If you stop and think about it…

[buckpasser]

The old turkey hunters I know hunting in the south Florida Everglades say the only true Osceolas left are down the Big Cypress swamps at the southern most part of the turkey range, all the other northern Osceola are hybrids mixed the eastern. They're smaller black gobblers, usually only 12-16lbs, smaller feet, spurs, beards, heads etc.

Do you buy in? Could they just be regular ‘ol turkeys that live in a swampy jungle and eat woods foods as opposed to a bigger menu? I personally don’t buy any of the Osceola claim.

 

[Gadget]

Do you buy in? Could they just be regular ‘ol turkeys that live in a swampy jungle and eat woods foods as opposed to a bigger menu? I personally don’t buy any of the Osceola claim.

I've killed 10-12 of them in Big Cypress and they're much different then the rest of Florida, like little pigmy turkey; my guys made camp yesterday in there actually, I couldn't make it this year. The deer are pigmies too, especially down in the keys where they call them key deer.

 

[turkeykirk]

I've killed 10-12 of them in Big Cypress and they're much different then the rest of Florida, like little pigmy turkey; my guys made camp yesterday in there actually, I couldn't make it this year. The deer are pigmies too, especially down in the keys where they call them key deer.

Off topic, but do you think that the python problem affect the turkey population down there.?

 

[Gadget]

Off topic, but do you think that the python problem affect the turkey population down there.?

According to my friend who has lived inside Big Cypress for several decades not much. The TV python hunter Dusty Bought a piece of land in there too. They aren't finding em in high numbers. But it's safe to say some have definitely been eaten by pythons. How many is the big question. I ask my friends all the time if they're seeing any in there. a few sightings but it's rare. I've never seen one, nor most people I talk to.

 

[buckpasser]

I've killed 10-12 of them in Big Cypress and they're much different then the rest of Florida, like little pigmy turkey; my guys made camp yesterday in there actually, I couldn't make it this year. The deer are pigmies too, especially down in the keys where they call them key deer.

Reckon how much of that is from just living in a hot, low nutrition environment vs a colder, agricultural type area? In other words, I’m curious if you swapped eggs from here and put them under a hen down there how much different they’d really look at adulthood. Anyway, I’m jealous of you and your guys! I’ve never been that far down, but the videos make it look very interesting, and I’d imagine you’d feel pretty accomplished bagging one of those Toms. Congrats on killing that many!

 

[Gadget]

Reckon how much of that is from just living in a hot, low nutrition environment vs a colder, agricultural type area? In other words, I’m curious if you swapped eggs from here and put them under a hen down there how much different they’d really look at adulthood. Anyway, I’m jealous of you and your guys! I’ve never been that far down, but the videos make it look very interesting, and I’d imagine you’d feel pretty accomplished bagging one of those Toms. Congrats on killing that many!

That would be an interesting experiment but I do think there is some genetic differences in those birds in extreme south Florida. The coloration is way different which I don't think would change much if you hatched one and fed it grain. Once you drive about an hour north they look like easterns. They act differently too, the birds down there gobble on the roost in the evenings more, which makes roosting birds a viable option for locating. Also if you can get on a gobbling bird and not have someone mess you up then you stand a real good chance of killing him as they come to a call alot easier. The problem is the population is way down in there, we hunt further in then ever before to find em and get away from the crowds, Lots of guys scout for days and weeks to find one then go to him hours before daylight to beat other guys. Especially in Bear Island, it's a zoo in there on opening weekend, lots of confrontations and fighting over birds and spots, so much in fact that they're supposed to turn it into a quota hunt next year.

Had too much going on to go this year to the Cypress but I'm hunting the opening week in middle Florida on public land.

 

[buckpasser]

That would be an interesting experiment but I do think there is some genetic differences in those birds in extreme south Florida. The coloration is way different which I don't think would change much if you hatched one and fed it grain. Once you drive about an hour north they look like easterns. They act differently too, the birds down there gobble on the roost in the evenings more, which makes roosting birds a viable option for locating. Also if you can get on a gobbling bird and not have someone mess you up then you stand a real good chance of killing him as they come to a call alot easier. The problem is the population is way down in there, we hunt further in then ever before to find em and get away from the crowds, Lots of guys scout for days and weeks to find one then go to him hours before daylight to beat other guys. Especially in Bear Island, it's a zoo in there on opening weekend, lots of confrontations and fighting over birds and spots, so much in fact that they're supposed to turn it into a quota hunt next year.

