Bobby Vanderburg
Member
All dead atheist believe in God.
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Deconversion
- Thread starter atlashunter
- Start date
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
How would anyone know?
atlashunter
Senior Member
Yep, and his name is FSM...
I'm going to pray for all those that choose to reject Jesus. Come up with all the cute videos, books and literature that you can. You work so hard to do something that is impossible. You can't prove that Jesus is not the Savior. The Bible can. Try to refute all the fulfilled prophecies. No day is promised to us. Any of us can be gone tomorrow. I shudder to think of how much comfort a person is going to get from YouTube videos and other so called information in Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----. Truth is that we are all sinners and need a Savior and forgiveness. God wants us to come to Him. He wants to forgive is. He wants us to have a fulfilled life. Stop this foolishness and repent. You cannot afford to do otherwise. Please, read the Bible and ask God to reveal His will to you.
atlashunter
Senior Member
respro, pray for yourself that your mind not continue being governed by fear. Until you can manage to reach that point you're not going to understand how others can live free of that fear. It's a shame that you have been brought to believe people will burn forever for not believing what you believe.
Can only speak for myself but I'm pretty sure many here have done the same- I have read the Bible, been to church, even been on mission trips, and there is much to commend the community and fellowship of many congregations. But having reviewed the evidence, there is no way I can conclude that there is an omnipotent god who cares about me and it has chosen the Bible as the medium through which my eternal well being is to be moderated.
I'm sitting here having breakfast by myself. God has an open invitation to stop by if he/she/it really does care. But the proposition that a loving god endowed us with intelligence and then would condemn us to he11 for using it seems less likely than at least a dozen other possibilities (and no I'm not persuaded by Pascal's wager).
Six million dollar ham
Banned
Save it.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Guys I have to say that on this one he is right. I agree 100% that The Bible can prove that Jesus is not the Savior.
atlashunter
Senior Member
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
For those that believe in the Bible, you might be right. For those that have read the Bible and do not think it is any source for enlightenment or spiritual truth, then you will have to come up with some other source.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
When I die all I can hope for is for my family and friends to pass on stories of good memories with me. I hope that I made a positive impact in their lives. If I live on, it will be through them.
Good? What are the guidelines for good?
Good? What are the guidelines for good?
Yes.
atlashunter
Senior Member
Bump for j_seph who wanted my deconversion story.
I didn't really go into detail in the original post but that video series always comes to mind because there were many similarities for me. I was raised in Assembly of God and later Pentecostal and evangelical churches. My father, grandfather, and great grandfather were all pastors in the Assembly of God. My great grandfather helped get the Assembly of God established in New Mexico many years ago. Like the guy in that video series I can also remember participating in Royal Rangers from a very young age although it was more sporadic for me. The first time I gave my life to Jesus I was about 5 and it was an alter call in my grandfathers church. I remember him leading me in the sinners prayer and asking Jesus into my heart. I was very young but sincere and took it seriously. As I got older and learned more I did have doubts about some things like the story of Noah's ark but I still believed. Going into my teen years more questions came up. Like what happened to all the people who lived and died in the last 2,000 years that never heard the gospel? Without Jesus they are doomed and Jesus told us to go out and make disciples and spread the gospel so people could be saved. Didn't seem like those people got a fair shake. I remember asking that question when I was about 14 in a bible study while visiting my grandfather. Wasn't trying to be a facetious teenager. Just seemed like a good question to me. Around 14 or 15 I visited my dad one summer. My parents had long since divorced. My dad was attending Christ for the Nations in Dallas. I went through the same thing as the guy in this video of rededicating myself as a christian at a service there. There was a lot going on there throughout that summer and I really got into it heavy. My faith was probably at it's strongest point ever and I did have some experiences there that even further convinced me. That stuck with me for many years even after doubts from other sources became stronger.
The video that shows the belief in god as having many different components held true for me and they were pretty much the same for me. Prayer, morality, other testimonies, creation, the bible, etc. As an adult I never really was into church very heavy. I didn't live a christian life so I didn't consider myself a christian but I did still believe the bible was god's word.
How does one's mind change on matters of this nature? I think it's usually a gradual process. At least it was for me. Over time as I learned more and thought more about those different pillars supporting my belief in god they one by one broke down. The effectiveness of prayer, the historicity of the bible, the morality of the assertions made by christianity, and so on. They just didn't hold up under scrutiny. And as I talked about earlier in this thread even from childhood I wanted to know what was true. I was open to the possibility that I was wrong. That the things I was taught were wrong. I understand why people want to believe. I understand how it can be comforting at times. But for me what has always mattered most was whether or not it was true. I'd rather face an uncomfortable reality head on and conform my mind to it than cling to a delusion because it makes me feel better. That's just a healthier way to go through life in my opinion.
