Looking at an older home

SarahFair

Senior Member
I was looking at a house back in November on the same street as this one.
The house sold for $133,000 and I think was originally listed for $140 and dropped to $136.

We couldnt get our house on the market in time and it sold a few months ago.

We are about 2 weeks out from putting ours on the market and need to find something asap.
There is one down the street from the original house I liked that I like as well.
It needs a TON of work though.
It was built in 1909.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/236-Boulevard-Monroe-GA-30655/49895123_zpid/

The yard seems a little smaller but it has a detached garage and a green house. This house is also 300+/- sqft larger.
Its downstairs 1/2 bath and laundry are newer additions to the house, there is no 2nd floor above this area.
I noticed a quarter of the flooring, closest to the outside, slopes off a little to the side, something I can live with..

Heres a little diagram I whipped up.
B%20house_zps6wkpthme.jpg


And here is a photobucket album of a few things I took pictures of
http://s276.photobucket.com/user/Faircloth9945/library/B house?sort=3&page=1

From the outside the house looks okay. The front porch banisters have some rot, the covered porch ceiling looks questionable (its the picture of the blue ceiling in the photo album), and the outside windows will need stripping and repainting but does not seem to be soft and rotting.
Inside needs help, especially upstairs.

It looks as though the upstairs shower leaked at some point. The damage must have been pretty extensive because the original floor in the upstairs hallway has been replaced with the same linoleum that is in the bathroom.
My biggest fear is the stairs and if the water got down in the stairway.
Coming up the stairs you meet a wall which on the other side is the shower.
There is a rectangle that was cut out of the wall and screwed back in. I image this was done to inspect the plumbing to the shower.
If you are downstairs and looking up at the stairs you can see a crack coming down from the stairs and one that runs along the opening. Its thin, but it does run till the closet under the stairs starts. I dont know if this is normal due to settlement or if its because of the leak.
20160605_134042_zpsfgijlour.jpg


Right in front of the tub is a "soft spot". You can feel the floor give when you step on it. In the picture youll notice a blued area on the linoleum.
If youre standing right below the area downstairs you can see the ceiling has rot, but this is the only place down stairs you can see damage.
20160605_134210_zpsdq0hyeka.jpg

20160605_143224_zpst03ty1op.jpg


This is the plumbing system inside. Its located in the "electric" room.
20160605_133829_zpsgbuvn2hm.jpg



As far as the rest of the plumbing there is no polybutylene in the house.
The only copper I saw was under the kitchen sink, the rest looked as though it had been replaced.
20160605_133306_zpsz0dmpdvf.jpg



As far as the electrical, it looks like it has been updated.
Theres a few old plugs here and there, but there is also newer plugs as well.
There is old knob and tube up in the attic (pictures of it), but I guess that would be normal to disconnect it and leave it there.

The attic had some natural light coming in from it, then a tote sitting under it. I have no idea what it was. A leaky sky light would be my guess

There seems to be a weird issue with one of the walls in the bedroom as well.
The whole house is dry wall, not plaster.
I dont know if it settlement, a sloppy dry wall job, but I did notice above the window the ceiling looked as though it had been cut out and patched back. The whole upstairs was not your smooth ceiling like downstairs. It was the stippled ceiling, so Im guessing at some point this was replaced?


The roof is 14 years old and looks like it needs replacing, the upstairs heating system is 14 years old, both AC systems are 14 years old (the outside units look older, imo).
The downstairs heating system is only a few years old.


The listing agent is actually renting the house out right now.
MY realtor said the house has only been on the market since January, but I know this is not true because this house was on the market and sitting empty when I was looking at the other house down the street back in November, but under a different agent.
Zillow says the house has been on and off the market for over a year, with no price changes, yet my realtor says you cant trust Zillow because they will manipulate information. I know their Zestimates are more like guesstimates, but how can they manipulate how long the house has been listed on their website?

She said the listing realtor told her the owners (whom I believe lives out of state) are extremely motivated to sell. When I asked my realtor what she thought realistically we could offer she said, "If they were to pay closing costs, $137,000, if not $132,000"

She said the house sold for $97,000 around 2007 and was listed sometime after for over $200,000. I cant remember if she said it sold at that price or not, but now its listed at $145,000.

Looking at the tax maps Im not seeing any kind of sale for this house.
It says Sale Date - 00/00/0000 -- Sale Price - $0 -- Reason -- Unqualified Sale -- No Grantor but has a grantee.
Which leads me to believe whom ever owns this house (they live in NC) has owned it since before they started keeping online records.


Im not sure if my realtor just didnt really check far enough into the house (she was doing everything via phone right in front of me) to give a good estimated offer, or if shes looking out for her commission.


All and all, repair wise Im thinking $40,000-$50,000 for things I can see, add in another $10,000 because that just happens
This is fixing the upstairs floor, bathroom remodel, new ACs, new gas heating system, roof, painting exterior windows etc...

Then there is doing things that I would personally like to cosmetically change, ie: New counter tops, new kitchen floor, repaint the whole house (which I can do myself, but that can still add in a few $$) that would bring the $50-60k up even higher..