Had too much going on to go this year to the Cypress but I'm hunting the opening week in middle Florida on public land.

If you have any pictures of those, I’d love to see them.

As for my original point, I suppose the Florida hunters would be fine with the entire season opening on, say March 20th? That’s the logic GA is using on a basically equally diverse state, north to south, and it’s being done in the name of population increase.

 

[bfriendly]

Ok so this thread needed a picture. Not to derail, but this birds tail feathers seem to be awful bright or light, versus the bronze fan in my garage. Is it a hybrid or just an eastern with lighter colors?
I’m ok with the season changing up here, but South Georgia is totally different than north. I think dates should correlate the differences.

 

[Gadget]

I stopped posting pictures or talking about kills more than 5 years ago. I have some old threads with pictures but I was thinking of going back and deleting those too. I still get about 5 guys a year sending me PMs asking for information.
Most of Florida opens the 19th this year(the 3rd Saturday in March), only in far South Florida it opens the first Saturday in March which is today March 6th.

 

[herb mcclure]

View attachment 1139294
Ok so this thread needed a picture. Not to derail, but this birds tail feathers seem to be awful bright or light, versus the bronze fan in my garage. Is it a hybrid or just an eastern with lighter colors?
I’m ok with the season changing up here, but South Georgia is totally different than north. I think dates should correlate the differences.

In references to bfriendly post of the lighter colored turkey's feathers shown in his photo, I agree with BeardbustR's quote of wild turkeys becoming more domesticated and their genes becoming mixed-up.
Even when live trapped wild turkeys were being stocked across Georgia in the 70's, I notice how different the turkeys were that were being stocked in the newer places, from the original native turkeys, where I had been hunting for the 20 pious years in remote mountains.
My comparisons of these differences in wild turkeys are from their wildness, coloration, and living in man's civilizations, and I have killed wild turkeys from 15 different Georgia counties.

 

[buckpasser]

View attachment 1139294
Ok so this thread needed a picture. Not to derail, but this birds tail feathers seem to be awful bright or light, versus the bronze fan in my garage. Is it a hybrid or just an eastern with lighter colors?
I’m ok with the season changing up here, but South Georgia is totally different than north. I think dates should correlate the differences.

They’re just Easterns. The “subspecies” thing is mostly fiction anyway. There’s just one species of wild turkey (and tame turkey) that we deal with in North America. Maybe I’m just hard headed, but I’ve been around a little bit too, and spent a lot of money on pursuit of turkeys. I began to have my doubts in Kansas when my friend shot an “eastern” and shot a “Rio”. As for the turkeys of GA being bred down with domestic stock, uh, no.

Very pretty turkey picture though!

 

[buckpasser]

I stopped posting pictures or talking about kills more than 5 years ago. I have some old threads with pictures but I was thinking of going back and deleting those too. I still get about 5 guys a year sending me PMs asking for information.
Most of Florida opens the 19th this year(the 3rd Saturday in March), only in far South Florida it opens the first Saturday in March which is today March 6th.

I’m sorry to hear that. My personal experience with “Osceloas” is that they are no different than the turkeys that inhabit the Piscola creek and surrounding areas of south GA. I was hoping to see something different. Those dates seem about right to me, and south GA should be about a week behind that, just like it used to be. North GA was the dreamland of early hunting before the change I guess.

 

[Gadget]

I’m sorry to hear that. My personal experience with “Osceloas” is that they are no different than the turkeys that inhabit the Piscola creek and surrounding areas of south GA. I was hoping to see something different. Those dates seem about right to me, and south GA should be about a week behind that, just like it used to be. North GA was the dreamland of early hunting before the change I guess.

I agree, they don't look or act noticeably different until you get to the Everglades in South Florida.

 

[earlyspur]

The same folks crying about turkey season being too late in south Georgia are crying about deer season closing too early. Maybe the season doesn't allow you to hunt when you want to hunt or when the weather is right (I love March turkey hunts), but make no mistake about it, the south GA turkey population nor habitat is what it was 20, 10, or even 5 years ago. And despite the old "low hunter recruitment" garbage that the hunting media outlets spew, I can promise you that more gobblers are being pursued by more people than ever before. How about you all just take the 7 week season instead of 8 weeks and put all these years of experience that keeps getting boasted about to good work and get your 2 birds then hit the lake.

