Georgias deer herd by the numbers and by those who know

Throwback · Apr 29, 2012

Jeff Phillips said:
Your joking right?

More accurate based on what?

Did someone actually go out in the field and verify a population?

Have they adjusted their program to include predators? (See this months GON on some data about Fort Rucker that verifies the work done at SRS)

If you know of something that backs up their computer program please provide it. This article is the same ol fluff we always see from WRD

jeff it has been explained time and time again how they get their numbers and why we went away from a physical tagging system. your not wanting to believe it doesn't mean it is wrong.

T

Jeff Phillips · Apr 29, 2012

Throwback said:
jeff it has been explained time and time again how they get their numbers and why we went away from a physical tagging system. your not wanting to believe it doesn't mean it is wrong.

T

T - I could care less about the physical tagging piece of the arguement. They are using bad data, have admitted that the data is flawed, and continue to publish this junk science as the truth.

Charlie has admitted on this forum that they do not use calculations that are anywhere close to the predation numbers that have been verified in neighboring states.

Our recruitment numbers DO NOT match the program. It has been proven in the field, both in Alabama and South Carolina, and by folks in Georgia reporting what they are actually seeing in the field. Our recruitment is around .2/doe and has been for several years.

Ronald Regan said "trust but verify". I have yet to see any verification from our WRD biologists so I do not trust their numbers. I do trust what I have seen in the field and from the roads all over Georgia and I have to question their numbers.

Expect me to keep calling them out , both all over the internet and in the meetings, until they can provide some verifable proof. I ain't holding my breath...

C.Killmaster · Apr 29, 2012

Jeff Phillips said:
Your joking right?

More accurate based on what?

Did someone actually go out in the field and verify a population?

Have they adjusted their program to include predators? (See this months GON on some data about Fort Rucker that verifies the work done at SRS)

If you know of something that backs up their computer program please provide it. This article is the same ol fluff we always see from WRD

Do you have another alternative for estimating a statewide population of deer? Prior to computer population modeling there was no way to estimate a statewide population.

The model does, and always has, account for predation on fawns. It requires the input of fawn recruitment rates which are determined in the field. It also includes a 20% adult mortality rate for deaths other than hunting.

Recruitment rates in Georgia are not as low as the Savannah River Site (SRS) that you alluded to, Georgia=0.55, SRS=0.25. In fact, our lowest recruitment rates by region are in the Blue Ridge Mountains which is around 0.35. Notice the considerably fewer doe days in that region? There very well could be a few isolated areas with recruitment similar to SRS, but not on a regional area. Additionally, there have been several years of field research in Georgia showing recruitment rates between 0.40 and 0.60.

NOYDB · Apr 30, 2012

He just *KNOWS* they are wrong.

They can't be right because, well they don't agree with what he already believes.

Mako22 · Apr 30, 2012

Philbow said:
I agree statistical analysis is completely wrong, hunting regulations should be based on internet forum anecdotal posts. Doe seasons should be curtailed and replaced with black panther season since more posts concern seeing black panthers than doe sightings. The normal tan panthers, mountain lions, can only be killed on odd Tuesdays during November and December, they seem more rare than the black variety.

Your wrong as my data says that tan panthers can be hunted only on Thursdays at midnight.

mtr3333 · Apr 30, 2012

Don't worry. All is well. We have plenty of deer and WRD/DNR has a good estimate of Georgia's herd.

Philbow · Apr 30, 2012

Woodsman69 said:
Your wrong as my data says that tan panthers can be hunted only on Thursdays at midnight.

If your data does not support my ideas it must be wrong. Did you include "women being murdered screams" in your post counts?

Paint Brush · Apr 30, 2012

Are you kidding me!

I would like to see where that square mile is in the Mtn,Region that has 16 deer on it.

JB0704 · Apr 30, 2012

Throwback said:
T

Comments like what you quoted are what is frustrating about this issue. If you don't see deer folks say "you aren't hunting enough," or "you aren't hunting right." Dismissing the other opinion doesn't make your's correct.

