God’s Original Plan

[BanjoPicker]

If one can conceive of the wonderful conditions that would have been on the Earth today if man had not fallen and then transfer that idea to the New Earth he would have the whole plan of the Bible, as far as the future is concerned. The fall of man does not do away with God's original purpose. It has only postponed this purpose until the final restitution of all things. In other words, if man not fallen there would have been natural life forever. Children would have been born forever. Animals would have been born for man and utilized by him for his own good. There would have been no thorns and thistles or curse of any kind on the Earth as we know it at the present time. There would have been no suffering, pain, tears, failures, sin, death, or any of the present effects of man's rebellion. Certainly, every man can, conceive of these wonderful conditions on the Earth if man had sinned. These perfect and sinless conditions would have been eternal for as long as man remained true to God.

If one can conceive of eternal perfect conditions and natural eternal life of man, with children being born endlessly, if man had not sinned, he can, also conceive of the same thing in the New Earth, when the curse is removed, and natural man continues the original program of God forever, as would have come to pass if man had never fallen. What is there hard to understand about this glorious natural state in the New Earth since it is clear that this same condition would have continued forever if man had not fallen.

Even if man had remained true to God and had not fallen, He did not plan to resurrect men and give them heavenly bodies. Neither is God going to resurrect, change from natural to spiritual bodies, and make the future natural men spiritual and heavenly in body. The men who will not rebel with Satan at the end of the Millennium will continue on Earth forever as natural people. It is only the rebels at the end of the Millenium that will be destroyed from the Earth. By that time, it will, possible to live forever in natural bodies just as man could have done if he had never sinned, for the curse will be removed with all of its affects just as if man had never sinned. The men will live in natural bodies forever and carry out the original creative purpose in replenishing the Earth and continuing natural life on the Earth. During the present curse, God is getting through a refining process, and heavenly people out of the race to reign over all coming generations of natural people.

Besides all the Scriptures proving eternal generations of natural people, which are just as plain as they read, and mean just what they say, there are three passages speaking of a thousand generations, which is a Hebraism for perpetual generations (Deut. 7:9, 1 Chron. 16:15; Ps. 105:8). In Ps. 90:10 Moses speaks of our years as being from seventy to eighty. If the thousand generations were to be calculated on the basis, we should have continuance of the human race for 70,000 to 80,000 years. This would be about to conceive of as eternal generations. Then too, where in Scripture are we told that generations are to cease after this long period? The word generation (singular and plural) is used 213 times in the Bible and in every case except in Gen. 2:4, it is used of natural generations of men and their multiplying posterity in the Earth.

 

[Artfuldodger]

That reads like Jesus was plan B and that there was never any plan for the adoption of Gentiles as per Romans 11.

I read all three of those passage and it wasn't plain as day that they were related to eternal generations. They were promises to perpetual generations.
Maybe they are eternal, the more I think about it. Yet I don't think it means what you are trying to show. Those promises were revealed after the Fall.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

If one can conceive of the wonderful conditions that would have been on the Earth today if man had not fallen and then transfer that idea to the New Earth he would have the whole plan of the Bible, as far as the future is concerned. The fall of man does not do away with God's original purpose. It has only postponed this purpose until the final restitution of all things. In other words, if man not fallen there would have been natural life forever. Children would have been born forever. Animals would have been born for man and utilized by him for his own good. There would have been no thorns and thistles or curse of any kind on the Earth as we know it at the present time. There would have been no suffering, pain, tears, failures, sin, death, or any of the present effects of man's rebellion. Certainly, every man can, conceive of these wonderful conditions on the Earth if man had sinned. These perfect and sinless conditions would have been eternal for as long as man remained true to God.

If one can conceive of eternal perfect conditions and natural eternal life of man, with children being born endlessly, if man had not sinned, he can, also conceive of the same thing in the New Earth, when the curse is removed, and natural man continues the original program of God forever, as would have come to pass if man had never fallen. What is there hard to understand about this glorious natural state in the New Earth since it is clear that this same condition would have continued forever if man had not fallen.

Even if man had remained true to God and had not fallen, He did not plan to resurrect men and give them heavenly bodies. Neither is God going to resurrect, change from natural to spiritual bodies, and make the future natural men spiritual and heavenly in body. The men who will not rebel with Satan at the end of the Millennium will continue on Earth forever as natural people. It is only the rebels at the end of the Millenium that will be destroyed from the Earth. By that time, it will, possible to live forever in natural bodies just as man could have done if he had never sinned, for the curse will be removed with all of its affects just as if man had never sinned. The men will live in natural bodies forever and carry out the original creative purpose in replenishing the Earth and continuing natural life on the Earth. During the present curse, God is getting through a refining process, and heavenly people out of the race to reign over all coming generations of natural people.

