Should hunting dates be changed for the very extreme SW counties

[Gone Fishin]

Two years ago I started hunting in eastern Early county, near Damascus (Prop #2). The rut is mid December.
I also have another small place that I hunt between Valdosta and Mountrie (Prop #1). There the rut is mid November.

As of today (9/22/21):
- Prop #1 = the fawns on trail camera are free of spots
- Prop #2 = the fawns on trail camera are very young and their spots have only begun to fade (I am concerned that these fawns may not ready to be on their own). I have seen 1 fawn that is tiny, may be 2nd rut.

Focus on Prop #2: (Early county)
12/22/20 = Breeding date (first rut)
7/10/21 = Birthing date (200 day gestation)
9/18/21 = Weaning date (70 days or 10 weeks)

9/11/21 = Start of Archery season

For those ~4-5 counties in extreme SW GA should the DNR push the archery season back ~2-3 weeks? Are we killing 2 deer for every doe killed on the weekend of 9/11?

Maybe make archery for those extreme SW GA counties bucks only until Oct, then add ~2 extra weeks of Archer only season at the end of the season to cover the 2nd rut. Currently there is no hunting for the 2nd rut in these counties. Maybe eliminate the early Mz season and push Mz Season to the 2nd rut, and give archery an extra 2 weeks after that.

If I were DNR King (thinking about it) I would: (in the extreme SW counties)
Archery = Sept 11 thru Jan 31 (Bucks only until Oct, but extend it through all of January)
Eliminate the Oct 9 Mz season
Modern Gun= Oct 16 - Jan 9
Mz Season = week of Jan 22


Just a thought........

I attached night pic of the Prop #1 fawn (Monday night), vs 2 daylight pics of the Prop #2 fawns (Friday) - 3 days difference in photos. The Prop #2 fawns are eating corn, so maybe they would be okay if the does were killed, but man are they small.

 

[Thunder Head]

You have a point.

Just my personal opinion. Nobody should "knowingly" shoot a doe that has a fawn. Back before we had coyotes. It could be a challenge to get a doe with the bow. Simply because almost all of them had fawns.

 

[catch22]

Others and I have fought this fight on this forum many times and its almost always a losing battle. You are going to hear from everyone in the rest of the state talking about how long the season is and "if you cant kill them in 3 months...blah blah blah". The fact is, most of the rest of the state gets to hunt the pre-rut, rut, and post rut...and have a secondary rut. Those of us who hunt in extreme SW Ga may get the first rut in.....maybe. But thats all.

I agree with you 100%. I have hunted pretty much the last 30 years in and around extreme SW georgia.

I would love if the season were simply backed up about 3 weeks. Start the Archery season Oct 1st and end rifle season Jan 31st (approximately). Do this for only the 3-5 counties affected.

This would solve alot of the issues you mention in your detailed post.

I have said it many times on this forum...the only thing FL gets right with their deer management is the fact that the state is broken up into several "sections". Each section having different dates to hunt. This was based on a study by FWC on breeding dates and gestation periods. GA should follow the example.

Ill wait a year and rant again

 

[lampern]

The DNR extended the archery season in some SW counties

• Extended Archery Season:

  Extended archery season has been added to the following counties: Barrow, Cherokee, Columbia, Decatur, Douglas, Fayette, Hall, Muscogee, Paulding, and Seminole.

 

[COYOTE X]

I send letters to Ga. DNR every year asking season to be pushed back two weeks. The last Saturday of September should be our opening day of Archery.

COYOTE X

 

[catch22]

The DNR extended the archery season in some SW counties

This is certainly a step in the right direction.....but as you know, not everyone archery hunts.

 

[Gone Fishin]

We have better data today than ever before. We have thousands of game cameras photos that allow us to do better calculations. Changes can be made, just have to keep pushing, and presenting data not opinions.

Why is the DNR killing fawns in Early county with poor practices? Anyone want to do an article for an outdoor magazine. Otherwise we can put one together on here and submit it to GON. I may start working on that. I will post it on here for edits.

Anyone with a high school kid looking to do a science fair project on deer/outdoors. I will help them put together data, charts, etc. I run R&D for a small med device company in Sarasota.

Someone from the DNR will read this. They pay attention to online forums. They may or may not be able to reply. But they will understand the logic and sencere concern from the hunters.

Appreciate the honest comments. People are welcome to disagree. It won't hurt my feelings and I will learn something. Maybe I am overlooking something.

 

[lampern]

The DNR deer biologist posts on this forum. He will be able to chime in.

 

[C.Killmaster]

This is certainly a step in the right direction.....but as you know, not everyone archery hunts.

DNR doesn't have the legal authority to extend rifle season beyond January 15th. We are well aware that deer breed later in deep SW Georgia, we have been collecting reproductive data in a 10-county area for the last 2 years to see exactly what's going on.

 

[catch22]

DNR doesn't have the legal authority to extend rifle season beyond January 15th. We are well aware that deer breed later in deep SW Georgia, we have been collecting reproductive data in a 10-county area for the last 2 years to see exactly what's going on.

If not DNR...then who? Who has the authority? Would there have to be a law change or legislation enacted?

Just across the imaginary state line in the deep SW GA.....Fl made changes years ago. Lord knows if Fl can do something....GA ought to be able to as well

 

[Gone Fishin]

Yeah, the seasons should coincide with the Rut map. I am not looking to kill more deer, etc. My opinion: Killing does, with fawns that aren't yet weaned, is unethical.

