which Moses spoke to the sons of Israel, when they came out from Egypt..." (Deut. 4:45)

The characteristics of these three categories can be summed up in this way:

The Categories of Torah Instructions

Ordinances (mishpatim) Civil ordinances enabling people to exercise justice and to live in harmony, such as laws prohibiting murder, theft, etc.
Testimonies (edot) Feasts and rituals, (including sacrifices) that bear witness to G-d and His ways.
Statutes(chukim) Practices that serve to strengthen the bond between G-d and His people through obedience, usually without any explanation why the people should do them. These include the dietary laws, not mixing wool and linen in clothing etc.

The Hebrew word for this last category—chukim—in the singular is chuk. It is derived from a root verb haqaq, which comes into English as the word "hack." It is a picture of hacking or cutting or engraving into an object. Perhaps the best way to think of it is two lovers hacking their initials into a tree somewhere, leaving a permanent mark indicating their relationship. It really has no practical result. It just means marking or signifying something that was important to them.

One of the commandments from the category of statutes (chukim) was the mikveh bath. It involved the way individuals demonstrated their eligibility for full privileges and responsibilities within the community. In the Torah, it is taught that there were a variety of ways that people could become symbolically unclean, such as touching a dead body or during a woman's monthly menstrual cycle. The entire 15th chapter of Leviticus provides the specific details.

G-d commanded that whenever someone became ritually impure, he or she had to go to the mikveh bath in order to restore one's status in the community. The word mikveh literally meant "a collection or gathering together." Over time it came to be most associated with a collection of water (such as a pond or reservoir).

We also know this about the mikveh—the water had to be "living water" from a spring or river. It had to be running water. The individual was completely immersed under the water (Heb. tevilah). And it had nothing to do with the salvation of the person.

It was all about signifying that you had been given a new life of blessings and responsibilities in the community. In biblical times, it demonstrated through obedience that a person was spiritually clean and eligible for full privileges and service within the nation of Israel.

 

[hobbs27]

Lowjack, while you're on the topic, would you explain the difference of the Old Covenant baptism and the New? What does it mean to be Baptized into Christ, or Baptized in the fire?

Thanks.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Lowjack, while you're on the topic, would you explain the difference of the Old Covenant baptism and the New? What does it mean to be Baptized into Christ, or Baptized in the fire?

Thanks.

Lowjack, while your at it, what was the difference between why or for what reason John baptized people compared to why or for what reason Jesus instructed his disciples to baptize?
If there was a difference.

 

[1gr8bldr]

Yeshua was baptized in preparation for the service to his people:
Baptism is Jewish

Not everyone knows the Jewish cultural background of baptism, including most Jewish people. This is especially evident in the way that baptism is commonly perceived today. On the other hand, if we return to the Bible, it's another story.

Who were the first Baptists? They were Jews! This would include Yochanan ben Zechariah, better known as John the Baptist. It would also involve all the Jewish talmidim (disciples) of Yeshua who subsequently baptized new believers. Moreover, it goes all the way back into the Tanach many centuries earlier.

The Biblical Principles of Baptism

Biblical principles are always established first in some manner in Torah. It might be a specific command by G-d that later is brought out in its totality in the life and teachings of Yeshua. Or it might be in a historical event that foreshadows a fulfillment later on. Both of these concepts are evident in the case of baptism.

Exodus—the historical foreshadowing

After the culmination of the story of Passover, the Israelites were released from slavery in Egypt. Exodus 14 tells about how Pharaoh changed his mind and his army pursued after them. When they reached the Red Sea, Moses worked a miracle and parted the waters. The people followed G-d's pillar of fire that was leading them and then we are told:


"But the sons of Israel walked on dry land through the midst of the sea, and the waters were like a wall to them on their right hand and on their left." ( Ex. 14:29)

The order of events is very informative to us.
•The people had previously been redeemed by G-d, spared the plague of death and released from slavery.


•Then by faith they passed through a wall of water on either side that was higher than their heads.


•Their emergence on the other side would enable them to become a nation serving G-d and being blessed by Him, when they reached Mt. Sinai a short time later. But at the moment of their deliverance at the sea, they testified in the form of a song, in which they sang: "The L-rd is my strength and song, And He has become my salvation; This is my G-d, and I will praise Him; My father's G-d, and I will extol Him" (Ex. 15:2).

This, then, is the historical context of immersion : G-d does His work of redemption and the people follow Him in obedience. This act is followed by a sign that serves as a witness to the ways of G-d.

Mikveh—the foundation in the Torah

The foundation for all biblical principles, including baptism, is found in the Torah. Within the writings of Moses, it has been determined that G-d gave 613 instructions, commonly called the Law, to the nation of Israel. These principles were distinguished by three distinct categories. There are numerous passages of Scripture that describe the Torah in this way. For example, as Moses was about to give the complete Torah to the people of Israel just before entering the Promised Land, he cited each of these categories:


"These are the testimonies (edot) and the statutes (chukim) and the ordinances (mishpatim) which Moses spoke to the sons of Israel, when they came out from Egypt..." (Deut. 4:45)

The characteristics of these three categories can be summed up in this way:

The Categories of Torah Instructions

Ordinances (mishpatim) Civil ordinances enabling people to exercise justice and to live in harmony, such as laws prohibiting murder, theft, etc.
Testimonies (edot) Feasts and rituals, (including sacrifices) that bear witness to G-d and His ways.
Statutes(chukim) Practices that serve to strengthen the bond between G-d and His people through obedience, usually without any explanation why the people should do them. These include the dietary laws, not mixing wool and linen in clothing etc.

