1gr8bldr
Senior Member
I understand the argument as to why some don't wish to celebrate Jesus's birth on that day due to pagan orgins. So I say to them, which day have you decided to celebrate his birth?
Welcome Guest!
Jehovah's Witnesses
- Thread starter Jody Hawk
- Start date
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I guess at this point in history, it would be hard to change it for the whole world celebrates Christ's birthday on Dec. 25th.
One could personally choose another day to celebrate Christ's birthday. Then we're back to the same argument of Sabbath keeping. Does it really matter what day we choose as our Sabbath?
I can see JW's point on not celebrating near the winter solstice using pagan rituals etc. The Baptist family I was referring to believe Christmas should not be so secular and commercial. Their kids were taught that Santa was make believe. I can see their prospective. Theirs is for other reasons than the JW's who say it's because it's based on The Pagan celebration of the Winter Solstice.
That being said, their are many beliefs involving the JW's that should be considered for discussion other than things like celebrating birthdays and consuming blood. I'm not too concerned with the dietary restrictions, their witness program, who can enter their Kingdom hall, not attending wedding & funerals in churches of other denominations, and things of this nature.
I'm more concerned with their views on who Jesus is, how "works" affect salvation, and why they are the only one's witnessing properly. Also worth discussing is Christ's return and God's Kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven.
Whether there will be an actual physical Kingdom on the earth that isn't here yet vs a spiritual kingdom that's already here. Having a spiritual resurrection vs soul sleep.
Being in the Kingdom instead of waiting in the ground for it.
Having a spiritual resurrection to Heaven instead of waiting in some type of spiritual holding place.
Staying in Heaven instead of returning for a physical resurrection.
Eternal death vs eternal burning. Being good enough to live in the Kingdom by "works" vs dying when you die.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Jacob wrestled with the Angel of the Lord.
Angel?
Angel?
centerpin fan
Senior Member
Fuzzy D Fellers
Banned
Glad Jesus is the judge! Yall want to send every one to Hades.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Although not a JW, I believe the unsaved will not have eternal life. I think JW's believe Jesus died for their sins as described in John 3:16. Salvation is of the Lords. It's a pretty simple formula.
JW's know what they know.
Will Galen
Member
Were Adam and Eve merely Allegorical (Fictional) Persons?
Because scientists have put forth the theory of Evolution as to how we got here, some Christian denominations decided to deny the Biblical account of the rebellion in Eden as being the literal truth and declare the account allegorical. Meaning not real, but an abstract spiritual meaning whereby Adam represents all early men.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe the creation account. What’s overlooked by unbelievers is the Eden account is referred to by many other books of the Bible and they always speak of the account as if it were real. Consider some accounts.
(Luke 3:23) When Jesus began his work, he was about 30 years old, being the son, as the opinion was, of Joseph . . . son of David . . . son of Abraham . . . son of Noah . . . son of Adam . . . son of God.
Luke says at Luke 1:3, “I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them to you in logical order.” Then in the third chapter of Luke he lists the genealogy of Jesus. [Only a partial list is presented above] Adam is included with Jesus’ ancestors, being the first man listed. By saying, “I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, and then by listing Adam as part of Jesus’ genealogy Luke’s attesting the Eden account as true, and Adam is a real person.
----------
(1 Chronicles 1:1-4) Adam, Seth, Enosh, 2Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, 3Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, 4Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Here’s another genealogy mentioning Adam. This time in the Bible book of 1st Chronicles.
----------
(1 Corinthians 15:20-22) But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. 21For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.
(1 Corinthians 15:45,47) So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam (Jesus) became a life-giving spirit. 47The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven.”
The apostle Paul says the ‘first man Adam’ was a living person. Thus attesting to the Genesis account of creation as true, and ruling out Adam as an allegorical person representing all early man.
----------
(Jude 14,15)“Yes, the seventh one in line from Adam, Eʹnoch, also prophesied about them when he said: “Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads 15to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they did in an ungodly way, and concerning all the shocking things that ungodly sinners spoke against him.”
Here Jesus’ step brother Jude attests Adam is real by saying Enoch was seventh in line from Adam.