I also remember going from believer to doubter to agnostic and finally to atheist. Actually we are all agnostics. Some just don't have the honesty to admit it. Once I realized that and once I got over the fear of burning forever I was able to accept it and take that next step to acknowledging I no longer believed.
I didn't really go into detail in the original post but that video series always comes to mind because there were many similarities for me. I was raised in Assembly of God and later Pentecostal and evangelical churches. My father, grandfather, and great grandfather were all pastors in the Assembly of God. My great grandfather helped get the Assembly of God established in New Mexico many years ago. Like the guy in that video series I can also remember participating in Royal Rangers from a very young age although it was more sporadic for me. The first time I gave my life to Jesus I was about 5 and it was an alter call in my grandfathers church. I remember him leading me in the sinners prayer and asking Jesus into my heart. I was very young but sincere and took it seriously. As I got older and learned more I did have doubts about some things like the story of Noah's ark but I still believed. Going into my teen years more questions came up. Like what happened to all the people who lived and died in the last 2,000 years that never heard the gospel? Without Jesus they are doomed and Jesus told us to go out and make disciples and spread the gospel so people could be saved. Didn't seem like those people got a fair shake. I remember asking that question when I was about 14 in a bible study while visiting my grandfather. Wasn't trying to be a facetious teenager. Just seemed like a good question to me. Around 14 or 15 I visited my dad one summer. My parents had long since divorced. My dad was attending Christ for the Nations in Dallas. I went through the same thing as the guy in this video of rededicating myself as a christian at a service there. There was a lot going on there throughout that summer and I really got into it heavy. My faith was probably at it's strongest point ever and I did have some experiences there that even further convinced me. That stuck with me for many years even after doubts from other sources became stronger.
The video that shows the belief in god as having many different components held true for me and they were pretty much the same for me. Prayer, morality, other testimonies, creation, the bible, etc. As an adult I never really was into church very heavy. I didn't live a christian life so I didn't consider myself a christian but I did still believe the bible was god's word.
How does one's mind change on matters of this nature? I think it's usually a gradual process. At least it was for me. Over time as I learned more and thought more about those different pillars supporting my belief in god they one by one broke down. The effectiveness of prayer, the historicity of the bible, the morality of the assertions made by christianity, and so on. They just didn't hold up under scrutiny. And as I talked about earlier in this thread even from childhood I wanted to know what was true. I was open to the possibility that I was wrong. That the things I was taught were wrong. I understand why people want to believe. I understand how it can be comforting at times. But for me what has always mattered most was whether or not it was true. I'd rather face an uncomfortable reality head on and conform my mind to it than cling to a delusion because it makes me feel better. That's just a healthier way to go through life in my opinion.
I also remember going from believer to doubter to agnostic and finally to atheist. Actually we are all agnostics. Some just don't have the honesty to admit it. Once I realized that and once I got over the fear of burning forever I was able to accept it and take that next step to acknowledging I no longer believed.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Many very similar thoughts as I had along the way.
Gradual deconversion is accurate. The more I wanted to know about "my" religion the less I found it to be as advertised on the surface. I wanted to know all that I could about my saviour. I know too much now.
atlashunter
Senior Member
I watched that video series again last night. I remember asking many of the same questions. If truth and god are at odds which do you choose? Not even saying they were at that time but just asking the question "if". For me the answer was a no brainer. God is subject to truth and not the other way around. That allowed me to really be open to questioning. The part where he ended up with a long list of problems with his faith that he had to do mental gymnastics to explain but that were easily explained if you allowed for the possibility god didn't exist was also similar for me. Once you seriously allow for that possibility it's like a shock to the mind. Things fall into place and make sense that didn't before. It can also evoke an emotional response although I didn't go through what he did in that regard.
The other part that made a lot of sense to me that I had forgot about was where he talks about simulacrum.
WaltL1
Senior Member
Same here.
Maybe a bit different for me though as it was sort of a 2 stage deconversion. Short version -
First stage was the rejection of Christianity/organized religion. That was the easier part. A study of history took care of that.
But still believed in "God".
Second stage was the realization, or maybe acceptance is a better word, that everything I thought I knew about God came from organized religion.
That started the quest to learn about or confirm this god's existence outside the parameters of organized religion. I figured surely "God" could be found outside organized religion.
Nuthin, nada, zilch, zero.
So here I sit. I label myself as Agnostic as I'm open to the possibility of a god but I'm not sure if there is a whole lot of difference between Agnostic or Atheist other than a "technicality".
ambush80
Senior Member
You don't believe in unicorns because there's no proof of them. You might maintain that they could exist in some far away galaxy, but if someone asks you if you believe in unicorns and you answer "no" then you are an A-unicornist.
