Observations from recent carbine courses......

cmshoot

Senior Member
The more carbine courses I teach, the more malfunctions I see with AR-type platforms. It used to be fairly uncommon, but now it's a regular thing. I'm not talking a once-in-a-while issue with a bad round or old magazine; I'm talking of repeated stoppages or guns that just quit running.

The more "advanced" the course I'm teaching is, the more issues I see. In "beginners" courses I don't tend to see as many issues.

A. From inspecting problematic AR's and talking to their owners, I've noticed a few trends. In general, the guns that I see that have serious issues are either:

1. Owner-assembled. That is, they bought a kit or parts and assembled it themselves.

2. A factory gun that has had numerous parts of the operating system replaced and/or modified.

I am not saying that you can't build an AR yourself and have it run perfectly. I have many students that do that and have no issues at all.......but obviously not everyone is up to the challenge, or some folks bought some inferior parts.

I'll see a student running a good gun, like a recent guy with a Daniel Defense. When it doesn't run, I start to ask him about it and find that he's swapped out parts like the buffer, buffer spring and BCG. When asked why, all he could say was he was talking to some 3-gunners and they recommended it. I asked if the gun was running fine before the "upgrades" and he said it was. Hmmmmm......then why "fix" it.

Caveat: I'm not knocking 3-gunners or any other competitive shooters. I'm a competitive shooters myself and highly recommend it to folks. It has improved numerous skill sets of mine.......but, know what belongs in the training arena and what belongs "on the street".

If you modify a firearm that you intend to use for "serious" work, test it out thoroughly before putting it back into service. If you are looking at performing a modification, have a dang good reason for doing so. Don't fix what ain't broke.

I see less problems in beginners' courses but the students haven't learned to mess with their guns yet! At least, that's my theory.

B. Steel case ammo: I've got no problem with it for training ammo. It's cheap, which means you can afford to practice more. It's not nearly as reliable as "good" brass-case ammo, which I also like in my training ammo as it forces you to practice malfunction clearance drills. That's good stuff as well.

Steel cases don't swell and fill the chamber like brass cases, so fouling tends to blow back around the casing and foul the chamber more. During high round count range sessions, or multi-day training courses, you will need to clean that chamber out or you will eventually have issues. When you break for lunch, run a Boresnake through her a few time. At the end of Day 1, if there will be a Day 2, give the chamber and bolt a quick cleaning.

I would not recommend using steel case ammo as your "serious load" for realsies.

3. Lube well. I don't care what lube you use, I've never seen a malfunction caused by the type of lube used (except 1, see below), but I have seen them caused by little to no lube used.

General rule of thumb: Grease parts that slide/rub and oil parts that rotate. With that said, you can use all grease or all oil and she'll still run.

The only malfunction I've seen caused by lube was a guy that was running graphite. Just don't. The guy using it didn't know better and was told to use it by a Navy Seal/Force Recon/Ranger/Spook who said that grease/oil will attract grit and gun up the action. Well, I'm here to tell you, graphite is very fine grit. Just do not.

Oil and grease can hold grit, but as long as it's held in suspension the gun will run. A wet AR is a happy AR.

I have never in all my 26 years as a gun toter and Instructor seen a firearm malfunction due to "too much" lube. Better too much than too little.

Anyways, thought I'd throw some of this out there. I'he got another AR course coming up that I'm teaching.......we'll see if the trend continues!

Semper Fi!
 
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FlipKing

Senior Member
Appreciate the info. My gun runs a little overgassed, but it doesn't seem to affect anything. May leave it be.
 

FlipKing

Senior Member
That's true! It'll sling brass about 10ft back at 5 o'clock. Made the mistake of standing on the right side of my brother when he shot it. Got hit right in the face. Lol
 

cmshoot

Senior Member
Used CLP for years because it was free. Worked very well, I never had any issues with it.

Then I used Tetra for a while because I was given some free samples. Also worked well. After that it was Slip, again cuz it was free and worked very well. Then it was FP-10........cuz the Feds issued it to me in gallon jugs. Then it was everything under the sun as I was given freebies and used them......they all worked very well.

I was running out of freebies and made up a batch of "homemade lube" that I really like. I've received more freebies in the meantime, but since I mixed up a gallon of the stuff and it was working very well, I've continued to use it. Latest freebie I got was BoltLube. I keep a bigger bottle and gave all the small ones away to my students in my last carbine class.

I don't tout any single product but every one I have ever used worked just fine. For an AR, run it wet and, if everything is good n' proper mechanically, she'll run like a champ. Can't count how many times in a class I've had a student's carbine choke due to not enough lube as the day went along. I'd break it down, throw a bunch of oil on top of the crud, cycle vigorously by hand to distribute, and she'd start running perfectly.

If "high temp" in a grease is important to you, try MD Labs XF-7. I saw a test where they tried to melt it with a blow torch and all it did was glisten a bit. When developed they tested it on propellor bearings on tugboats in San Francisco Bay. I've used it off and on for years and works very well.....not any better than anything else I've used, but very well.
 

Dub

Senior Member
Great posts, Cmshoot.

I always get a lot from your insight and enjoy seeing your take on things.


I look around at my buddies who are into AR's. What you said about the "advanced" guys seems to ring true. They are all about replacing one part for another and customizing their gear. It's almost like we all grew up.....but still play with Lego kits. :rofl:
 

cmshoot

Senior Member
It's awfully tempting, especially when you buy a magazine like RECOIL and they have $4000 decked out M4's on the cover. Gotta look sexy!

Life's too short to shoot ugly guns.......unless you're into Glocks.
 

jmoser

Senior Member
Competition vs Duty / Service are very very different animals.

I have a lot of heavily modified target guns that I would never dream of making the same mods to on a service gun. But for all mods reliability is the key; need 200 rds at least of continuous firing to test reliability after making any mods.

And I don't clean my target guns until I have a malfunction. Might be many many hundreds of rounds or maybe thousands on a .22. I'll clean chambers and lube the heck out of them in the spots I can access but don't strip them down unless needed.

I have a Walther GSP in .32; fired maybe 2000 rds before I had a FTF on slow fire. Drop of oil on the next cartridge case got me thru that match. Then I tore it down for a full cleaning. Of course that load is 1.4 grs of a very clean burning powder; keeps the residue to a minimum!

I treat my carry / hunting / defense guns very differently but any change to a recoil spring or gas system part warrants reliability testing as you have seen from the OP.
 

guesswho

Senior Member
Lube is mine friend. I always get laughed at when I fire those first few rounds on the range. It tends to smoke a bit till it warms up after a couple of rounds. However Ive never had a failure. Where as Ive seen numerous Colts and RRA fail and had to do the same. Go to my trunk and get some oil out. That seemed to fix it. I think some of the issues is using no name parts from no name suppliers when assembling these rifles.
 
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