----------
(John 8:44) "You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.”
The apostle John here records Jesus speaking to the Jews seeking to kill him. Adam isn’t mentioned, but when Jesus refers to the Devil as a murderer and the father of the lie, he’s referring to the account in Eden. That’s where the Devil told the first lie to Eve. He is a murderer when he began because Adam and Eve died because of the Devil’s lies. Thus both John and Jesus are attesting the Eden account as true.
----------
(Revelation 12:9) So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
(Revelation 20:1, 2) And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years.
There’s two references in the Bible book of Revelation lending credibility to the Eden account. When the apostle John speaks of the Devil as the ‘original serpent,’ he is referring to the account in Eden.
----------
(1 Timothy 2:13,14) For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and became a transgressor.
This scripture is referring directly to the account in Eden, thus presenting the account as real.
----------
(Mark 10:6) However, from the beginning of creation, ‘He made them male and female.
This is a short scripture, but it packs a lot of information. First it’s referring to the first human pair, Adam and Eve. Second, it shows God didn’t use Evolution as a part of the creation process to make mankind, which is what some people claim. How so?
Evolution says life sprang spontaneously from nonliving matter, and life gradually evolved. Mark’s account says God made them male and female from the beginning of creation.
If Evolution were true the fossil record should show simple life forms originating gradually and transitional forms linking previous ones, but it doesn’t. The fossil record shows a sudden appearance of complex life in great variety and in separate kinds. So
God making them male and female from the beginning of creation is proven by the fossil record.
----------
(Romans 5:14) Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the same way that Adam transgressed, who bears a resemblance to the one who was to come.
Adam sinned by disobeying God. Those who had not sinned in the same way are the descendants of Adam and Eve. Because they sinned before conceiving any children, we, their children, inherited sin and death from them. Romans 5:12 confirms, “That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned . . .”
Jesus is the one that Adam bears a resemblance to in as much as God sent Jesus to die for us and thus replace Adam as our life giver.
As you can see from the above if Adam didn’t really exist then there would have been no need for Jesus to die for us because no sin would have been committed. Since Jesus did die for us it’s proof of Adam’s existence, and the Eden creation account is true.
---------
(1 John 3:11,12) “This is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should have love for one another; not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother were righteous.”
Cain killed his brother Able, both were children of Adam and Eve, giving credibility to Adam being a real person.
----------
(Matthew 19:4,5) “[Jesus] said: ‘Did you not read [at Genesis 1:27; 2:24] that he who created them [Adam and Eve] from the beginning made them male and female and said, “For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh”’”
Jesus said, “Did you not read? Jesus was quoting scriptures about Adam and Eve, so he obviously believed Adam to be a real person
----------
(Matthew 6:9)You must pray, then, this way “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. [or Hallowed]
How does this scripture give credibility to the Eden creation account?
It was in Eden where the Devil called God a liar, thus slandering God’s name. Clearing his father’s name of the Devil’s false charges is a matter of prime concern to Jesus, and the reason Jesus put the sanctifying of God’s name first of the things he taught us to pray for.
If the Eden creation account were an allegory then there would have been no reason for God’s name to be sanctified. Thus Jesus instructing us to pray for the sanctification of God’s name shows the Eden account to be real.
----------
As you can see from the above, it’s not just Genesis that presents the Eden account as true. Many other Bible books do the same. Does that make those accounts allegorical also?
The problem with saying the Eden account is allegorical is it calls into question the whole Bible.
If Adam is an allegory representing all early mankind, then there is no real Adam. If Adam isn’t real, then he couldn’t have sinned. If Adam didn’t sin then there would be no reason for Jesus to die for us. Which leads us to Paul’s words below;
“If Christ has not been raised up, YOUR faith is useless; YOU are yet in YOUR sins. 18In fact, also, those who fell asleep [in death] in union with Christ perished. (1Corinthians 15:17,18)
Do you see where not believing the Eden account takes us?
You might ask, “But what about the talking snake? That sounds like something in a child’s storybook, that has to make the Eden account allegorical.”
