Near death experience

[oldfella1962]

@WaltL1 I have to ask, if you were on your death bed, suffering in torment knowing that the time is near. Will you or would you reach out to a higher power, a God, THE God?

I can't speak for Walt nor anybody else, but if I may opine: Unless my brain was going haywire to the point where my personality changed, I would not cry out to a higher power unless a higher power revealed itself to me and met my own personal standard of evidence. If I'm conscious and in torment, I would cry out for morphine or some other high-octane pain killer like I do every other time I'm in severe pain.

 

[WaltL1]

I can't speak for Walt nor anybody else, but if I may opine: Unless my brain was going haywire to the point where my personality changed, I would not cry out to a higher power unless a higher power revealed itself to me and met my own personal standard of evidence. If I'm conscious and in torment, I would cry out for morphine or some other high-octane pain killer like I do every other time I'm in severe pain.

Between the morphine drip and all the chemicals your brain will be pumping out, it may just be one heck of a ride

 

[oldfella1962]

Between the morphine drip and all the chemicals your brain will be pumping out, it may just be one heck of a ride

 

[WaltL1]

@WaltL1 I have to ask, if you were on your death bed, suffering in torment knowing that the time is near. Will you or would you reach out to a higher power, a God, THE God?

J_SEPH, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this question -

What if I was calm, ready to go, and at peace that I was going to pass away?

Reason being is that your entire premise is based on fear. At the time of death I'm supposed to be so scared that I will turn to the Christian God to save me from the horror.
What happens if you take away the fear?

 

[oldfella1962]

J_SEPH, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this question -

Reason being is that your entire premise is based on fear. At the time of death I'm supposed to be so scared that I will turn to the Christian God to save me from the horror.
What happens if you take away the fear?

I see different levels & aspects at play. I need clarification on J sephs question. Is somebody in physical agony as they die, and they will cry out to a god or gods (that they believe is the one true god whether they are Christian, Hindu, African folk religion, etcetera) to ease their physical pain? Are they crying out because they are afraid of dying and what may happen in the afterlife? This is assuming that their religion even posits an afterlife or that this afterlife involved reward or punishment.

I will use myself as an example: I don't believe in the God of the Bible. There could be a "god", but I would posit that eternal torture is so over-the-top evil that only humans could have invented it. So "fear" of death would be off the table for me. But if I were in intense physical pain as I died, who knows how desperate I might be and what I would do to end the suffering?

 

[ambush80]

I see different levels & aspects at play. I need clarification on J sephs question. Is somebody in physical agony as they die, and they will cry out to a god or gods (that they believe is the one true god whether they are Christian, Hindu, African folk religion, etcetera) to ease their physical pain? Are they crying out because they are afraid of dying and what may happen in the afterlife? This is assuming that their religion even posits an afterlife or that this afterlife involved reward or punishment.

I will use myself as an example: I don't believe in the God of the Bible. There could be a "god", but I would posit that eternal torture is so over-the-top evil that only humans could have invented it. So "fear" of death would be off the table for me. But if I were in intense physical pain as I died, who knows how desperate I might be and what I would do to end the suffering?

What if you called out to all the Gods and Demons to end your suffering and upon your invocation of the name Bael, your pain miraculously goes away. Would you say "Give me back the pain!!!"

 

[WaltL1]

I see different levels & aspects at play. I need clarification on J sephs question. Is somebody in physical agony as they die, and they will cry out to a god or gods (that they believe is the one true god whether they are Christian, Hindu, African folk religion, etcetera) to ease their physical pain? Are they crying out because they are afraid of dying and what may happen in the afterlife? This is assuming that their religion even posits an afterlife or that this afterlife involved reward or punishment.

I will use myself as an example: I don't believe in the God of the Bible. There could be a "god", but I would posit that eternal torture is so over-the-top evil that only humans could have invented it. So "fear" of death would be off the table for me. But if I were in intense physical pain as I died, who knows how desperate I might be and what I would do to end the suffering?

But if I were in intense physical pain as I died, who knows how desperate I might be and what I would do to end the suffering?

Exactly.
And crying out to a god doesnt mean you all of a sudden believe in that god, you just want out of pain and are covering all the bases just in case.
Seems like a god would know you are just looking for a way out of pain not actually worshipping him.
When I hit my thumb with a hammer, the first words out of my mouth usually start with God_________. Doesnt mean I believe.

 

[WaltL1]

What if you called out to all the Gods and Demons to end your suffering and upon your invocation of the name Bael, your pain miraculously goes away. Would you say "Give me back the pain!!!"

On the flip side if your pain miraculously goes away, you might have just died.

 

[oldfella1962]

What if you called out to all the Gods and Demons to end your suffering and upon your invocation of the name Bael, your pain miraculously goes away. Would you say "Give me back the pain!!!"

Good question! I don't know which god Bael is, so maybe I should prepare a list of all currently worshipped gods and carry it with me in case I get hospitalized.

 

[oldfella1962]

On the flip side if your pain miraculously goes away, you might have just died.

That's turning lemons into lemonade!

