Killing deer not on Camera?

[sea trout]

On 1600 acres I would think you should have plenty of 4 yr olds. Maybe a 5 or two.
I take great pride in finding big deer. I have people tell me all the time that they have no big deer. It usually isnt true.
There is a huge difference in what lives there 10 months of the year and what lives there in October and November though.

Early season and right now is the time to kill a big deer if he calls your property home.
Oct. and Nov is tough.

Right
I'm sure we have plenty of mature deer on the property
I just don't understand why if they are left alone, and eat food plot, eat at broadcast feeders, and eat under water oaks for 3 years not being shot at or bothered.... why don't they continue to eat at those places when they are older?

 

[bigchiefchoctaw]

Most young bucks will
Leave the property in search of there own home area. I would say unless one of the younger ones becomes the dominate buck in your area. The older mature bucks will push the others off.. or some will die of fighting.. the ones they stay generally will either submit to the older deer and stay away when he is around.. when it comes to mature deer once the rutt gets close they are gonna fight and run others off. Not gonna let the others infringe on his does or core area..

 

[Rebel 3]

That’s awesome , and a heck of a buck!!!! When I talk about scoring I use gross , net is just dumb to me and you might have already told us and missed it but what county ?

The bigger one of the 3 in the pictures was near Perry, the other 2 really close to Athens.

 

[Nicodemus]

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[flatwoods]

Right
I'm sure we have plenty of mature deer on the property
I just don't understand why if they are left alone, and eat food plot, eat at broadcast feeders, and eat under water oaks for 3 years not being shot at or bothered.... why don't they continue to eat at those places when they are older?

I rarely see mature deer in food plots or at feeders.

 

[flatwoods]

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One of those deer is awfully tempting Nic.
Several pics of him I think ?

 

[Nicodemus]

One of those deer is awfully tempting Nic.
Several pics of him I think ?

#6 and #8 are the same buck. All the others are different bucks. All on the same land in Lee County. I took all these pictures from the stand.

 

[Luke.Deer.Commander]

the question I've always wanted to know and understand
In the past = We see 1 and 2 year old buck easy at every stand all Oct and Nov. We'd kill a 3 yr old if it popped out. And we get the RARE glimpse of a 4yr old or older buck.
7 or 8 or more years ago we stopped shooting 3 yr olds. In hopes that we would see more mature bucks.
Well we still see dozens of young bucks, and still get the occasional rare glimpse of a mature buck.

Where do the mature bucks go if we're not shooting 1 to 3 yr old bucks? We are on 16 hundred acres!

!!!! disclaimer, all our age of bucks are fun guestimates, we don't want to get into an is it possible to be exact with age on the hoof debate. We just learn all we can and make a best guess and have fun!!!!

What’s your antlerless harvest look like?

 

[flatwoods]

#6 and #8 are the same buck. All the others are different bucks. All on the same land in Lee County. I took all these pictures from the stand.

Interesting. Not the ones I was thinking. Some good deer there.
6 I wouldnt think about. 8 looks good. They always look bigger going away.

 

[sea trout]

What’s your antlerless harvest look like?

I'm gonna say 8 to 10.
May be slight less some years slight more others

 

[sea trout]

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Beautiful bucks look VERY healthy and big!!

 

[Luke.Deer.Commander]

I'm gonna say 8 to 10.
May be slight less some years slight more others

I’d imagine that is extremely low for the amount of acreage you have.

Hard to say without a survey.

 

[sea trout]

I’d imagine that is extremely low for the amount of acreage you have.

Hard to say without a survey.

I don't know I'm no expert. But we see a close ratio of antlered to antlerless deer every fall. And we see lots of fawns/weanlings, (whatever they're being called now). Our non expert logic is to watch does over food sources and when they come in heat the old mature bucks will come get them. So a lot of does is good using that logic. But like I said, we see the same thing year after year, many young bucks and many does and many fawns at feeding areas. But years of not shooting young bucks SEEMS to not be producing MORE mature bucks. As far as we can see while hunting, and on trail cams.

 

[sea trout]

I’d imagine that is extremely low for the amount of acreage you have.

Hard to say without a survey.

Now I'm curious as to what you feel the negatives may be as far as our low doe harvest and not seeing more mature bucks

 

[bigchiefchoctaw]

From what I know. You want the deer to be healthy not just a certain buck to doe ratio. The carrying capacity of the land depends on cover available food sources. That includes native browse timber management etc… to open sunlight to ground exposure for more natural browse. From what I recall in ga native browse provided around 700 pounds and acre. There are many variables that would go into that number. Trail camera survey determines the buck to doe ratio and amount of deer per square mile, fawn recruitment etc.. you also have to do jaw bones and live weights on all animals killed. This will tell you your age structure that you are harvesting and what health your deer are in. That will give you estimated harvest estimates based on your goals and how to reach those goals either burning thinning more food plots protein feed etc. you simply can’t feed your way to your goals. As far as why you aren’t seeing older age class bucks. There are so many variables to that. Could be deer are leaving for there own home ranges getting killed by your neighbors poaching etc… to say for certain it’s hard to say. I doubt it is one thing but more a combination of things.. is this land a timber lease or private ?

 

[Luke.Deer.Commander]

Higher deer densities tend to favor more antlerless deer and what you “see” from the stand may not be true statistically. You may feel your ratios are close but may be further off than you may think.

More does doesn’t mean more does for mature bucks to come out and find in your green field or corn pile. More does means more accessible does in areas closer to buck bedding which means smaller home ranges of mature bucks.

I know everyone sees the studies every year showing of deer traveling long distance. That does happen but o think it’s more rare than it may seem sometimes.

Doe groups will keep mature bucks pushed away most of the year.

 

[sea trout]

More does doesn’t mean more does for mature bucks to come out and find in your green field or corn pile. More does means more accessible does in areas closer to buck bedding which means smaller home ranges of mature bucks.

This is the part I'd like to learn more about.

 

[Nicodemus]

Beautiful bucks look VERY healthy and big!!

They are. Couple of those I wish I had killed now. But, no regrets. I like to think I`m a better person than that.

 

[sea trout]

bigchief it's a private timber investment property. All pine, different plots are different ages and cutting stages. Only hardwood is in EPA drainage ditches. We've located some water oaks in these drains that produce good mast just about every year. The white oak in the drains produce once a millinea it seems

 

[sea trout]

They are. Couple of those I wish I had killed now. But, no regrets. I like to think I`m a better person than that.

Yes that bottom pic looks like a big mature man, You must already have many good'uns under your belt if you can let him walk