To put it bluntly to people that believe in God and angels, why should a talking snake bother you? You know God and his angels can do things impossible for mankind.
It wouldn’t have been hard for the Devil to cause a snake to talk. For example, a ventriloquist can make his voice seem to come from another source. Also see Numbers 22:26-31, where Jehovah caused Balaam’s donkey to speak.
We can see from the above that the Eden account is woven throughout the scriptures in such a way that it can’t be allegorical. The reason for a lot of the Bible being written is because God wants us to know that we die because of the rebellion in Eden and that we inherited sin and death from the rebels, and what he’s doing and plans to do to repair things.
Some denominations chose to declare the Eden account allegorical because they started believing in the theory of evolution. But the thing about the evolution theory is it was just a theory 150 years ago and it’s no more than a fading theory in our day. Life it’s proving to be to complex to have arisen spontaneously.
The evolution theory says life sprang spontaneously from nonliving matter, and life gradually evolved from there. But putting aside the first impossibility, there is no way it could have evolved! Living things have to have certain essentials to keep living. Something arising spontaneously would die almost instantly, because it wouldn’t know it needs anything to keep living, is has no way to move so it has no way to get what it needed, and getting to something it needs would be pointless since it has no way of using what it needs . . . it would have no way to do anything. Evolution is impossible.
To paraphrase George Wald, Harvard University biochemist and Nobel Laureate, 1954, "The spontaneous generation of a living organism is impossible. Yet here we are -- as a result, of spontaneous generation.”
Obviously Wald doesn't believe the Biblical account that states that Jehovah God is the fountain (source) of life. (Psalms 36:9)
Jehovah made life able to replicate it’s own kind, thus the Bible shows that life always comes from prior life. There’s even a scientific term for it called . . . the law of biogenesis. It’s the observation, attributed to Louis Pasteur, that living things come only from other living things.
In reality those denominations that have declared the Eden account an allegory have exchanged the truth for the lie!
Because scientists have put forth the theory of Evolution as to how we got here, some Christian denominations decided to deny the Biblical account of the rebellion in Eden as being the literal truth and declare the account allegorical. Meaning not real, but an abstract spiritual meaning whereby Adam represents all early men.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe the creation account. What’s overlooked by unbelievers is the Eden account is referred to by many other books of the Bible and they always speak of the account as if it were real. Consider some accounts.
(Luke 3:23) When Jesus began his work, he was about 30 years old, being the son, as the opinion was, of Joseph . . . son of David . . . son of Abraham . . . son of Noah . . . son of Adam . . . son of God.
Luke says at Luke 1:3, “I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them to you in logical order.” Then in the third chapter of Luke he lists the genealogy of Jesus. [Only a partial list is presented above] Adam is included with Jesus’ ancestors, being the first man listed. By saying, “I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, and then by listing Adam as part of Jesus’ genealogy Luke’s attesting the Eden account as true, and Adam is a real person.
----------
(1 Chronicles 1:1-4) Adam, Seth, Enosh, 2Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, 3Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, 4Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Here’s another genealogy mentioning Adam. This time in the Bible book of 1st Chronicles.
----------
(1 Corinthians 15:20-22) But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. 21For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.
(1 Corinthians 15:45,47) So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam (Jesus) became a life-giving spirit. 47The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven.”
The apostle Paul says the ‘first man Adam’ was a living person. Thus attesting to the Genesis account of creation as true, and ruling out Adam as an allegorical person representing all early man.
----------
(Jude 14,15)“Yes, the seventh one in line from Adam, Eʹnoch, also prophesied about them when he said: “Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads 15to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they did in an ungodly way, and concerning all the shocking things that ungodly sinners spoke against him.”
Here Jesus’ step brother Jude attests Adam is real by saying Enoch was seventh in line from Adam.
----------
(John 8:44) "You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.”
The apostle John here records Jesus speaking to the Jews seeking to kill him. Adam isn’t mentioned, but when Jesus refers to the Devil as a murderer and the father of the lie, he’s referring to the account in Eden. That’s where the Devil told the first lie to Eve. He is a murderer when he began because Adam and Eve died because of the Devil’s lies. Thus both John and Jesus are attesting the Eden account as true.
