spurrs and racks
Banned
This! ...........
Everything eats an egg
s&r
Everything eats an egg
s&r
Welcome Guest!
intresting read
- Thread starter spurrs and racks
- Start date
dutchman
Senior Member
Crows probably get more turkey eggs than most of us realize.
Covehnter
Senior Member
Who would have known we had so many wildlife biologists present. 
Garnto88
Senior Member
I can assure you there are many hunters that spend time in woods and understand food sources, habitat, etc know much more than any biologist. I wonder and question much of the studies I’ve read and obviously they have no answers or explanation for decreased populations. I can make my own observations and pretty much hit the nail on the head and I’m no biologist ..
Swamprat
Swamprat
Ol timer once told me a crow is doing three things....
Flying to go destroy something
Destroying something
Flying back from destroying something
Crows do not miss much kinda like the donkey with the cow herd to ward off yotes. Step up to the fence and that donkey will pick you out from 300 yards away across the pasture.
Crows will rob not just turkey nests but just about any bird nest that has eggs they can find. They are the coyotes of the air.
XIronheadX
PF Trump Cam Operator !20/20
You are dead right about that. I've been doing a 30 to 40 yr field study myself. lol
Covehnter
Senior Member
You have observations, but you don't have science. So how do you know you are hitting any nail? I agree with your reasons given beforehand though- habitat loss is the largest of many reasons, nesting habitat to be more specific. And you are right to question the findings in many of the studies. You need to look no further than those responsible for the study to determine why. Just like they make better welders, landscapers, plumbers and electricians, they make better researchers. And the quality of those performing the field work (graduate/ phD students) is also of pivotal importance. Seek reputable researchers and I believe you will find more digestible findings. While you may know more than some biologist, you don't know more than all biologists. I feel the same way. I attempt to find those I can trust before accepting scientific findings. I'm glad I have those type of people helping make decisions for turkeys over trophy gobbler hunters personally. I guess my initial response was meant to read, I'm glad the people making the decisions for the future of wild turkeys must have some type of proven credentials.
Garnto88
Senior Member
I have no idea what a trophy gobbler hunter is but I put more stock in my observations and someone else that has spent over 40 or so years in the habitat vs a graduate student that has never really observed other than in a sanitized controlled environment. I have always questioned what is going on with our funds that 'is supposed to protect and maintain habitat'.. This goes beyond planting a food plot.. Turkey habitat is the number one issue and predation regardless of what any graduate study says. Also a I question what is being done with this research.. Who is looking at it and doing anything about it..? As for as trophy gobbler hunters I am a turkey hunter.. The trophy is in the eye of the beholder and there are not many on this forum that understand and have spent as much time in the turkey woods as I have. I understand that it is a bigger project than managing a 1000 acre block of land. So to answer that hits the nail on the head.
spurrs and racks
Banned
I want you to read the article
form your own opinion. Then you tell me exactly how much science is in there.
I am old enough to know that in my lifetime. This state, Georgia, had none, zero, nada ...wild turkeys. They had to stocked from wild flock. A lot of it , was from turkeys that were stocked in PNWR, and then trapped and spread through out the state.
These are wild birds, their population will ebb and flow. These are wild birds, there is not much in the wild that is not their enemy.
The timber companies who planted 30 years ago, and there is a lot of it, are clear cutting the properties now.
These same timber companies, care about timber. They will tell you in a board room the wildlife is a valuable resource. But, it's about timber. That 's why they spray a clear cut dead. Do they do that for wildlife? No, they do that for timber.
The control burning that goes on in our national forest, and federal lands, it's about timber and habitat for wildlife. But, we are not so stupid as hunters to know when deer have small babies (starts in June- August) and turkey have poults in late April and May into early June that this is a good thing. Our wildlife don't need any help NOT to survive. Control burns should be in the winter...period. Be done with it by March 1.
In closing, our opinion matters, but as I have found out, it only matters to us as hunters. They rest is for people trying to make a dollar off of hunters and our industry we build by purchasing their equipment and other products.
s&r
form your own opinion. Then you tell me exactly how much science is in there.
I am old enough to know that in my lifetime. This state, Georgia, had none, zero, nada ...wild turkeys. They had to stocked from wild flock. A lot of it , was from turkeys that were stocked in PNWR, and then trapped and spread through out the state.
These are wild birds, their population will ebb and flow. These are wild birds, there is not much in the wild that is not their enemy.
The timber companies who planted 30 years ago, and there is a lot of it, are clear cutting the properties now.
These same timber companies, care about timber. They will tell you in a board room the wildlife is a valuable resource. But, it's about timber. That 's why they spray a clear cut dead. Do they do that for wildlife? No, they do that for timber.
The control burning that goes on in our national forest, and federal lands, it's about timber and habitat for wildlife. But, we are not so stupid as hunters to know when deer have small babies (starts in June- August) and turkey have poults in late April and May into early June that this is a good thing. Our wildlife don't need any help NOT to survive. Control burns should be in the winter...period. Be done with it by March 1.
In closing, our opinion matters, but as I have found out, it only matters to us as hunters. They rest is for people trying to make a dollar off of hunters and our industry we build by purchasing their equipment and other products.
s&r
Gut_Pile
Senior Member
Your memory is a little off. GA has always had turkeys, there just weren't huntable populations.
spurrs and racks
Banned
Memory
ain't what it used to be....but I can tell you this.
I do remember the first turkey track, the first turkey I ever saw, and when Georgia first had a turkey season in my lifetime.