All I know is that I have hunted in three different counties in three different parts of the state for 20 years. And what I am certain of is that deer seen per time in the stand has decreased dramatically over the last 5+ years.

I think everbody agrees that there are 2/3 the deer now that there was 10 years ago (1.4 million to 900k). That is by design.

My question is, if the state herd was lowered intentionally, how much lower are we trying to get it before we change cuurent practice? If the current system was implemented to kill off the deer, we know it worked, why do we think it will stop lowering the deer population?

JB0704 · Apr 30, 2012

Overall the deer herd is declining,” said Georgia Wildlife Resources Division Biologist Charlie Killmaster. “We have liberalized the bag limits and the reduction is by design. We are now getting the herd down to a reasonable level, which ideally is about one million animals.

From what I understand, the deer herd is now under the target of 1 million. Why are we keeping the things that were implemented to lower the herd if we are now below target numbers?

Jeff Phillips · Apr 30, 2012

C.Killmaster said:
The model does, and always has, account for predation on fawns. It requires the input of fawn recruitment rates which are determined in the field. It also includes a 20% adult mortality rate for deaths other than hunting.

Recruitment rates in Georgia are not as low as the Savannah River Site (SRS) that you alluded to, Georgia=0.55, SRS=0.25. In fact, our lowest recruitment rates by region are in the Blue Ridge Mountains which is around 0.35. Notice the considerably fewer doe days in that region? There very well could be a few isolated areas with recruitment similar to SRS, but not on a regional area. Additionally, there have been several years of field research in Georgia showing recruitment rates between 0.40 and 0.60.

What rate on the fawn predation? Based on what study? Where was the study done?

How do you account for Fort Rucker and SRS having recruitment rates in the .20 range and the state that is between them is 3 times that rate? Based on what study?

I guess some folks believe everything they are told. I believe what I see.

DeepweR · Apr 30, 2012

If their right or wrong,,, it don't matter to me,, we have plenty of deer where I hunt.

Throwback · Apr 30, 2012

I found this interesting map.

Jeff Phillips · Apr 30, 2012

So we are below average T?

redlevel · Apr 30, 2012

Jeff Phillips said:
So we are below average T?

We are about average. We are a "medium risk" state.

I don't know about the rest of the state, but there are still about twice too many deer in Taylor County. Both me and my daughter have had deer run into the side of our vehicles in the last twelve months. I have killed two deer that were trapped by a hind leg caught in my fence in the last six months. I am on my way outside to put up my deer proof electric fence so my peas won't disappear when they hit the two-leaf stage.

I still say that deer hunters should pay a $50 surcharge when they purchase a license so that landowners, motorists, gardeners, farmers, and insurance companies don't have to subsidize their sport.

Deer hunters need to get rid of the "dove shoot" mentality.

JB0704 · Apr 30, 2012

deep'we R said:
If their right or wrong,,, it don't matter to me,, we have plenty of deer where I hunt.

Would it matter if that changed?

JB0704 · Apr 30, 2012

Throwback said:
I found this interesting map.

How is that interesting to the discussion? Maryland and Arkansas both have higher deer / car collsions than we do. Is the hunting better there?

For that matter, Pennsylvania has a much higher rate. They use a WMU system, and they are getting some great results. But, they manage the deer a lot different than we do. It is not the "honor system" we have.

Mako22 · Apr 30, 2012

Philbow said:
If your data does not support my ideas it must be wrong. Did you include "women being murdered screams" in your post counts?

I see from your avatar that you killed a deer using a primitive bow wrapped in rattle snake skin. Considering that you made a kill that way I now know that my data is all flawed. I realize that you are a man that knows what he is talking about, sorry I stepped out of line.

Mako22 · Apr 30, 2012

I just checked my post count on this forum and I am well over 4000 post and am approaching 4500 post at a fast pace. Pleace consider this when arguing with me on here as I obviously know more than most of you newbies do based on my high post count.

elfiii · Apr 30, 2012

I am firmly convinced if WRD stated based on statistical anaylsis there is a 100% probability the sun will surely rise tomorrow there would be people on here who would argue WRD's statistics are wrong and mean it.

Georgias deer herd by the numbers and by those who know

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