----------
(Revelation 12:9) So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
(Revelation 20:1, 2) And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years.
There’s two references in the Bible book of Revelation lending credibility to the Eden account. When the apostle John speaks of the Devil as the ‘original serpent,’ he is referring to the account in Eden.
----------
(1 Timothy 2:13,14) For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and became a transgressor.
This scripture is referring directly to the account in Eden, thus presenting the account as real.
----------
(Mark 10:6) However, from the beginning of creation, ‘He made them male and female.
This is a short scripture, but it packs a lot of information. First it’s referring to the first human pair, Adam and Eve. Second, it shows God didn’t use Evolution as a part of the creation process to make mankind, which is what some people claim. How so?
Evolution says life sprang spontaneously from nonliving matter, and life gradually evolved. Mark’s account says God made them male and female from the beginning of creation.
If Evolution were true the fossil record should show simple life forms originating gradually and transitional forms linking previous ones, but it doesn’t. The fossil record shows a sudden appearance of complex life in great variety and in separate kinds. So
God making them male and female from the beginning of creation is proven by the fossil record.
----------
(Romans 5:14) Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the same way that Adam transgressed, who bears a resemblance to the one who was to come.
Adam sinned by disobeying God. Those who had not sinned in the same way are the descendants of Adam and Eve. Because they sinned before conceiving any children, we, their children, inherited sin and death from them. Romans 5:12 confirms, “That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned . . .”
Jesus is the one that Adam bears a resemblance to in as much as God sent Jesus to die for us and thus replace Adam as our life giver.
As you can see from the above if Adam didn’t really exist then there would have been no need for Jesus to die for us because no sin would have been committed. Since Jesus did die for us it’s proof of Adam’s existence, and the Eden creation account is true.
---------
(1 John 3:11,12) “This is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should have love for one another; not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother were righteous.”
Cain killed his brother Able, both were children of Adam and Eve, giving credibility to Adam being a real person.
----------
(Matthew 19:4,5) “[Jesus] said: ‘Did you not read [at Genesis 1:27; 2:24] that he who created them [Adam and Eve] from the beginning made them male and female and said, “For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh”’”
Jesus said, “Did you not read? Jesus was quoting scriptures about Adam and Eve, so he obviously believed Adam to be a real person
----------
(Matthew 6:9)You must pray, then, this way “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. [or Hallowed]
How does this scripture give credibility to the Eden creation account?
It was in Eden where the Devil called God a liar, thus slandering God’s name. Clearing his father’s name of the Devil’s false charges is a matter of prime concern to Jesus, and the reason Jesus put the sanctifying of God’s name first of the things he taught us to pray for.
If the Eden creation account were an allegory then there would have been no reason for God’s name to be sanctified. Thus Jesus instructing us to pray for the sanctification of God’s name shows the Eden account to be real.
----------
As you can see from the above, it’s not just Genesis that presents the Eden account as true. Many other Bible books do the same. Does that make those accounts allegorical also?
The problem with saying the Eden account is allegorical is it calls into question the whole Bible.
If Adam is an allegory representing all early mankind, then there is no real Adam. If Adam isn’t real, then he couldn’t have sinned. If Adam didn’t sin then there would be no reason for Jesus to die for us. Which leads us to Paul’s words below;
“If Christ has not been raised up, YOUR faith is useless; YOU are yet in YOUR sins. 18In fact, also, those who fell asleep [in death] in union with Christ perished. (1Corinthians 15:17,18)
Do you see where not believing the Eden account takes us?
You might ask, “But what about the talking snake? That sounds like something in a child’s storybook, that has to make the Eden account allegorical.”
To put it bluntly to people that believe in God and angels, why should a talking snake bother you? You know God and his angels can do things impossible for mankind.
It wouldn’t have been hard for the Devil to cause a snake to talk. For example, a ventriloquist can make his voice seem to come from another source. Also see Numbers 22:26-31, where Jehovah caused Balaam’s donkey to speak.