The first turkeys I ever heard gobble in this state were in PNWR and the first gobbler I ever killed in this state was in Oaky Woods WMA......
And I grew up hunting turkeys in Lowndes County Alabama where there was plenty of turkeys but you might ride in a truck a mile between deer tracks that crossed the road.
So I ain't forgot EVERYTHING in life....yet
and that was a long time ago my friend.
s&r
ain't what it used to be....but I can tell you this.
I do remember the first turkey track, the first turkey I ever saw, and when Georgia first had a turkey season in my lifetime.
The first turkeys I ever heard gobble in this state were in PNWR and the first gobbler I ever killed in this state was in Oaky Woods WMA......
And I grew up hunting turkeys in Lowndes County Alabama where there was plenty of turkeys but you might ride in a truck a mile between deer tracks that crossed the road.
So I ain't forgot EVERYTHING in life....yet
and that was a long time ago my friend.
s&r
Covehnter
Senior Member
I'm not disagreeing with you. But provide me with this answer, what are your observations going to do to help change the situation? Nothing.
You have to rely on the science to provide facts to put on the table to provoke change and encourage funding for said change. Our observations are not enough. So you should be supporting legitimate research, questioning it is fine, but frowning upon it is counterproductive. Biologists are the ones that initiate that necessary research. And while you may think these findings are not looked at, I can guarantee you they are. There are turkey committees currently analyzing and making adjustments using the data. The delayed start on several Alabama WMAs is an example of this.
And there may be many on here that have not spent as much time in the turkey woods as you have, but I'm not one of them. We are on the same team.
Garnto88
Senior Member
I agree with you. Point taken and you are right
spurrs and racks
Banned
well.....
moving the season dates will do nothing. Bird nesting is about weather conditions. Turkeys do not have a rut is that puts it in terms we can all agree on.
This ain't the first season where gobbling was either way early or way late in the 6 to 8 weeks or turkey season.
It was not to many years ago when they extended turkey season they may well shorten it. But moving the dates around, that's like shooting dice. And, it will accomplish nothing, and they know this. It's just something else to put in print that makes them look like they are looking at all the options.
s&r
moving the season dates will do nothing. Bird nesting is about weather conditions. Turkeys do not have a rut is that puts it in terms we can all agree on.
This ain't the first season where gobbling was either way early or way late in the 6 to 8 weeks or turkey season.
It was not to many years ago when they extended turkey season they may well shorten it. But moving the dates around, that's like shooting dice. And, it will accomplish nothing, and they know this. It's just something else to put in print that makes them look like they are looking at all the options.
s&r
Garnto88
Senior Member
Just because turkeys start gobbling early doesn’t mean anything. They start gobbling the same time every year. The amount of daylight determines this and for as long as I remember the poults begins to hatch early May well into June in some cases . The most rediculous thing I hear people say is “it’s going to be
over before the season starts”, “too many hens we need a fall season” and “this warm weather will make them start nesting by beginning of season”. Last year I heard I guy say he saw poults second week of season . I just shake my head and move on...
over before the season starts”, “too many hens we need a fall season” and “this warm weather will make them start nesting by beginning of season”. Last year I heard I guy say he saw poults second week of season . I just shake my head and move on...
Luke.Deer.Commander
Senior Member
Where on earth did you read that prescribed burning during the growing season(presumably nesting season for Quail and turkey) was detrimental to a population? Hens of both species seek out areas that were burned during the growing season the year before. Burning during the growing season allows for wiregrass to seed out and have good bare ground to germinate in. Burning during the growing season also allows for total kill of hardwood species such as water oak that can ruin a stand of Pine/wiregrass that are perfect habitat for nesting. Sorry my friend, I think you missed the mark there
Luke.Deer.Commander
Senior Member
Quail and turkey also posses the ability to renest. This is scientific fact. Since the land of time fire has been on the landscape during the growing season/natural fire season whether it was lit by Native American or lightening. Wildlife are able to adapt. You should know this much. Don't claim it to be true until you do research. I suggest reading some Tall Timbers publications where it is well documented that burning during the growing season can be beneficial for Quail and turkey populations. Do us a favor and light a fire on your private property this may and I promise next spring you'll still have a substantial turkey population, and if you don't I'll reimburse your drip torch fuel costs. This whole GON article is silly. I don't think the numbers are truly what they are claimed to be.
XIronheadX
PF Trump Cam Operator !20/20
http://www.americaslongleaf.org/media/8605/Fire Effects on Breeding Birds (NFWF).pdf
Appears to be good till mid May. Another one said nest loss was around 15 percent, and they renested, so the loss is minimal. Future benefit is great. About 90 PDF's out there about lighting season or controlled burns. Some with shorter rotation. Adding actual tests and studies to years of experience and knowledge is a good thing.
https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/williams_mary_m_201212_ms.pdf
http://talltimbers.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PalmerandHurst1998_op.pdf
Appears to be good till mid May. Another one said nest loss was around 15 percent, and they renested, so the loss is minimal. Future benefit is great. About 90 PDF's out there about lighting season or controlled burns. Some with shorter rotation. Adding actual tests and studies to years of experience and knowledge is a good thing.
https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/williams_mary_m_201212_ms.pdf
http://talltimbers.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PalmerandHurst1998_op.pdf
Luke.Deer.Commander
Senior Member
Thank you Ironhead. Reading can be valuable before so many want to be biologists find this forum and behind posting unfactual information
