Atheists and ghosts?

[Artfuldodger]

I’m a believer. I believe just like there was instances of demon possession in Jesus’s day, there still is today

Do you believe angels are present on the earth? My sister who is Christian doesn't. She doesn't believe in anything pertaining to ghost, spirits, or angels on the earth except God and Satan. Maybe all paranormal activity ended at Cross or at the Pentecost or something.

 

[dirtnap]

Do you believe angels are present on the earth? My sister who is Christian doesn't. She doesn't believe in anything pertaining to ghost, spirits, or angels on the earth except God and Satan. Maybe all paranormal activity ended at Cross or at the Pentecost or something.

I do believe angels are present, but like I said earlier, how much they have the ability to be in the physical realm, i don’t know

 

[WaltL1]

I can remember when the Holy Ghost became the Holy Spirit. Meaning God's third persona is his spirit, not the ghost of a dead person.
Which makes me wonder if the man part of Jesus had a ghost when he physically died. Then did that ghost re-inter his body at resurrection?

Off topic, but maybe related to the various beliefs.

the Holy Ghost became the Holy Spirit.

Found this. (no clue if its completely accurate or not)
https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-Ghost.html

 

[NCHillbilly]

I am not a practicing Christian, but I wouldn't describe myself as an atheist. Until I see something that convinces me otherwise, I have absolutely no belief in ghosts, demons, angels, or deities as described in the literature in most mainstream organized religions. I do believe there is likely some kind of higher power/energy out there that can be felt at times, but I doubt if it's understandable. Spirits of some sort may be possible, I don't know, but I have never seen any reason to believe they do. There are many things that we don't understand.

 

[Bobby Linton]

If an ant tried it's best to understand a human, I can only imagine we would appear to be supernatural. I will continue with the assumption that my inability to explain an experience or observation is in no way proof of the supernatural. Our minds may be too limited to ever fully comprehend the true nature of reality. For example mathematics proves there is no limit to theoretical dimensions in space. You dont have to stop at three, you can have a fourth dimension and fifth and so on. This isn't just theoretical, multiple dimensions are used to make real world calculations now, but our brain has no compasity to visualize an object with more than three dimensions. Its literally beyond the limits of our understanding. Still doesn't mean additional dimensions aren't real or that they are supernatural.

 

[ambush80]

If an ant tried it's best to understand a human, I can only imagine we would appear to be supernatural. I will continue with the assumption that my inability to explain an experience or observation is in no way proof of the supernatural. Our minds may be too limited to ever fully comprehend the true nature of reality. For example mathematics proves there is no limit to theoretical dimensions in space. You dont have to stop at three, you can have a fourth dimension and fifth and so on. This isn't just theoretical, multiple dimensions are used to make real world calculations now, but our brain has no compasity to visualize an object with more than three dimensions. Its literally beyond the limits of our understanding. Still doesn't mean additional dimensions aren't real or that they are supernatural.

I'm guessing an ant is incapable of that kind of analysis but I get what you're saying. I imagine one day it might be possible to "dial down " our consciousness to the level of any animal we like. We would just "turn off" all the functions that are specific to us. That might be interesting to know what it feels like to operate only on instinct. I wonder how good our memory would be of that experience. It might only remain as a weird feeling.

I sometimes wonder if the intellectual impulses that fuel ideas like God and the supernatural might be latent properties of our minds that developed when we were less complex organisms. Maybe that's why most people's sense of the supernatural seem to be based on feelings.

 

[660griz]

No, I don't believe in ghosts. Growing up, I would hear tales of places that were haunted down around my neck of the woods. Probably similar stories everywhere. I would go there TRYING to see a ghost. Nothing.

 

[j_seph]

Perfectly still day, not an ounce of a breeze. A mother stands on a porch, not moving as the porch swing starts to slightly rock an shuffle back and forth in a familiar pattern. The mother is alone, not even close enough to touch the swing. She videos this happening, without there being an explanation for it. The pattern the porch swing is moving is the same as it would be when her son would sit there. For a moment this grieving mother had some peace, whether it was a ghost, or a spirit, it is unexplained. This is one reason we as believers believe. These unexplained events that happen just on time.

Yes I watched the video, and wish I could share it but it is personal to her not for public media.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I'm guessing an ant is incapable of that kind of analysis but I get what you're saying. I imagine one day it might be possible to "dial down " our consciousness to the level of any animal we like. We would just "turn off" all the functions that are specific to us. That might be interesting to know what it feels like to operate only on instinct. I wonder how good our memory would be of that experience. It might only remain as a weird feeling.

I sometimes wonder if the intellectual impulses that fuel ideas like God and the supernatural might be latent properties of our minds that developed when we were less complex organisms. Maybe that's why most people's sense of the supernatural seem to be based on feelings.

Have you ever read about the bicameral mind theory? Pretty interesting stuff, and it explins some things.

 

[WaltL1]

Perfectly still day, not an ounce of a breeze. A mother stands on a porch, not moving as the porch swing starts to slightly rock an shuffle back and forth in a familiar pattern. The mother is alone, not even close enough to touch the swing. She videos this happening, without there being an explanation for it. The pattern the porch swing is moving is the same as it would be when her son would sit there. For a moment this grieving mother had some peace, whether it was a ghost, or a spirit, it is unexplained. This is one reason we as believers believe. These unexplained events that happen just on time.

Yes I watched the video, and wish I could share it but it is personal to her not for public media.

I'll go ahead and take that story as being 100% true.

This is one reason we as believers believe. These unexplained events that happen just on time.

So the event is unexplained yet believers believe they know who/what god is responsible for the unexplainable event.
I have trouble buying that.