We can see from the above that the Eden account is woven throughout the scriptures in such a way that it can’t be allegorical. The reason for a lot of the Bible being written is because God wants us to know that we die because of the rebellion in Eden and that we inherited sin and death from the rebels, and what he’s doing and plans to do to repair things.
Some denominations chose to declare the Eden account allegorical because they started believing in the theory of evolution. But the thing about the evolution theory is it was just a theory 150 years ago and it’s no more than a fading theory in our day. Life it’s proving to be to complex to have arisen spontaneously.
The evolution theory says life sprang spontaneously from nonliving matter, and life gradually evolved from there. But putting aside the first impossibility, there is no way it could have evolved! Living things have to have certain essentials to keep living. Something arising spontaneously would die almost instantly, because it wouldn’t know it needs anything to keep living, is has no way to move so it has no way to get what it needed, and getting to something it needs would be pointless since it has no way of using what it needs . . . it would have no way to do anything. Evolution is impossible.
To paraphrase George Wald, Harvard University biochemist and Nobel Laureate, 1954, "The spontaneous generation of a living organism is impossible. Yet here we are -- as a result, of spontaneous generation.”
Obviously Wald doesn't believe the Biblical account that states that Jehovah God is the fountain (source) of life. (Psalms 36:9)
Jehovah made life able to replicate it’s own kind, thus the Bible shows that life always comes from prior life. There’s even a scientific term for it called . . . the law of biogenesis. It’s the observation, attributed to Louis Pasteur, that living things come only from other living things.
In reality those denominations that have declared the Eden account an allegory have exchanged the truth for the lie!
Last edited:
obligated
Senior Member
Watchtower is blood guilty on many accounts.They are a cult.At best a real estate scam.Their "truth"constantly changes.Gods word doesnt.He is steadfast and true unlike false prophets that claim the "truth" but are blinded by arrogance and greed.The blood issue is one they have flip flopped on and also organ transplants.They considered it cannibalism!Then there is the protecting of known pedophiles by not expelling them and telling the victims to be silent or face the elders for "causing divisions"!
Then there is the history of Charles Taze Russel and "Judge"Rutherford
They encourage you to question your faith to see if it is correct but any questions from rank and file about past or present teachings are frowned on.
I have several relatives in the cult.Most are alcoholic,pill popping liars that cant get an honest word out of their twisted tongues.Two are practicing elders and are drunks and have a loong history of stealing,whoring,lieing and being hypocrites.White washed graves with every sort of defilement inside!
Then there is the history of Charles Taze Russel and "Judge"RutherfordI have several relatives in the cult.Most are alcoholic,pill popping liars that cant get an honest word out of their twisted tongues.Two are practicing elders and are drunks and have a loong history of stealing,whoring,lieing and being hypocrites.White washed graves with every sort of defilement inside!
hobbs27
Senior Member
Will Galen,
You have answered my questions with a response that no one is interested in that. I can understand that, but you're not going to gain anyone's interest by copy and paste propaganda right out of the watchtower publication.
You need to engage in the discussions.
You have answered my questions with a response that no one is interested in that. I can understand that, but you're not going to gain anyone's interest by copy and paste propaganda right out of the watchtower publication.
You need to engage in the discussions.
fish hawk
Bass Master
Little update since I posted in this thread last.My step father committed adultery,was disfellowshiped,shunned by the congregation and my Mom divorced him.I know we are all sinners but all I can think about is all his big talk and how he bashed all other religions and preachers of God's word.As long as were coping and pasting I have one of my own.
http://wit.irr.org/four-dangers-of-jehovahs-witnesses
Just glad I don't have to earn my salvation cause I'd never make it.Thank you Jesus!!!!!!!
Will Galen
Member
Since I haven’t been copying and pasting articles out of our publications, I don’t believe I’ll ever get a better compliment to my writing, I truly thank you!
As I said in my first post, #267, I quote, “After reading all these stories about what people believe about Jehovah’s Witnesses, I must say a lot of what is said about our beliefs isn’t accurate.”