 

[ambush80]

On the flip side if your pain miraculously goes away, you might have just died.

I was trying to imply that you lived, maybe even miraculously healed.

 

[ambush80]

Good question! I don't know which god Bael is, so maybe I should prepare a list of all currently worshipped gods and carry it with me in case I get hospitalized.

Start with Crom.

 

[bullethead]

I watched my MIL (a very religious catholic) dying from stomach cancer. She was very patient , thorough and had good points and explanations with her Aplogetic replies to me in conversations that we've had over all of the years I've been her son in law. She was very pro God and convinced that death wouldn't be difficult for or to a true believer in Jesus.
In her final days confined to her bed literally withering away, she had moments of extreme clarity and times when she would seemingly be talking to people who were not there.
I have to believe that the cancer spreading to her brain, along with the serious medication that she was on for pain were absolutely contributing factors as to who or what she was talking to. But I honestly do believe that in her mind she was talking to someone and saying what she wanted to say. I have no idea about anny specifics of what answers she may have been hearing, but I will say that whether or not what she was hearing was also a figment of her mind or if she was tetering between two different realms....her replies and statements definitely incidcated that she was not satisfied with what she was hearing or that any entity was willing to help her out and ease her suffering for being a dedicated believer and follower. Basically, at times, she was very upset that her devotion didn't do a thing to help her ease of passing. She questioned why the pain was so severe and no mercy was given.
I had a very good relationship with my MIL.
I actually prayed to whoever could possibly be listening to please end her suffering. Over a weeks timeline I could technically say that it was eventually answered. But her struggle in between wasn't like witnessing anything to do with a peaceful transfer of a worldy life to entering a white soothing light
of spiritual life.

Edited to add,
Basically what I witnessed was someone who had very preconceived notions and expectations of what death "should" be like when a God is said to be involved in the life and death of a follower.
It did not seem that she was experiencing anything glorious or comforting.

 

[WaltL1]

I was trying to imply that you lived, maybe even miraculously healed.

Yeah I got that part. I was trying to be clever. Obvious FAIL

 

[WaltL1]

Start with Crom.

 

[ambush80]

Yes. That guy!!!!!

 

[ambush80]

Yeah I got that part. I was trying to be clever. Obvious FAIL

Almost.....maybe it was your delivery

 

[Madman]

No, I didn’t have one nor do I want to. When my time comes, I want to be like the deer or squirrel that dies from a perfectly placed headshot, breathing one second and dead as dirt the next.

I was having a discussion with my daughter and she raised an interesting question. When folks say they had a NDE and got a glimpse of heaven, why does no one ever say they got a glimpse of the hot place, satan, the lake of fire and eternal suffering, etc? Having seen this, they then return to life full of repent and become the most devout Christian ever so they know they won’t end up in the hot place. Seems like it would be a good motivator to bring people to church.

Can’t post the link because they name the hot place. Jan 5 episode of Jimmy Akin’s Mysterious World podcast has an interesting take.

“Many reports of near-death experiences sound positive and uplifting and blissful. Jimmy Akin and Dom Bettinelli discuss those that are reported as distinctly negative and distressing. What happens in them, what do they mean, and what are their implications?”

 

[oldfella1962]

Can’t post the link because they name the hot place. Jan 5 episode of Jimmy Akin’s Mysterious World podcast has an interesting take.

“Many reports of near-death experiences sound positive and uplifting and blissful. Jimmy Akin and Dom Bettinelli discuss those that are reported as distinctly negative and distressing. What happens in them, what do they mean, and what are their implications?”

Yes I think that "the hot place" or some equivalent of it would be a theme in NDE's because NDE's are IMHO random similar to how dreams are random - we generally can't choose what we dream about. But I would like to hear the stories and see any data from NDE's across the entire planet - from many different cultures/religions in other words - to find out how often different cultures have very negative/scary NDE's. A couple of weeks ago in my internet research I found out that many of the different religions across the planet do not posit an eternal heaven nor "hot place" when we pass away.
The Abrahamic religions - specifically Christianity & Islam which so happen to be the two largest religions on the planet - are the religions that really lean hard into the heaven & hot place/worship or be tortured mindset. Ergo I am suspecting that followers of Christianity & Islam would be much more likely to have an NDE involving either heaven and/or the hot place because these concepts are thought about - even if subconsciously - much more often than would be the case for followers of religions with a different dogma. If anybody here has already provided a link to such studies and I forgot (sorry about my suboptimal memory) please post the link again. Caveat I don't listen to "podcasts" on a smart phone while I'm driving or exercising or whatever, but I do "watch" them sometimes when there is a you tube version of a podcast.

 

[ambush80]

Can’t post the link because they name the hot place. Jan 5 episode of Jimmy Akin’s Mysterious World podcast has an interesting take.

“Many reports of near-death experiences sound positive and uplifting and blissful. Jimmy Akin and Dom Bettinelli discuss those that are reported as distinctly negative and distressing. What happens in them, what do they mean, and what are their implications?”

I'll have to check that out. If DMT has anything to do with NDE's, I'm sure some people have had "bad trips".