Im thinking around $95-$100k would be a fair price.
Thats about $47 a sqft
The house down the street sold for $73 per sqft and like I said, didnt need a quarter of the work this one did..
Similar aged houses that are remodeled have sold for $70-84sqft but most of these are your huge 5br 2500+sqft homes.
Ones in this shape have sold from $12-$50/sqft.


Is there anything major that would make yall run for the hills or do yall think this is all manageable issues, if you could buy the house low enough to invest some money into it.
I dont mind a fixer upper, but I dont want a money pit either...
 

PappyHoel

Senior Member
I think a certified home inspector is called for here. It would be $500 well spent. The guy I used typed a detailed report with pictures and references. He gave a risk assessment of fixing vs not. Unless you're sold as is and don't want to spend $.

I've never bought an older home so take my next comment with a grain of salt. Every HGTV flip it episode (older homes) I've seen involves rewiring, plumbing, foundational, termite, roof, or original code violation, costing thousands extra. I see you've taken that into account which is realistic.
 

SarahFair

Senior Member
We would DEFINITELY get a home inspection, theres no way no how wed buy any house without one.

I know older homes come with the out of date obstacles, but this one also comes with a leaky pipe issue on a 2nd floor
 

T-N-T

Senior Member
I think you are being much more realistic than a lot of people would be.
The sellers will tell you that your numbers are "crazy high" but they are not.
If they are "motivated", shoot them a 90K offer. If they counter, then you will know how motivated they are. If they come off their price a lot or a little.
If they don't counter, then they think their house is worth "way more" than what you offer. Then offer 95 or 100. If they still don't counter, then they are not motivated and are waiting on someone to give "top dollar" for their project house.

Just remember the number one rule in real estate- DONT get emotional or you will pay too much.
 

westcobbdog

Senior Member
That one is gonna have some issues. make sure you double what you think could be wrong...what you can't see or what an inspection can't reveal.

Termites reside there or have recently, so get a "termidor" treatment to get rid of them, and structure the deal where the Seller pays for this. Verbiage like " all parties agree Seller agrees to hire a licensed pest control operator to treat any active infestation with Termidor"

Mike Ambrose with Inspect Right may be someone to call...he has done over 10k inspections.

Sarah with 2 kids and husband that would be a lot of potty flushes..so be super wary if on a septic tank, too. Hoping its on sewer.
 

westcobbdog

Senior Member
I think you are being much more realistic than a lot of people would be.
The sellers will tell you that your numbers are "crazy high" but they are not.
If they are "motivated", shoot them a 90K offer. If they counter, then you will know how motivated they are. If they come off their price a lot or a little.
If they don't counter, then they think their house is worth "way more" than what you offer. Then offer 95 or 100. If they still don't counter, then they are not motivated and are waiting on someone to give "top dollar" for their project house.

Just remember the number one rule in real estate- DONT get emotional or you will pay too much.

No Toph the number one rule is to get the best Buyers Agent rep you can find...and its free to the Buyer.
 

SarahFair

Senior Member
That one is gonna have some issues. make sure you double what you think could be wrong...what you can't see or what an inspection can't reveal.

Termites reside there or have recently, so get a "termidor" treatment to get rid of them, and structure the deal where the Seller pays for this. Verbiage like " all parties agree Seller agrees to hire a licensed pest control operator to treat any active infestation with Termidor"

Mike Ambrose with Inspect Right may be someone to call...he has done over 10k inspections.

Sarah with 2 kids and husband that would be a lot of potty flushes..so be super wary if on a septic tank, too. Hoping its on sewer.

Where did you see termite residue?

It is on sewer
 

Eric24

Member
Among some of the issues you have brought up and others, from the pics I can tell you will need more insulation in the attic, missing discharge pipe for the TPR valve on the water heater. I didn't see any PB piping from the pics, you will see PB2110 on the pipes if you have it. Even thought the electrical outlets have the ground wire on the cover plates does not mean the electric has been updated, might want to check that out.

Wood decay around the trim outside isn't a huge issue (unless it is allowing moisture into the residence). Wood decay in the flooring around the tub is a concern. Also, you may need a IAQ (Indoor Air Quality/Mold) test. I would make sure they have thermal imagery when the inspect the residence for active moisture as well.

Lead paint???

Trying to go off of memory what I saw and read in you Post...
 

Eric24

Member
Depending on the year of the water heater you should add a thermal expansion tank.

The pic of the guest bath pedestal sink, appears the short pipe might be PB2110 (Polybuteleyne)...I would check it out. Short pipes are easy to replace and pretty cheap.

The gas meter outside is locked/pinned which is normal for an empty house.

Is all the glazing for the windows in good shape?

Not sure if you said, is it on a crawl?
 

SarahFair

Senior Member
It is on a crawl. I didnt go under bc its tight but from what I could see it was dry.

The sellers report said there was no polyb in the house..