Thus I’m not going to be in engaging in discussions about whether our beliefs are right or wrong with people that have already made up their mind. Such discussions are a waste of time since they don’t change anyone’s mind and most often turn into heated arguments.
I’m only interested in posting what Jehovah’s Witnesses actually believe to clear up misconceptions. With accurate information I believe people can decide for themselves whether they agree with it or not.
I endeavor to do that with posts like the ones on Christmas and blood transfusions, etc. Post counts show people are interested.
Good Day!
Last edited:
hobbs27
Senior Member
Have a very Merry Christmas!
j_seph
Senior Member
How did the above get derived from <sup class="versenum">15 </sup>But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Will Galen
Member
The above quote of 1st Peter 3:15 from The New World Translation wasn’t derived from the King James Bible that you quoted from. Both Bibles were translated from copies of the original Hebrew and Greek languages the Bible was written in. So the text in both Bible’s is derived from those original languages not from one another.
What I think you want to know is why the difference in language?
One reason is obviously because they had different translators living 400 years apart. [1611 versus 2013] Another reason is because of the sheer amount of words an English Bible translator has to pick from.
The number of words in the English language is estimated by the Global Language Monitor to be over one million. Whereas French for example has about 100,000 words.
The reason for so many different Bible translations is because languages change over time. Let’s look at how different Bibles translate 1st Peter 3:15.
(1 Peter 3:15) New World Translation
But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.
(1 Peter 3:15) King James Version
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
(1 Peter 3:15) American Standard Version
But sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: [being] ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:
(1 Peter 3:15) The Bible in Basic English
But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;
(1 Peter 3:15) Common English Bible
Instead, regard Christ as holy in your hearts. Whenever anyone asks you to speak of your hope, be ready to defend it. Yet do this with respectful humility, maintaining a good conscience.
(1 Peter 3:15) The Complete Jewish Bible
But treat the Messiah as holy, as Lord in your hearts;s while remaining always ready to give a reasoned answer to anyone who asks you to explain the hope you have in you - yet with humility and fear,
(1 Peter 3:15) English Standard Version
but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
(1 Peter 3:15) God’s Word Translation
But dedicate your lives to Christ as Lord. Always be ready to defend your confidence [in God] when anyone asks you to explain it. However, make your defense with gentleness and respect.
(1 Peter 3:15) Jubilee Bible 2000
but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to respond to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and reverence,
(1 Peter 3:15) The Message Bible
Through thick and thin, keep your hearts at attention, in adoration before Christ, your Master. Be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you're living the way you are, and always with the utmost courtesy.
(1 Peter 3:15) New International Version
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
(1 Peter 3:15) Revised Standard Version
but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
As you can see English Bible translators translate this text quite differently from one another, but they are all saying much the same thing. Personally I like having so many different translations, that’s why I have about 20 different English translations in my own library.
It’s good to have so many different translations. That way if you don’t understand a particular Bible passage you can look it up in different Bibles and maybe get a better understanding.
Here’s something I wrote previously about the Bible that I think most Christians might enjoy.
The Bible
It’s been reported that there have been over 6,000,000,000 bibles printed. One online encyclopedia says there are over 41,000 Christian denominations. Considering those two numbers, the amount of belief to place in the bible is a question most people consider sometime in their life.
A good number of people decide the answer to that question based on what they have heard, either from their family, their friends, or from the news media. Nowadays they may even decide their belief in the bible based on what the Internet has to say.
Despite whatever people have to say about it, the bible itself says it’s inspired of God. (2 Timothy 3:16-17) says, All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
Notice it says ‘All scripture is inspired.’
The bible also tells us why it was written, and it gives everlasting life as a possibility.
(Roman’s 15:4) For everything that was written long ago was written to instruct us, so that we might have hope through the endurance and encouragement that the Scriptures give us.
(John 20:31) But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name.
(John 3:17) For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.
(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
Despite the bible saying it is inspired of God and written for our instruction, and despite it promising everlasting life, the question arises, if the bible is really from God, how come so many disparage it? Meaning, belittle, minimize, downplay, discount, and downgrade it?