The Hebrew word for this last category—chukim—in the singular is chuk. It is derived from a root verb haqaq, which comes into English as the word "hack." It is a picture of hacking or cutting or engraving into an object. Perhaps the best way to think of it is two lovers hacking their initials into a tree somewhere, leaving a permanent mark indicating their relationship. It really has no practical result. It just means marking or signifying something that was important to them.

One of the commandments from the category of statutes (chukim) was the mikveh bath. It involved the way individuals demonstrated their eligibility for full privileges and responsibilities within the community. In the Torah, it is taught that there were a variety of ways that people could become symbolically unclean, such as touching a dead body or during a woman's monthly menstrual cycle. The entire 15th chapter of Leviticus provides the specific details.

G-d commanded that whenever someone became ritually impure, he or she had to go to the mikveh bath in order to restore one's status in the community. The word mikveh literally meant "a collection or gathering together." Over time it came to be most associated with a collection of water (such as a pond or reservoir).

We also know this about the mikveh—the water had to be "living water" from a spring or river. It had to be running water. The individual was completely immersed under the water (Heb. tevilah). And it had nothing to do with the salvation of the person.

It was all about signifying that you had been given a new life of blessings and responsibilities in the community. In biblical times, it demonstrated through obedience that a person was spiritually clean and eligible for full privileges and service within the nation of Israel.

The context of this does not seem to fit well with John's baptismal. His was for the remission of sins. People flocked to John, not because he was a good preacher, not that they had even heard him before, but because that they had heard that someone was preaching a forgiveness of sins. This tells me that among the religious, people observed the white washed religious crowd and saw a need for something, my thought is that they could not live up to the perceived par of the outward view of the religious, so they sought another route, hearing of a baptismal of forgiveness, they sought out John. This fits with his remark to those whom he said, who told you to flee from the coming wrath. They had come to question or trap him, but he with what he said implys that others were coming for this reason, not communial standing. I'm not argueing that any of your post not be right, just pointing out how John's baptismal by context looks different

 

[Artfuldodger]

The context of this does not seem to fit well with John's baptismal. His was for the remission of sins. People flocked to John, not because he was a good preacher, not that they had even heard him before, but because that they had heard that someone was preaching a forgiveness of sins. This tells me that among the religious, people observed the white washed religious crowd and saw a need for something, my thought is that they could not live up to the perceived par of the outward view of the religious, so they sought another route, hearing of a baptismal of forgiveness, they sought out John. This fits with his remark to those whom he said, who told you to flee from the coming wrath. They had come to question or trap him, but he with what he said implys that others were coming for this reason, not communial standing. I'm not argueing that any of your post not be right, just pointing out how John's baptismal by context looks different

Amen, and I believe people are still fleeing the white washed religious crowd for a baptism of repentance.
I just wish more people knew what their repentance was.

 

[hobbs27]

Amen, and I believe people are still fleeing the white washed religious crowd for a baptism of repentance.
I just wish more people knew what their repentance was.

I thought it was repentance from non belief.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I thought it was repentance from non belief.

Me too, but many Christians believe it is repentance from sinning. Not the repentance or change of mind that they can't quit sinning and now believe Jesus died for their sins.

 

[Ruger#3]

Good discussion, thank you all. Interesting reference from the Old Testament in light of Lowjack's post.

Ezekiel 36:24–28

The Lord says this: I am not doing this for my sake, House of Israel, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. I mean to display the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned among them. And the nations will learn that I am the Lord – it is the Lord who speaks – when I display my holiness for your sake before their eyes. Then I am going to take you from among the nations and gather you together from all the foreign countries, and bring you home to your own land. I shall pour clean water over you and you will be cleansed; I shall cleanse you of all your defilement and all your idols. I shall give you a new heart, and put a new spirit in you; I shall remove the heart of stone from your bodies and give you a heart of flesh instead. I shall put my spirit in you, and make you keep my laws and sincerely respect my observances. You will live in the land which I gave your ancestors. You shall be my people and I will be your God.

 

[Lowjack]

The context of this does not seem to fit well with John's baptismal. His was for the remission of sins. People flocked to John, not because he was a good preacher, not that they had even heard him before, but because that they had heard that someone was preaching a forgiveness of sins. This tells me that among the religious, people observed the white washed religious crowd and saw a need for something, my thought is that they could not live up to the perceived par of the outward view of the religious, so they sought another route, hearing of a baptismal of forgiveness, they sought out John. This fits with his remark to those whom he said, who told you to flee from the coming wrath. They had come to question or trap him, but he with what he said implys that others were coming for this reason, not communial standing. I'm not argueing that any of your post not be right, just pointing out how John's baptismal by context looks different

It is well known by the Jewish sages and as part of the ritual of becoming a Rabbi , that one had to show publically ones intent to go into de service of God by the Mikva ( Baptism) this is the reason Yeshua did it , not as repenting of sin , that would not apply to him, but Giving his life to the service would as prescribed by the Torah.
Been Baptized by fire would be a total new concept , it was the sign from God to the believers of this new Covenant that they were saved"Baptism by fire is not found as a rule in Judaism.