These are the counties that should be considered (IMO) based on the DRN website:
Gestation = 200-205 days
Weaning = 10 weeks (70) very earliest, 12-16 (84-112 days) weeks is a much better target

 

[Gone Fishin]

DNR doesn't have the legal authority to extend rifle season beyond January 15th. We are well aware that deer breed later in deep SW Georgia, we have been collecting reproductive data in a 10-county area for the last 2 years to see exactly what's going on.

See, there is something that I did NOT know. Thx for the clarification.

Then; for those counties with the rut after Dec
Can the DRN:
1) Make archery bucks only until Oct 1
2) Extend archery until the end of January

Is that within the DNR purview? That would seem to be an easy first step that could solve the questionable ethical harvest of a doe with an unweaned fawn delima.

That would take away opportunity from the archer hunter early in the season, but give them a reward with extended late season hunting.

 

[C.Killmaster]

Two years ago I started hunting in eastern Early county, near Damascus (Prop #2). The rut is mid December.
I also have another small place that I hunt between Valdosta and Mountrie (Prop #1). There the rut is mid November.

As of today (9/22/21):
- Prop #1 = the fawns on trail camera are free of spots
- Prop #2 = the fawns on trail camera are very young and their spots have only begun to fade (I am concerned that these fawns may not ready to be on their own). I have seen 1 fawn that is tiny, may be 2nd rut.

Focus on Prop #2: (Early county)
12/22/20 = Breeding date (first rut)
7/10/21 = Birthing date (200 day gestation)
9/18/21 = Weaning date (70 days or 10 weeks)

9/11/21 = Start of Archery season

For those ~4-5 counties in extreme SW GA should the DNR push the archery season back ~2-3 weeks? Are we killing 2 deer for every doe killed on the weekend of 9/11?

Maybe make archery for those extreme SW GA counties bucks only until Oct, then add ~2 extra weeks of Archer only season at the end of the season to cover the 2nd rut. Currently there is no hunting for the 2nd rut in these counties. Maybe eliminate the early Mz season and push Mz Season to the 2nd rut, and give archery an extra 2 weeks after that.

If I were DNR King (thinking about it) I would: (in the extreme SW counties)
Archery = Sept 11 thru Jan 31 (Bucks only until Oct, but extend it through all of January)
Eliminate the Oct 9 Mz season
Modern Gun= Oct 16 - Jan 9
Mz Season = week of Jan 22


Just a thought........

I attached night pic of the Prop #1 fawn (Monday night), vs 2 daylight pics of the Prop #2 fawns (Friday) - 3 days difference in photos. The Prop #2 fawns are eating corn, so maybe they would be okay if the does were killed, but man are they small.

As mentioned in the post above, we are doing a breeding study in SW Georgia to get a better assessment of what's going on.

Regarding the concern over abandoning fawns I just pulled the Game Check data from the last 2 years in the 5 most southwest counties. In 2019 only 1.7% (36 of 2130 does) of female harvest occurred before the end of September and in 2020 it was 2.5% (60 of 2438 does). I think this is mostly self-limiting, like others have said most hunters tend to avoid shooting does that have really little fawns with them.

 

[C.Killmaster]

See, there is something that I did NOT know. Thx for the clarification.

Then; for those counties with the rut after Dec
Can the DRN:
1) Make archery bucks only until Oct 1
2) Extend archery until the end of January

Is that within the DNR purview? That would seem to be an easy first step that could solve the questionable ethical harvest of a doe with an unweaned fawn delima.

That would take away opportunity from the archer hunter early in the season, but give them a reward with extended late season hunting.

Yes, both of those options DNR could change through regulation without a law change. As mentioned before, Decatur and Seminole counties were extended to January 31 for archery. We are still trying to see where to draw the line on which counties should or should not be included in any changes.

 

[C.Killmaster]

If not DNR...then who? Who has the authority? Would there have to be a law change or legislation enacted?

Just across the imaginary state line in the deep SW GA.....Fl made changes years ago. Lord knows if Fl can do something....GA ought to be able to as well

It requires a law change and we aren't going to go ask the legislature to change anything without data.

 

[catch22]

It requires a law change and we aren't going to go ask the legislature to change anything without data.

totally understand...thanks for the education.

hopefully the data that ya'll come up with matches the 30 years of data lodged in my head

 

[psedna]

I have personally discussed with several south ga legislators. There was even a petitions started year before last. I understand and respect the need for science based recommendations, but in all fairness this has been brought up multiple times over many years.

I appreciate and respect the DNR, but believe that they have been very slow to respond. Georgia as I have stated many times, is simply too diverse a state geographically to have a one size fits all season - yet our sister states have seasons based on specific factors relevant to each geographic region. So either we are very slow (even slower than Alabama - give us a break geez), or we have it right and all the other states have it wrong.

A further pet peeve of mine is that my grandkids do not get to hunt the longer school holiday weekend in mid January.

Iused to be in the stand opening day of archery season, but I dont have any desire until around October 10th - not going to shoot a doe with small fawns - period.

Please excuse my annual rant on this issue.

I believe GA DNR does an absolute fantastic job on so many areas, esp our WMA's though I do not personally hunt them; but we need to right the ship on this issue.