Ask yourself this question, “How many religions did Christ Jesus start? Now compare that with the number of denominations reported. (41,000) With so many denominations teaching conflicting doctrines which all reportedly come from the same bible, it’s no wonder the bible gets disparaged.
For example, some denominations believe everything was created in 6 days. (God rested on the 7th) They believe that each day was a 24 hour period, despite evidence to the contrary. What that belief does is conflict with known science, bringing disparagement on all denominations.
However, regardless of how men interpret the bible, if the bible is inspired by God and is really his instructions for mankind it should hold up under a close examination.
At Isaiah 55:11 God says, “. . . so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it.”
Since the Bible is God’s word, and since God has intended the bible for mankind’s instruction, and since he says his word will have certain success, what are the results after all these years?
Despite bible burnings, and the clergy’s efforts to keep the bible out of the common people’s hands, the results show God’s backing. The bible is both the world’s most widely translated book—parts of it being available in over 2,400 languages. And as referred to above, the best-selling book of all time with more than six billion copies printed.
How we got the bible.
The bible was started by Moses who was given the Ten Commandments and instructed by God to write them and other commandments and instructions down in a book. Exodus 17:14 says, “Write down for yourself these words, because it is in accordance with these words that I do conclude a covenant with you and Israel.”
After Moses, God used men from all walks of life, such as Joshua a general, Samuel a judge, David a king, Daniel a prime minister, Ezra a scribe, Nehemiah a court official, Amos a herdsman and Jeremiah a prophet.
They confessed that the thoughts they wrote were not of their own origin. David said at 2 Samuel 23:2, “The spirit of Jehovah it was that spoke by me, and his word was upon my tongue.”
Most of the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, but a few chapters were recorded in Aramaic. The New Testament was written entirely in Greek. The original Bible writings were handwritten on perishable materials such as papyrus and vellum. Since they didn't last long, copies were always being made.
Hebrew scribes, called masoretes exercised great care to transmit the text accurately. The had all kinds of ways to check for accuracy, and they even counted every letter of the Bible in order to ensure accurate copying.
Translating the Bible
To make the Scriptures available in other languages, Bible translation became necessary. Bible translators today generally use original-language master texts to produce modern translations.
What’s a master text? To illustrate, if 100 people copied for example, the novel War and Peace, no matter how diligent they were, some would make mistakes. If you took one of those 100 copies at random, you might get one with a mistake in it. However if you compared all 100 copies, you could find any and all mistakes, because everyone wouldn’t make the same mistakes. Thus you could make a error free master text, or copy.
Today there are thousands of copies of the Old Testament in it’s original Hebrew language, and there are tens of thousands of copies of the New Testament in the Greek language. Modern translators have compared these copies and produced master texts in which to translate from.
The bibles language is simple and easy to understand. God has represented invisible things by using typical representations that the mind of man can comprehend.
For example: God is a spirit, so he does not literally sit on a throne like chair in heaven. However, God expresses himself by using such symbols to convey understanding. An example is found at Daniel the seventh chapter where Daniel relates a vision.
(Daniel 7:9) “I kept on beholding until there were thrones placed and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white just like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire. 10There was a stream of fire flowing and going out from before him. There were a thousand thousands that kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand that kept standing right before him. The Court took its seat, and there were books that were opened.”
Since the Bible has been written in these down-to-earth, easily understandable terms, it is possible to translate it clearly and accurately into most languages. The original power and force of truth are preserved in all translations.
My favorite example is (Zechariah 2:8) where God says . . .” for he that is touching YOU is touching my eyeball.” That scripture shows how intensely God feels about anyone touching his people, to him it's like they are touching his eyeball. Everyone can understand how much it would bother someone to touch their eyeball. That should come though especially clear in any language!
Of course saying the bible is translated right is one thing, proving it is another. But it’s easy to prove.
Paraphrasing a free online encyclopedia, There's over 450 versions of the Bible.
Why so many versions? Because language changes over time, a good example is the above where Wikipedia talks about Old English, and Middle English.
