Baptism: The third rail

[Madman]

i guess that Welder and I are not part of the "worldwide" church then.
.

I agree

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I agree

Please define "worldwide church"

 

[Madman]

Please define "worldwide church"

All of the churches who follow the original biblical teaching and tradition of apostolic succession, real presence of Christ in eucharist, etc. . That would be the Orthodox church, the Roman Catholics, the Anglicans, the Coptics.

 

[Madman]

I don't believe the reformation was a bad thing.

I do. It did nothing but made people believe Scripture is open to private interpretation.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I do. It did nothing but made people believe Scripture is open to private interpretation.

It brought the living word to more people than at any time in history, and in a language that they understood. It is amazing to me that people thought that murdering someone that wanted to spread the gospel was a good thing.

Reformers were slaughtered by the thousands by the 'worldwide church', because they didn't toe the line on teachings of the 'worldwide church'.

 

[Madman]

It brought the living word to more people than at any time in history, and in a language that they understood. It is amazing to me that people thought that murdering someone that wanted to spread the gospel was a good thing.

Reformers were slaughtered by the thousands by the 'worldwide church', because they didn't toe the line on teachings of the 'worldwide church'.

Back to the history books pappy. The anglicans and Catholics took the gospel to the world. The entire eastern hemisphere, Japan and China by the catholics. India, Africa, south America, the islands by the Anglicans.

Dont throw too many stones, the protestants killed as many as the Catholics. Calvin traveled with his own executioner.

Everyone claims to know so much about why the protestant reformation occurred, but no one can tell you why they not only broke from the church in the west, the roman catholic church, but they broke from the rest of the church, that being the anglicans the coptic and the orthodox.

I am going to bow out of this portion of the conversation, the thread was on baptism and some of ya'll are about to start getting hurt feelings because you believe revisionist history.
Somebody start a new thread and I may check in on that one.

 

[welderguy]

Why would a so-called "world wide church" have so many different sects? (Catholic, Anglican, Coptic, Orthodox)
Sounds like a house divided against itself to me. I want no part of that. Just the description, "world wide church" seems to me like something to run from.

 

[Madman]

Why would a so-called "world wide church" have so many different sects? (Catholic, Anglican, Coptic, Orthodox)
Sounds like a house divided against itself to me. I want no part of that. Just the description, "world wide church" seems to me like something to run from.

As I said move that question to another thread please and I'll jump in.

Back to baptism. What is baptism of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Madman]

What is baptism with fire?

 

[Israel]

What is baptism with fire?

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


Is this not what each believer experiences?

The operation of this in themselves?

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The believer finding himself a thing preserved as things...being divided out, to be cast off, discarded...assigned to the burning...while he himself is that thing preserved.

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live yet not I but Christ lives within me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.


The man is finding all "of himself" going...being exposed to him by light (who is Christ) for righteous agreement as useless, counter...yet...he is aware that even though all of himself is dead... (as a dead thing knows it can work no righteousness)...he yet holds (mysteriously) a self identity...but not of "old self"...a self sustained in conjunction with Jesus Christ...which is the new man.

All these things that have been attached to us for self identity, that are being removed by the One to whom living sacrifices are presented, are to God's glory and our preservation.

That only what is of Jesus Christ remain.
Who is Himself...salvation.

The sinners in Zion are afraid; Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites: “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?”


Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.


Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[Madman]

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


Is this not what each believer experiences?

The operation of this in themselves?

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The believer finding himself a thing preserved as things...being divided out, to be cast off, discarded...assigned to the burning...while he himself is that thing preserved.

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live yet not I but Christ lives within me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.


The man is finding all "of himself" going...being exposed to him by light (who is Christ) for righteous agreement as useless, counter...yet...he is aware that even though all of himself is dead... (as a dead thing knows it can work no righteousness)...he yet holds (mysteriously) a self identity...but not of "old self"...a self sustained in conjunction with Jesus Christ...which is the new man.

All these things that have been attached to us for self identity, that are being removed by the One to whom living sacrifices are presented, are to God's glory and our preservation.