 

[PopPop]

I believe I saw my Grandfathers Ghost, shortly after he committed suicide. I did not know at the time that he took his own life. It was a frightening experience for a 7 year old.
I also am convinced that closed minds handicap ones ability to perceive all that there is. If proof is required as a precursor, so much would have never been learned. I have a scientific mind but am keenly aware, always observing as much as I can. I am just smart enough to know that I can not know what many claim with an absolute certainty.

 

[j_seph]

I'll go ahead and take that story as being 100% true.

So the event is unexplained yet believers believe they know who/what god is responsible for the unexplainable event.
I have trouble buying that.

Price was paid on Calvary, you don't have to buy anything.
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[bullethead]

Perfectly still day, not an ounce of a breeze. A mother stands on a porch, not moving as the porch swing starts to slightly rock an shuffle back and forth in a familiar pattern. The mother is alone, not even close enough to touch the swing. She videos this happening, without there being an explanation for it. The pattern the porch swing is moving is the same as it would be when her son would sit there. For a moment this grieving mother had some peace, whether it was a ghost, or a spirit, it is unexplained. This is one reason we as believers believe. These unexplained events that happen just on time.

Yes I watched the video, and wish I could share it but it is personal to her not for public media.

I can understand unexplained.
I wonder though, are there rules for the spirits and ghosts? Do they break those rules?

I ask myself a lot, if I was a ghost/spirit and could "do" things in the non spirit realm, would I do cheap parlor tricks?
If I could make foot steps, why not tap out morse code so there is no doubt?
If I could move things, why not write out who I am on a foggy bathroom mirror or dusty shelf right there in front of witnesses so there is an explanation?
If human mediums can talk to the dead, why not as a dead person BE SPECIFIC ? If I can convey that I am a fatherly figure and my name begins with an M, or P or something....why not say ,Hey my name is "....." and tell my son/wife/whoever this "......."?
And if I am a Son and could sit on a swing and make that swing move in the exact same pattern as I did when alive, why wouldn't I go over 4 more feet and give Mom a hug that she could feel?

 

[j_seph]

I can understand unexplained.
I wonder though, are there rules for the spirits and ghosts? Do they break those rules?

I ask myself a lot, if I was a ghost/spirit and could "do" things in the non spirit realm, would I do cheap parlor tricks?
If I could make foot steps, why not tap out morse code so there is no doubt?
If I could move things, why not write out who I am on a foggy bathroom mirror or dusty shelf right there in front of witnesses so there is an explanation?
If human mediums can talk to the dead, why not as a dead person BE SPECIFIC ? If I can convey that I am a fatherly figure and my name begins with an M, or P or something....why not say ,Hey my name is "....." and tell my son/wife/whoever this "......."?
And if I am a Son and could sit on a swing and make that swing move in the exact same pattern as I did when alive, why wouldn't I go over 4 more feet and give Mom a hug that she could feel?

I do not know if it was were or could have been her son or just a way for God to bring a moment of comfort to her that he was okay and that it was going to be okay.

 

[bullethead]

I do not know if it was were or could have been her son or just a way for God to bring a moment of comfort to her that he was okay and that it was going to be okay.

True, and using that logic it could have been because of dozens if not hundreds if not thousands of different possibilities.

 

[WaltL1]

I believe I saw my Grandfathers Ghost, shortly after he committed suicide. I did not know at the time that he took his own life. It was a frightening experience for a 7 year old.
I also am convinced that closed minds handicap ones ability to perceive all that there is. If proof is required as a precursor, so much would have never been learned. I have a scientific mind but am keenly aware, always observing as much as I can. I am just smart enough to know that I can not know what many claim with an absolute certainty.

I also am convinced that closed minds handicap ones ability to perceive all that there is.

That ^ makes sense to me. "We cant see what we don't want to see".
But I also think the flip side is undeniably accurate too -
"We see what we want to see".
I think, kind of in a nutshell, thats why AAs require "proof".
If we are denying it because we cant see it because that we dont want to.... the proof will expose that. If something is in fact "true"... it can be proven regardless if we cant see it or not.
If someone else is telling me that in fact it is true.... but they cant prove it..... odds just went way up that they are on the "We see what we want to see" side of the album.

 

[WaltL1]

Price was paid on Calvary, you don't have to buy anything.
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" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sorry j_seph, I'll take you word/their word on the unexplainable event, and I have no doubt it was exactly that - unexplainable.
I don't think the video addresses how one could logically know that a god and specifically their god or any god at all for that matter could be responsible for it.

 

[PopPop]

That ^ makes sense to me. "We cant see what we don't want to see".
But I also think the flip side is undeniably accurate too -
"We see what we want to see".
I think, kind of in a nutshell, thats why AAs require "proof".
If we are denying it because we cant see it because that we dont want to.... the proof will expose that. If something is in fact "true"... it can be proven regardless if we cant see it or not.
If someone else is telling me that in fact it is true.... but they cant prove it..... odds just went way up that they are on the "We see what we want to see" side of the album.

We do see what we want to see. That can also make it hard to see. My Sister lives in an enclave of upper middle class, successful people. She seldom ventures outside, except for vacation/ travel. She can not fathom how dysfunctional society is just minutes away from what she can see.
Again, I think disproving/proving “God” or ghost or angels is ambitious at the minimum.

 

[WaltL1]

I do not know if it was were or could have been her son or just a way for God to bring a moment of comfort to her that he was okay and that it was going to be okay.

Could have been God, could have been a ghost that had nothing to do with God or any god, could have been a lost spirit that was taking a break could have been this could have been that could have been anything we want to imagine or believe.

 

[ambush80]

Have you ever read about the bicameral mind theory? Pretty interesting stuff, and it explins some things.

No. I'll look into it.