Besides all the Scriptures proving eternal generations of natural people, which are just as plain as they read, and mean just what they say, there are three passages speaking of a thousand generations, which is a Hebraism for perpetual generations (Deut. 7:9, 1 Chron. 16:15; Ps. 105:8).

I'll say this: you have some very "original" ideas. Not sure how scriptural they are, if at all, but they are original.

 

[BanjoPicker]

The reference in the following points are just as clear as those mention above and need no interpretation, although many of them have been postponed until the time of the repentance and restoration of the persons who failed after the promises were made. Nevertheless, none of these passages have been annulled, nor will they ever be.

In the Bible there are a number of eternal covenants with natural man and beasts.

Such could not possibly be true if both parties of the covenants were not eternal (Gen. 9:16; 17:7, 19; Exodus 31:16; Lev. 24:8; Num. 18:19; 2 Sam. 23:5; 1 Chron. 16:17; Ps. 105:10' 111:5, 9; Isa. 55:3; 61:8; Jer. 32:40; 50:4, 5; Ezek. 16:20; 37:26).

Eternal lands were promised to Abraham and hie natural posterity forever.

His natural seed must remain forever in order for this to be fulfilled (Gen. 13:15; 17:6-8; 49:4; Ex. 32:12, 13; Lev. 25:23, 30, 34; Deut. 4:40; Jn. 14:29; 2 Chron. 20:7; Isa. 60:21; Jer. 25:25; Lk. 1:32-35; Matt. 19:28).

The Scriptures abundantly prove that David's natural seed, his earthly throne and kingdom with its earthly subjects are all eternal and will be ruled by Christ forever.

(2 Sam. 7:11-17, 24-29; 22:51; 23:5; 1 Kings 2:45; 9:3-5; 1 Chron. 17:7-15, 22-27; 22:10; 28:4-9; 2 Chron. 13:5; 21:7; Ps. 89:3, 4, 35-37; 145:13; Isa. 9:6, 7; Ezek. 43:7-9; Dan. 2:44, 45; 7:13, 14, 18-27; Micah. 4:7; Lk. 1:32-35; Heb. 1:8; 12:28; Rev. 11:15; 22:5).

 

[BanjoPicker]

Planting and harvesting, cold and heat, summer and winter, and day and night will go on while the earth remains (Gen. 8:22; Ps. 104:5; Eccl. 1:4; Isa. 65:21-25; Micah 4:3, 4; Joel 2:18-3:21).

Certainly, glorified saints will not be the ones to plow, sow, reap, and enjoy the fruits of their labors, for they are the ruling class. It will be the natural people who go from the tribulation period into the Millennium and from the Millennium into the New Earth that will plant and harvest forever on the Earth. They will be the ones that will marry and have children forever and live a normal, natural life just as man would have done if he had not fallen. Thus, we must distinguish between the two classes of eternal people of Adam's race, the natural people who will be the subjects of the kingdom forever, and the spiritual, immortal, resurrected, heavenly, glorified saints of all ages before the Millennium who will be the rulers and heirs of the kingdom forever. The natural people will carry out God's original purpose on Earth just as man would have done if he had continued on the Earth forever without the fall and the present rebellion against God.

 

[BanjoPicker]

Many other eternal truths are mentioned in connection with natural man and his life on the eternal Earth,
which proves that there will be natural men and other creatures here forever and that natural life and conditions on Earth will be perpetual in a perfect state, just as it would have been if man had not fallen (Gen. 17:13; Ex. 12:14, 17, 24; 27; 20, 21; 28:26-43; 29:9; 30:8, 17-21; 31:16, 17; 40:15; Lev. 3:17; 6:12, 13, 18-23; 7:34-38; 10:9, 15; 6:29-34; 17:7; 23:14, 21; 24:2-9; Num. 10:8; 15:15; 18:8-11, 19-23; 19:10, 21; 1 Chron. 15:2; 23:13; 2 Chron. 2:4; 2 Kings 17:37; Ps. 125:1; Isa. 45:17; 51:6-11; 54:8; 55:13; 56:5; 60:15-20; Ezek. 46:14; Zech. 14:16-21).

