Unreason

ambush80 · Apr 28, 2017

Madman said:
I could not care less either way.

Fair enough.

bullethead · Apr 28, 2017

Madman said:
All I see is someone who has a desire to twist what they see.

What do you think it says?

I look at my wife and children and don't see a God who wants to kill me. I see a God that gave his life for mine. I see a God that continues to call His creation back to him, even though it curses Him and throws rocks.

Game, set, match. If you can't see from what is evident in His creation then you you have made your decision.
You claim to have everything you believe set scientifically and mathematically, but you know you don't, you know this is a heart condition and not an intellectual decision.

I'd like to meet the "Christian" that wounded you so badly.

His creation is no different than the creation credit 10,000 other gods get. The obvious points you make are obvious for every believer in every god of every religion.

ambush80 · Apr 28, 2017

Madman said:
All I see is someone who has a desire to twist what they see.

So unless I see your God then I'm twisting what I see?

Madman said:
What do you think it says?

First of all I can't see invisible things.

If we can see aspects of Him in us or how the Universe is arranged I would say that he can be jealous, murderous, kind, indifferent, brutal, destructive, creative. Probably some other stuff.

Madman said:
I look at my wife and children and don't see a God who wants to kill me. I see a God that gave his life for mine. I see a God that continues to call His creation back to him, even though it curses Him and throws rocks.

If you look at how unkind the elements are and how most of the world and the universe is inhospitable to us i don't see how you come to the conclusion that God doesn't want to kill you. You would have to do some mental gymnastics and say something like "His ways are not our ways and we can't judge his actions based on our limited knowledge" Like I've said before, you can apply that to any other Cause you choose.

I've heard that some believers say that God eventually just gives up and lets unbelievers have their unbelief. Is He still calling them then? Which is it?

Madman said:
Game, set, match. If you can't see from what is evident in His creation then you you have made your decision.
You claim to have everything you believe set scientifically and mathematically, but you know you don't, you know this is a heart condition and not an intellectual decision.

I'd like to meet the "Christian" that wounded you so badly.

It's just your interpretation. It's not self evident or everyone would believe it. Is it hard or easy to believe? Did he make it clear or confusing? Clearly it's not something as universally understood as "Hot stove".

Israel · Apr 29, 2017

If we can see aspects of Him in us or how the Universe is arranged I would say that he can be jealous, murderous, kind, indifferent, brutal, destructive, creative. Probably some other stuff.

With the kind You show Yourself kind; With the blameless You show Yourself blameless; With the pure You show Yourself pure, And with the crooked You show Yourself astute. For You save an afflicted people, But haughty eyes You abase.…

That He would ever show Himself at all is what is most often called...grace.

ambush80 · Apr 29, 2017

Israel said:
With the kind You show Yourself kind; With the blameless You show Yourself blameless; With the pure You show Yourself pure, And with the crooked You show Yourself astute. For You save an afflicted people, But haughty eyes You abase.…

That He would ever show Himself at all is what is most often called...grace.

I contend that you have "seen" Him only in your imagination.

bullethead · Apr 29, 2017

Israel said:
With the kind You show Yourself kind; With the blameless You show Yourself blameless; With the pure You show Yourself pure, And with the crooked You show Yourself astute. For You save an afflicted people, But haughty eyes You abase.…

That He would ever show Himself at all is what is most often called...grace.

Israel, ambush has asked you at least a dozen times to explain what god looks like and sounds like. Ambush asks you personally because you often refer to seeing god and hearing god.

Is it that you have never seen or heard god but just use those adjectives to romanticise your writings?

If you have seen and heard god what does he look like? What does he sound like? How has he appeared to you and what did he say?

formula1 · Apr 29, 2017

ambush80 said:
Thanks for that honest, eloquent, and insightful response.

I agree that faith is the lynchpin of belief. I also agree that faith cannot be acquired by the exercise of logic. Madman disagrees. He believes that his faith is rooted in logic as far as I can tell. Maybe if you and he discussed that it would help me to see how you both arrived at belief.

