45-70 barnes

[Wire Nut]

I use RCBS dies but I was having the same issue a while back. I was running the expander down too far. I kept adjusting the crimp till I crushed cases. I only run the expander in till I can barely get the bullet to sit in the case. Hope this helps

 

[Jester896]

Lee factory crimp die

I thought you were using a seater to crimp for some reason...you shouldn't be having this issue with a FCD.

maybe some pictures would help...seems like some things are missing

 

[bullethead]

A couple of thoughts.
I would measure the diameter of the bullet just to sure.
2nd thought is that even though the 45-70 is considered a straight wall case, they are actually tapered. I am wondering if being .060-.080 shorter if that is enough to allow some wiggle at the base in conjunction with the crimp ending up in the relief groove space instead of on the edge of a band??????
Thought #3. Be sure that the sizing die is sizing down as far as possible since that case is already shorter than standard.

 

[Jester896]

i agree..
what is the inside dimension of a sized case from the die used?
have you loaded with these dies prior to this?

OD of sized case at the neck...if you will... should be .480. I am going to guess the brass is .010-.011 thick. ID should be about .460 +/-. If that is the case the OD of his loaded bullet would be .478 (.458 + .020). That is a bunch of tension.

am I way off @bullethead

 

[bullethead]

i agree..
what is the inside dimension of a sized case from the die used?
have you loaded with these dies prior to this?

OD of sized case at the neck...if you will... should be .480. I am going to guess the brass is .010-.011 thick. ID should be about .460 +/-. If that is the case the OD of his loaded bullet would be .478 (.458 + .020). That is a bunch of tension.

am I way off @bullethead

You are not off using those figures at all. But those might be figures for a standard length case.
I wonder what the taper is and what the Inside Dia of taper is as it goes towards the base of the cartridge.? Starting .080 shorter with an FTX case the inside diameter has already increased somewhat.
The shortened FTX cases should definitely be .480 measurement at the neck/mouth but my concern is what the increased Inside Dia is of a standard length case ve a case that has .080 off the top.
I don't have any Hornady FTX cases to measure all of that and compare to the Starline cases.

SAAMI says the case measures .5039 outside diameter at the base just in front of the rim and .4813 outside diameter at the case mouth. I guess the internal taper would match the outside taper at points along the way, just have to figure out if case wall thickness increases ir stays the same throughout.

 

[leroy]

Will revisit and get some measurements after christmas.

 

[leroy]

Some measurements

 

[Jester896]

assuming that is a sized case
you should not be able to move the bullet with .006+ neck tension.
Show us the bullet measurement if you can.
It isn't a great way to measure case mouth thickness with calipers but it should be close enough for this...if you could get that too.

 

[leroy]

It is sized case

 

[Jester896]

bullet should measure .458 unless you are measuring a grove

 

[bullethead]

bullet should measure .458 unless you are measuring a grove

Yep.
45acp, 450 Bushmaster use .451/.452 45cal bullets.
45/70 uses .458 45cal bullets.

 

[Dub]

Yep.
45acp, 450 Bushmaster use .451/.452 45cal bullets.
45/70 uses .458 45cal bullets.

Wow.....for some reason I'd never looked far enough into the 450 Bushmaster to notice this difference.

 

[Wire Nut]

bullet should measure .458 unless you are measuring a grove

WINNER!! Wrong pill

 

[Jester896]

i didn't win
I hate that the OP got .451 bullets in the .458 box he showed us

 

[leroy]

So 10 bullets out of 2 boxes measure same .449, but i picked up a 6.5 .264 bullet and it measured .256 so evidently the calipers are that far off? Says they are zeroing out

 

[Dub]

So 10 bullets out of 2 boxes measure same .449, but i picked up a 6.5 .264 bullet and it measured .256 so evidently the calipers are that far off? Says they are zeroing out

This is the exact reason why a pair of mine found themselves in the trash can not too long ago.

They were as precise as a Guatemalan space shuttle.


There are some things that I will simply pay what it costs to get a reliable & trustworthy result.
Reloading calipers being a good example.

In my case, I went with a simple Mitutoyo dial and another for back up because two is one and one is none.....
(20% off each set on top of sale price at Zoro.com)

Not saying that there aren't good digital models....simply saying that my particular pair were inconsistent junk.

 

[Jester896]

do any of the other 75% of the bullets move in the case?

 

[leroy]

do any of the other 75% of the bullets move in the case?

I only loaded like 4 and they all moved

 

[Jester896]

i would send both of the boxes back where they came from if they measured under .458 and were an item #30629 box.

 

[leroy]

Bad caliper, new measurements