 

[BanjoPicker]

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God does not predestinate any particular person to be saved or lost.
This is plainly taught in many passages which teach that every man is a free moral agent and is saved or lost by his own free choice in the matter of accepting or rejecting salvation through Jesus Christ (Jn. 3:14-16; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9; Rev. 22:17).
The doctrine of calling and election is entirely in the realm of man's power of free choice.

 

[BanjoPicker]

The glorified saints are to reign as "kings and priests" on Earth forever.

How could they be "priests" for forever without worshippers to minister unto? How could they be "kings" forever without a kingdom and subjects to reign over? They certainly will not reign over and minister unto themselves.

In all the passages in the above points the words "everlasting," "forever," "perpetual" are used.
The same words are used for the eternal existence of God, so if one is eternal the others must be also. We have no right to take such words to mean anything but what they say, unless such is plainly implied in the passages where they are found, or some statement is found elsewhere to the contrary. Any usage of such words in any passage other than that of an eternal sense is always made clear in the passage itself. When used dispensationally and in connection with eternal things they mean eternal in every case.

 

[gemcgrew]

God does not predestinate any particular person to be saved or lost.

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
They are His people... given to Him by the Father... before there ever was a piece of dirt.

"He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world"

"being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will"

The doctrine of calling and election is entirely in the realm of man's power of free choice.

Man has no freedom of choice, relative to God.

"The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:"

 

[BanjoPicker]

God gave recognition to His intention to have a perpetual race through the tree of life when He drove Adam from it (Gen. 3:24).

What purpose will trees of life have in the New Earth if it is not for the preservation of natural life? Eternal bodily life of glorified saints will not depend on such trees, for they have immortal bodies by virtue of the resurrection and transformation by the Spirit of God. If the above passages mean what they say, then they prove the perpetuity of the race as natural physical beings as would have been the case if man had not fallen. When death, the penalty for sin, is destroyed after the Millennium, because sin ceases to be, life will automatically go on through the medium of natural preservation the trees of life (Rev. 2:7, 17; 22:2).

 

[BanjoPicker]

The obvious question in view of the perpetual multiplying of the race is how can Earth hold so many coming generations?

1. This may be answered satisfactorily by the following suggestions:
The how, of many revealed parts of God's eternal plan is not clear. We are not asked to understand how certain things will be brought about. we are simply asked to believe what is plainly written. The how, of all of God's plan is in His hands. Is the God who created all things and foretold eternal plans now limited in His power to bring these things to pass? Nevertheless, the how of this question of over population, seems to be answered in Ps. 8; Isa. 40:29-31. In these passages common natural man was supposed to have power and dominion over all the works of God's hands. This would include all the planets. Christ came to restore man's dominion over all things (Heb. 2:7-10). It seems logical to believe that in the future restoration man will have power over, and access to the planets, which are a part of God's handwork. God could take care of all future generations, whenever necessary, by populating other planets.

 

[BanjoPicker]

2. After the restoration it will be possible for vast multitudes of people to live on Earth. Even now Japan about three-fifths of the arable land owned by small peasant proprietors who provide for their families on holdings of a small as one acre, some even less. How much greater will be the possibilities when the ground is free from the curse so that it will bring forth as before the curse.

Possibly a few figures in connection with the area of the Earth and the many people it should be capable of holding might be interesting at this point. It is said that the total area of the Earth is 196,950,000 square miles. There are now about 1,000,000 square miles of lake and river surface, not counting, of course, the area of the oceans. Granting that there will be no oceans in the New Earth, Let us suppose that 4,650,000 square miles will be necessary for the seas, rivers and lakes and that 2,250,000 square miles will be necessary fir the site of the New Jerusalem. That will leave 190,000,000 square miles of land for man. If one acre were given to one person there would be room for about 121,600,000,000 people on the Earth or about 119 billions of people more on Earth than are on the Earth at present. There are about two billion people on Earth now.

3. It may be stated further in connection with this subject that men will not multiply on Earth as fast after the restoration as before. It is clear from Gen. 3:16 that with the curse came the multiplication of conception. When the Earth and all therein are loosed from the curse a normal condition will also be restored along this line.