You're welcome!

I really don't know what Madman believes but I am relatively sure that initial step toward God sure doesn't seem logical. It just gets easier with time and experience.

I rarely discuss things in this forum but I for one wanted you and others like you to know I do understand your dilemma. I simply want you and anyone who reads this to know you are infinitely more valuable to the God you do not know than you realize. I'm not one who comes here to prove anything to you. That is His doing and he doesn't need my help! I will just say that I will pray for that encounter you seek and also that you recognize it when it comes.

Wishing you only the best!

ambush80 · Apr 29, 2017

formula1 said:
You're welcome!

I really don't know what Madman believes but I am relatively sure that initial step toward God sure doesn't seem logical. It just gets easier with time and experience.

I rarely discuss things in this forum but I for one wanted you and others like you to know I do understand your dilemma. I simply want you and anyone who reads this to know you are infinitely more valuable to the God you do not know than you realize. I'm not one who comes here to prove anything to you. That is His doing and he doesn't need my help! I will just say that I will pray for that encounter you seek and also that you recognize it when it comes.

Wishing you only the best!

Best wishes to you too!

ambush80 · Apr 29, 2017

bullethead said:
Israel, ambush has asked you at least a dozen times to explain what god looks like and sounds like. Ambush asks you personally because you often refer to seeing god and hearing god.

Is it that you have never seen or heard god but just use those adjectives to romanticise your writings?

If you have seen and heard god what does he look like? What does he sound like? How has he appeared to you and what did he say?

At this point I would even appreciate "There's a feeling I get when I look to the West and my spirit is crying for leaving." as an answer.

bullethead · Apr 29, 2017

ambush80 said:
At this point I would even appreciate "There's a feeling I get when I look to the West and my spirit is crying for leaving." as an answer.

He has kind of committed himself to more than that and I am very interested to see if we get a straight answer or a self question and answer forum.

Israel · Apr 29, 2017

ambush80 said:
I contend that have "seen" Him only in your imagination.

It is as simply contended that you only see me in yours.
But then, as to all.
Even yourself.

ambush80 · Apr 30, 2017

Israel said:
It is as simply contended that you only see me in yours.
But then, as to all.
Even yourself.

In my imaginings there is enough room for both us.

And Him.

Israel · Apr 30, 2017

ambush80 said:
In my imaginings there is enough room for both us.

And Him.

That's me laughing with joy, not derision.

ambush80 · Apr 30, 2017

Israel said:
That's me laughing with joy, not derision.

bullethead · May 1, 2017

bullethead said:
Israel, ambush has asked you at least a dozen times to explain what god looks like and sounds like. Ambush asks you personally because you often refer to seeing god and hearing god.

Is it that you have never seen or heard god but just use those adjectives to romanticise your writings?

If you have seen and heard god what does he look like? What does he sound like? How has he appeared to you and what did he say?

Israel?

StriperAddict · May 13, 2017

amen

ambush80 said:
In my imaginings there is enough room for both us.

And Him.

Yes. I would hope 'His' goodness comes your way far greater than I've experienced myself... I really mean that

ambush80 · May 13, 2017

StriperAddict said:
Yes. I would hope 'His' goodness comes your way far greater than I've experienced myself... I really mean that

That's a very nice sentiment. Thank you. I'm glad you have a way to feel like your life is meaningful despite hardships.

Unreason

ambush80

Senior Member

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety

ambush80

Senior Member

Israel

BANNED

ambush80

Senior Member

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety

formula1

Daily Bible Verse Organizer

ambush80

Senior Member

ambush80

Senior Member

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety

Israel

BANNED

ambush80

Senior Member

Israel

BANNED

ambush80

Senior Member

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety

StriperAddict

Senior Member

ambush80

Senior Member

Similar threads

Latest posts

Share this page