But the point is, all you have to do is compare the various translations and you quickly see that the translations are saying the same thing, only in different words. With so many translations saying the same thing how can anyone say the bible can’t be translated correctly? For example read these translation comparisons of 1Corinthians 10:25.
New International Version (©1984)
Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience,
New Living Translation (©2007)
So you may eat any meat that is sold in the marketplace without raising questions of conscience.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake;
International Standard Version (©2008)
Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without raising any question about it on the grounds of conscience,
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Eat anything that is sold in the market without letting your conscience trouble you.
King James Bible
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
American King James Version
Whatever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
American Standard Version
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, eat, asking no question for conscience'sake,
Bible in Basic English
Whatever meat may be had at the public market, take as food without question of right or wrong;
Douay-Rheims Bible
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, eat; asking no question for conscience' sake.
Notice the older bibles use the word shambles instead of meat market. Most people today would use the word shambles to describe what their children do to their rooms. However in comparing bibles you see they are all conveying the same idea. But you do have to know what is being talked about to understand what is said.
Good day!
Last edited:
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Biblehub.com is another good sight to read the various translations.
I too have trouble reading just one and like to compare all of them.
One difference I have from most of you guys is I don't have a denomination that tells me what to do and how to believe with covenants, statements of faith, etc.
I was raised a Baptist but removed those goggles to see the Word in a Light revealed to me in a new way.
Merry Christmas!
"Holy peppermint stick Batman!"
I too have trouble reading just one and like to compare all of them.
One difference I have from most of you guys is I don't have a denomination that tells me what to do and how to believe with covenants, statements of faith, etc.
I was raised a Baptist but removed those goggles to see the Word in a Light revealed to me in a new way.
Merry Christmas!
"Holy peppermint stick Batman!"
1gr8bldr
Senior Member
It is surprising to me how long it took me to deprogram all that I had been told.
1gr8bldr
Senior Member
I would like to revisit the blood issue. There is no way that the writers ever had any idea that man would one day be able to determine blood types, compatible blood types, or imagine transfusions, or the need for transfusions. Context is everything. There will be nowhere in our bible that the context is about transfusion. It is all about ingesting blood. So how can you defend this long held tradition knowing that the context does not support this? I think I said it, "long held tradition". So anything outside of context is pure speculation.
NE GA Pappy
Mr. Pappy
You will not get him to discuss the blood issue any more with you. As he said in an earlier post, "Thus I’m not going to be in engaging in discussions about whether our beliefs are right or wrong with people that have already made up their mind. Such discussions are a waste of time since they don’t change anyone’s mind and most often turn into heated arguments."
This is the dodge that JW's are taught when they can't defend their believes with scripture. The next dodge will be that he sees no reason "to cast his pearls before swine" . You see, he believes that his beliefs and thoughts are pearls of wisdom, and you and your thoughts are "swine" or unclean.
I have had this discussion with JW's in the past, and the conversation always goes through this process when they are pushed to explain a doctrine that scripture is clearly against them. Example John 1:1
This is the dodge that JW's are taught when they can't defend their believes with scripture. The next dodge will be that he sees no reason "to cast his pearls before swine" . You see, he believes that his beliefs and thoughts are pearls of wisdom, and you and your thoughts are "swine" or unclean.
I have had this discussion with JW's in the past, and the conversation always goes through this process when they are pushed to explain a doctrine that scripture is clearly against them. Example John 1:1
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
We can discuss it without him. Blood was once thought to be the genetic carrier. The Heart was once thought to be the center of one's mind.
The Bible is the Word of God. Why didn't God know? He did and only revealed to man in terms he understood of the day.
Blood has always been important in Christianity. God likes blood. Blood was sacred. Salvation took the blood of Christ.
Why blood instead of the digestive system or brain activity?
Life takes more than blood yet back in the day they understood if you drain the blood out of something it dies.
Death could come just as easily if you took all of the water out of the living being.
Yet blood was the all important part that we associate life with.
God knew that one day man would give each other blood and body parts. When the Bible was written he didn't inform his scribes about this and other new world discoveries, letting us learn as we go.
Just another reason to move past works and discover grace.