 

[BanjoPicker]

NEW CONDITIONS IN THE NEW EARTH (REV. 21:3-8)

The wonderful conditions of the Millennial kingdom will be carried on into the New Earth. All rebels will be confined to the lake of fire. Death, sin, sorrow, sickness and everything that entered the world through the curse will be removed (Rom. 8:18-25; Heb. 12:25-28; 1 Cor. 15:24-28). God, the Father, Himself comes down with the New Jerusalem to be with men after the Millennium in the final fulfillment of "Immanuel, God with us" (Ps. 68:16-18; Isa. 7:14; Zech. 2:10, 11; 8:3; Mt. 1:23; Rev. 21:3; 22:5). Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things and conditions that will be in the new eternal perfect state--where God is all and in all as before rebellion started in the universe.

So, we can conclude therefore, that the New Heaven and New Earth will be merely the continuation of the old ones in a new state, that the wonderful and perfect eternal conditions will be the same as was in the mind of God in the creation of the Heaven and Earth, and that the new peoples will be the descendants of Adam and Eve who will be redeemed and brought back into a sinless state as before the fall to replenish the Earth and carry out God's original plan concerning man and the universe (Eph. 3:9-11).

 

[BanjoPicker]

"BEHOLD, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW" (Rev. 21:5)

This statement says that God will make all things new. The Greek, kainos, in this passage means renewed, not new in existence as would have been if the Greek naos had been used. The book of Revelation unveils events that are being fulfilled and will be fulfilled even to the time of the new eternal perfect state. We see the course of the church and its translation, the great tribulation and its judgments, then the thousand years' reign of Christ and the saints on the Earth, Satan's last stand, and the great judgment of the wicked of all ages at the end of the Millennium. Last of all we see the New Heaven and New Earth and the eternal perfect state with all things made new, and the eternal plan of God completed. The voice from the throne which said, "Behold, I make all things new" spoke again and said,

"IT IS DONE" (Rev. 21:6)

WHAT IS DONE?
The sinful career of the immediate heavens and Earth (2 Pet. 3:5-13).

The renovation of the defiled heavens and of the Earth (2 Pet. 3:3-15).

"All things" are made new (Rev. 21:5).

All rebels will finally and completely be put down (1 Cor. 15:24-28).

Man's will purged of all possibility of rebellion (Rev. 21:3-8).

The curse, hunger, crying, sorrow, pain, and death removed (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 21:3-8).

Earth will be place back into the hands of the eternal Godhead by the Redeemer (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Acts 3:21, 22).

Rebels will be judged and confined to he11 (Rev. 20:11-15).

God will be recognized again as the Supreme Ruler of the Universe (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 21:3-8).

God's original plans for free wills and the universe will be realized (Eph. 3:9-11).

God's form of government and His own being will be vindicated before all free wills in the universe (2 Pet. 3:9; Eph. 3:9-11).

God's throne and headquarters will be moved from the third Heaven and established on Earth (Rev. 21:3-22:5).

 

[BanjoPicker]

FULL RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS (Acts 3:21)

The Bible does not mean by the "restitution of all things" that the devil, fallen angels, demons, and wicked men will finally be redeemed. The expression refers to the restoration ministry of the Messiah during the Millennium when God will use Him gather together "all things" which are in Heaven, and which are on Earth (Eph. 1:10). This restoration has been "spoken by the mouths of all his holy prophets since the world began (Acts 3:21). Many of these prophecies of full restoration of the "whole creation" are recorded in many passages. No prophet ever spoke of the conversion and restoration of the rebel spirits or wicked dead men. No such hope is ever held out to such beings in either Testament. In fact, just the opposite is taught in Scripture, as is clear from Ps. 9:17; Isa. 24:21; 66:24; Dan. 12:2; Mt. 5:29, 30; 10:28; 13:42, 50; 18:8; 24:51; 25:30, 41, 46; Mk. 9:43-48; Jn. 3:36; 5:28, 29; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Heb. 2:3; 6:2; 10:26-29; Jude 7; Rev. 14:9-11; 19:20; 20:10-15.
All the wicked dead will have had their chance to be reconciled to God during their lifetime. Salvation has been provided for all, but it benefits only those who will accept and call upon God for mercy. Those who will not become reconciled to God during their lifetime will never have a second chance but will remain dead until the resurrection of all the wicked at the end of the Millennium. They will then be raised and judged for their sins and will be cast into the lake of fire, according to the passages in the last paragraph.
The rest of the creation of free wills and all the material creation, including the animals, will be fully restored to the original perfect state as before the fall. This prefect state will be the final fulfillment of what God had in mind before the creation of all things. Therefore, the final restitution of all things simply means that God will redeem and restore the whole creation as it was before the fall. It means that God's original program will be finally realized with all free moral agents who will conform to His will and that all creatures and the Earth itself will be made perfect again as before the present curse.