That only what is of Jesus Christ remain.
Who is Himself...salvation.

The sinners in Zion are afraid; Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites: “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?”


Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.


Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.

Yes The baptism of judgement.
Interesting question as to where and when that happens.

 

[Israel]

Yes The baptism of judgement.
Interesting question as to where and when that happens.

I believe...for the believer...the "when" is always now.

Enduring, by the grace of God and the power of Christ's indestructible life, the right judgment of God upon all of the "old" creation, wherein death reigned by law. Being discovered by His light shed in a dark place all of my transactional ways, my "legal" ways of relating. (If my wife were to as easily see what the Lord already does in such great mercy...of how...I often weigh in the "quid pro quo" of things...yes, I am a wretch)

But my "belief" about it is of no consequence, for I dare not tempt God in any fashion as though I have in any way, or by any means, concluded to myself any surpassing or grain of knowledge of it...the righteous judgment of God.

Odd it sounds. But truer yet, to me. And for me, safer. I am more inclined to consider I am like a child that has skinned his knee in consequence to learning to ride a bicycle...I scream to the heaven's "I am dying" as I behold the smallest collection of my own blood fill the scrape. O! how we are so won to imagining we have suffered anything in and/or for the Lord. Or in the seeking to know His ways! Me, anyway.

I am surely the one to whom, and for whom this is written:

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Yet, I still believe it. A training. A discipling in endurance. Bearing contradictions against ourselves. Like those who have been drafted into school, but being told...you can study and learn of Christ (by learning His life as yours)...you can be "made ready"...but know this...the exam is coming for all...regardless of self claim, or "belief" there is an indulgent exemption...Christ has been given...and shown able to bear all judgment for sin by His resurrection. He is all and only what abides and stands.

There is coming for all the day of the fullness of the revelation of Jesus Christ. We are encouraged to long for to its hastening. We live where these things are undeniably true...regardless of our present disposition toward them (Now, no chastening seemeth joyous...but grievous...)


Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
Amos


But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Paul



Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Peter


Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Jesus Christ

All of the same Spirit.

Only God knows how a man lives in longing for what will appear terrible, how a man can be made ready for what he can never expect but knows; and is told is coming at the very hour of his not expecting.

I am believing it [they] (this seeming symphony of apparent contradictions), are resolved only in One place...Jesus Christ...and how their truth in Him, works to turn a man to Him...alone as source of "made ready"; able to bear the Day of our God, and even shine. (As is testified by His resurrection)

What is all of contradicted in and by these only apparent contradictions is what must be contradicted...my own self. A self that can do...nothing. A self that may even think it knows what that means.

 

[barryl]

Been watching this conversation for a while, would like to ask Madman a couple of questions. Have you been "Spiritually" circumcised per (Col. 2: 11-13) and secondly, you will notice that the speaker in (Acts 15: 7-11) is your first "Pope", Peter(?) Any scriptures mentioned, KJ 1611 AV.

 

[Madman]

Been watching this conversation for a while, would like to ask Madman a couple of questions. Have you been "Spiritually" circumcised per (Col. 2: 11-13) and secondly, you will notice that the speaker in (Acts 15: 7-11) is your first "Pope", Peter(?) Any scriptures mentioned, KJ 1611 AV.

I don't have a pope I am not Roman Catholic but it appears you have a point to be made, what is it? I assume you are talking about James "judging" in the light of the prophet Amos.

 

[Madman]

Been watching this conversation for a while, would like to ask Madman a couple of questions. Have you been "Spiritually" circumcised per (Col. 2: 11-13)

Are you asking if I have been made alive Christ?

 

[Madman]

Been watching this conversation for a while, would like to ask Madman a couple of questions. Have you been "Spiritually" circumcised per (Col. 2: 11-13) and secondly, you will notice that the speaker in (Acts 15: 7-11) is your first "Pope", Peter(?) Any scriptures mentioned, KJ 1611 AV.

Barryl, what is the Methodist belief of baptism?