Not sure of lead paint but I know its a hassle to get removed
 

notnksnemor

The Great and Powerful Oz
Are the interior walls lath and plaster?
 

Havana Dude

Senior Member
They're asking way too much for this house. Make a lowball offer with home inspection to back it up, that is if you really want the house. Myself, I would walk away and not waste the money on an inspection. You're looking at 200k+ for a 110 year old house that needs tons of work done. I don't see you ever recouping your investment. Just my thoughts.
 

cullyhog

Senior Member
Older houses had lead paint and possibly asbestos in the linoleum floors. Most of the time they laid new floors over old. Be sure to have inspector check for those things. Not sure about lead pipe on old sewer line.
 

SarahFair

Senior Member
The walls are all drywall. I didnt see plaster anywhere.
I think the linoleum is new enough that it wouldnt contain asbestos
The kitchen floor sat up in a way that I think there are actually hardwoods underneath them.

I think the tax records indicate the back addition on the house (the 1/2 bath and laundry room) was built in 2002.
Im thinking the leak would have had to of happen sometime after that due to it being visible in the new addition and prompting the floor upstairs to be changed out.


The more I think about it the more I want to extreme low ball. Like offer 40-50% asking price.
50% leaves me at $72,500
+ A 20% down payment

Closing Costs - $5,000.00
Rewire House - $15,000.00
Replumb House - $15,000.00
New Roof - $10,000.00
New Ac Units - $10,000.00
New Heating System - 3,500.00
New Upstairs Floor - $5,000.00
New Kitchen Floor - $3,000.00
New Appliances - $3,000.00
Lead Paint Removal and Repaint - $3,000.00
Paint for inside - $800.00
New Installation - $5,000.00
New Counter Tops - $3,000.00
New Kitchen Cabinets - $5,000.00
Misc - $5,000.00

This all puts me in right under $170,000
Which I could see the house being worth that.. :huh:
Maybe Im still missing something or underestimating a cost though..

Im guessing the low ball offer getting accepted is going to rely heavily on how much the people owe on the house as well.
 

rjcruiser

Senior Member
The prior tax records that you show...seems like it is a refinance....or a change in who is on the title, with no price changing. Lots of those types of records in the tax digest.

With that being said, your timing for selling your house is better...but as far as buying, you're about 6-10 months too late. It seems as thought the Walton Co/Morgan Co/Newton Co real estate prices starting ticking up in Jan/Feb. Homes/property that had been on the market for months/years is now selling and prices are increasing. The Baxalta plant...the new reservoir...the new megasite in Social Circle....all of this is pointing to increased home prices.

I have no idea as to what all it needs, but I don't think you'll get them down where you want them to be at. You could always offer more, knowing that things will be brought up at the home inspection and then ask them to cover those items.
 

PappyHoel

Senior Member
Couldn't you get in a nice newer home for $170k move in ready?
 

SarahFair

Senior Member
The house has been on the market for a year and the seller is "extremely motivated".
:huh:
Throwing a low ball price couldn't hurt, no?



Couldn't you get in a nice newer home for $170k move in ready?
I don't like nice and new though.
Cookie cutter homes is what I'm trying to avoid..
 

PappyHoel

Senior Member
The house has been on the market for a year and the seller is "extremely motivated".
:huh:
Throwing a low ball price couldn't hurt, no?




I don't like nice and new though.
Cookie cutter homes is what I'm trying to avoid..

That's the rub I see. Me I'm risk adverse:)
 

Jim Baker

Moderator
Staff member
Couldn't you get in a nice newer home for $170k move in ready?

Yep! Voice of experience here. I moved into a house built in 1903. Had been extensively remodeled cosmetically. To the eye it was gorgeous.

Right off the bat we had to have the AC duct reworked and the returns moved to keep from freezing in one room and burning up in another and the reverse in summer. Had to replace much of the old water pipes. Had to install additional water heater closer to the baths. Gave up closet space for that. Had to pull new wiring to replace squirrel damage in the attics. Had to put up expanding metal screens over four gable vents. It had a flat roof over the add on laundry room and a bath. Had to repair that twice before we got the leak stopped. The water supply line from the city meter was iron pipe. It ruptured under the house from rust. Had to installed a new external electric shut off and meter base because the old and I mean old meter base began to arc almost setting the house on fire. This was in the span of 4 years.

And then there were the electricity and nat gas bills. We buit a new home with pretty much the same footage. Energy costs between well insulated modern home and the old house were 50% less in the new home.

Then there were the surrounding homes that began to change hands and the values began to fall.
 

NE GA Pappy

Mr. Pappy
The house has been on the market for a year and the seller is "extremely motivated".
:huh:
Throwing a low ball price couldn't hurt, no?




I don't like nice and new though.
Cookie cutter homes is what I'm trying to avoid..

then don't build a cookie cutter house. Build what you want.

I don't honestly see how you can get into this house for the money you are seeing. If it has lead paint, 3k won't come close to covering the cost to remove. What kind of siding is on the house. A lot of the older homes have asbestos siding also.
 

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