And before I get hit with the question. Bainbridge, GA. If I hunted any further south in GA it would be Florida.

 

[Gut_Pile]

The old turkey hunters I know hunting in the south Florida Everglades say the only true Osceolas left are down in the Big Cypress swamps at the southern most part of the turkey range, all the other northern Osceola are hybrids mixed with easterns. They're smaller black gobblers, usually only 12-16lbs, smaller feet, spurs, beards, heads etc.

The one I killed yesterday fit this description perfectly. I didn't have a scale but I would be shocked if he weighed over 12lbs. He didn't have a beard, had 3/4" spurs and tiny feet. Also had a little peanut head.

To give an idea on how small he was, each side of his breast meat fit into sandwich bags.

 

[Gadget]

The one I killed yesterday fit this description perfectly. I didn't have a scale but I would be shocked if he weighed over 12lbs. He didn't have a beard, had 3/4" spurs and tiny feet. Also had a little peanut head.

To give an idea on how small he was, each side of his breast meat fit into sandwich bags.

That sounds about right Will. Congrats on your Osceola.
My guys have been rough camping a week now, haven't got updates, no cell service. Stinks I couldn't make it this year but I leave to hunt the northern zone opener next Thursday on public land.

 

[Gut_Pile]

With that recommendation I bet they called him “Bill the thrill” in his circuits. Maybe we should move deer season to turkey season and turkey season to red belly season? Gee whiz.

"post breeding" being after the majority of hens have been bred and have begun to nest. The same thing Chamberlain and many others are recommending now.

I have the full book written by Bill on PDF if you want a copy of it. Their studies were done all over the country.

I doubt any of it will change your opinion as you seem pretty stuck in your ways but the science is out there and has been for a very long time.

 

[buckpasser]

"post breeding" being after the majority of hens have been bred and have begun to nest. The same thing Chamberlain and many others are recommending now.

I have the full book written by Bill on PDF if you want a copy of it. Their studies were done all over the country.

I doubt any of it will change your opinion as you seem pretty stuck in your ways but the science is out there and has been for a very long time.

I agree. I’m stuck here in common sense and show me land. When has the “science” ever proven that a delayed season or harvest of TOMS would make one little bit of difference in poult recruitment? To ask my original question again, is the south end of the state more highly populated or resilient to turkey population fluctuation due to having a much later start to hunting vs breeding? I’m trying to offer real and pertinent questions and food for thought here on the recent changes. I say it’s hog wash. Prove me wrong.

 

[buckpasser]

The same folks crying about turkey season being too late in south Georgia are crying about deer season closing too early. Maybe the season doesn't allow you to hunt when you want to hunt or when the weather is right (I love March turkey hunts), but make no mistake about it, the south GA turkey population nor habitat is what it was 20, 10, or even 5 years ago. And despite the old "low hunter recruitment" garbage that the hunting media outlets spew, I can promise you that more gobblers are being pursued by more people than ever before. How about you all just take the 7 week season instead of 8 weeks and put all these years of experience that keeps getting boasted about to good work and get your 2 birds then hit the lake.

And before I get hit with the question. Bainbridge, GA. If I hunted any further south in GA it would be Florida.

If I were in Bainbridge I would feel really low about habitat change. And, yes! Many more hunters in this part of the world, no doubt about it. As for complaining about season dates for extreme SWGA deer and turkeys; guilty, and not apologizing. The “do something” cry babies were loud when they wanted change, and I intend to point out the facts now as I see them. I say this change was not only an unproven theory, but a demonstrably debunked stupid idea. Again, if I’m wrong, show me. Are the populations better in S GA and S AL than north???

 

[Gut_Pile]

I agree. I’m stuck here in common sense and show me land. When has the “science” ever proven that a delayed season or harvest of TOMS would make one little bit of difference in poult recruitment? To ask my original question again, is the south end of the state more highly populated or resilient to turkey population fluctuation due to having a much later start to hunting vs breeding? I’m trying to offer real and pertinent questions and food for thought here on the recent changes. I say it’s hog wash. Prove me wrong.

To answer your question, I have hunted south, middle, north, east, and west GA and all of them more than once. I consistently see/hear more turkeys in the southern portion of the state than others.