All this talk in recent months about decreasing pattern density and effectiveness in turkey loads is reversing a long term trend, and is quite interesting.
Since the beginning of modern spring gobbler hunting, the goal of ammo manufacturers and turkey choke manufacturers has been to come up with better turkey loads and chokes to give you a denser pattern of better penetrating shot at extended ranges.
The serious old timer hunters used to shoot anything from 7-1/2s to 2s, and didn't have a whole lot of options. If we are to believe the accounts of folks like Charlie Elliott, they used to do things like try 50 yd shots with #2s and full chokes, and didn't hesitate shooting at flying birds. Anything smaller than a 12 gauge was not a turkey gun, for good reason. Ammo and choke was the limiting factor for them.
The NWTF even started up their still target championships with one of the stated goals being the development of better ammunition and chokes for turkey hunting.
Guys who today shoot #6 or #4 lead, for example, originally chose that load because, at one time, they determined that it was the most effective load to use on turkeys with a particular gun.
But with the 12g/cc hevishot, HD, etc, and now the 15g/cc heavyweight and the 18g/cc shot that has been developed in recent years, those loads that once were determined "best" are now well down towards the back of the pack in terms of pattern integrity, penetration, and overall turkey load effectiveness in any measurable terms. Of course, there is always the sentimental attachment to those older loads and guns etc that is important for some.
But sentimentality aside, there is no serious person that will argue that #6 or #4 lead is the best load available to them today. Yet folks are proposing those kinds of patterns as being ideal, in recent months.
That brings us to discussions like this which will continue, I'm sure.
I don't think anyone who is familiar with TSS would advise shot that large for turkeys, unless state laws prohibit anything smaller.
It would be like shooting lead BBs in terms of penetration, though you'd have a lot more pellets in the pattern. It might make a good body shooting load.
But it would be about like driving a Ferrari, and having a governor installed to keep you from going over 45 mph. It'll get you where you want to go, but is quite a waste.
I'm saying that #9 TSS is more than enough for turkeys.
But if one is seeking to handicap themselves with their turkey loads by limiting their 10" circle hits at 40 yds, there are a lot of ways to do it.
One way to handicap down to that 10" count would be, instead of shooting a hard kicking 12 ga. 2 oz. load of lead #4s, one could shoot a 3/4 oz. load (in whatever gauge) of TSS 9s to achieve the same result.
For example, here's my 3/4 oz. .410 load pattern at 40 yds. I think this is about what you are looking for in the 100 - 125 hit range, and you could tote a lighter gun and would have very shooter friendly recoil that even a little kid could handle with no problem.
It would be difficult to get this kind of 3/4 oz. 40 yd pattern with adequate penetration, with something besides TSS.
Another way to handicap yourself down to 100-125 hits in the 10" circle at 40 yds would be to open up your choke.
The ONLY reason for turkey chokes is to increase pattern density and thus maximize the range of the ammo. That's why they were/are developed. No other reason. Just range. So, why bother with a lot of choke if one wants to limit the ammo and range?
You could shoot a skeet or cylinder choke with a TSS load, and have a 3 to 4 foot killing pattern at 40 yds. That might be one way to eliminate those misses close in we read about every year, while still giving you "good enough" at 40 yds. And that would be very difficult to do with something besides TSS.
And as I've pointed out, with TSS, you can have your cake and eat it to with the range thing. (refer back to my "CM" load comments.) That would be much more difficult with less dense shot.
Since the beginning of modern spring gobbler hunting, the goal of ammo manufacturers and turkey choke manufacturers has been to come up with better turkey loads and chokes to give you a denser pattern of better penetrating shot at extended ranges.
The serious old timer hunters used to shoot anything from 7-1/2s to 2s, and didn't have a whole lot of options. If we are to believe the accounts of folks like Charlie Elliott, they used to do things like try 50 yd shots with #2s and full chokes, and didn't hesitate shooting at flying birds. Anything smaller than a 12 gauge was not a turkey gun, for good reason. Ammo and choke was the limiting factor for them.
The NWTF even started up their still target championships with one of the stated goals being the development of better ammunition and chokes for turkey hunting.
Guys who today shoot #6 or #4 lead, for example, originally chose that load because, at one time, they determined that it was the most effective load to use on turkeys with a particular gun.
But with the 12g/cc hevishot, HD, etc, and now the 15g/cc heavyweight and the 18g/cc shot that has been developed in recent years, those loads that once were determined "best" are now well down towards the back of the pack in terms of pattern integrity, penetration, and overall turkey load effectiveness in any measurable terms. Of course, there is always the sentimental attachment to those older loads and guns etc that is important for some.
But sentimentality aside, there is no serious person that will argue that #6 or #4 lead is the best load available to them today. Yet folks are proposing those kinds of patterns as being ideal, in recent months.
That brings us to discussions like this which will continue, I'm sure.
I don't think anyone who is familiar with TSS would advise shot that large for turkeys, unless state laws prohibit anything smaller.
It would be like shooting lead BBs in terms of penetration, though you'd have a lot more pellets in the pattern. It might make a good body shooting load.
But it would be about like driving a Ferrari, and having a governor installed to keep you from going over 45 mph. It'll get you where you want to go, but is quite a waste.
I'm saying that #9 TSS is more than enough for turkeys.
But if one is seeking to handicap themselves with their turkey loads by limiting their 10" circle hits at 40 yds, there are a lot of ways to do it.
One way to handicap down to that 10" count would be, instead of shooting a hard kicking 12 ga. 2 oz. load of lead #4s, one could shoot a 3/4 oz. load (in whatever gauge) of TSS 9s to achieve the same result.
For example, here's my 3/4 oz. .410 load pattern at 40 yds. I think this is about what you are looking for in the 100 - 125 hit range, and you could tote a lighter gun and would have very shooter friendly recoil that even a little kid could handle with no problem.
It would be difficult to get this kind of 3/4 oz. 40 yd pattern with adequate penetration, with something besides TSS.
Another way to handicap yourself down to 100-125 hits in the 10" circle at 40 yds would be to open up your choke.
The ONLY reason for turkey chokes is to increase pattern density and thus maximize the range of the ammo. That's why they were/are developed. No other reason. Just range. So, why bother with a lot of choke if one wants to limit the ammo and range?
You could shoot a skeet or cylinder choke with a TSS load, and have a 3 to 4 foot killing pattern at 40 yds. That might be one way to eliminate those misses close in we read about every year, while still giving you "good enough" at 40 yds. And that would be very difficult to do with something besides TSS.
And as I've pointed out, with TSS, you can have your cake and eat it to with the range thing. (refer back to my "CM" load comments.) That would be much more difficult with less dense shot.
