The Future of Georgia Hog Hunting

[JAGER]

I've read several opinions on various hog related threads this week. You have discussed origination, morals, ethics, hunting methods and even hog control. But there is one very important angle to your discussions which has been ignored. Many of you are so emotionally committed to your ethics and beliefs that you fail to logically see the big picture. Sometimes hunters are their own worst enemy.

It is the responsibility of the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) to improve agricultural productivity and contribute to the national economy by providing Federal leadership and expertise to resolve wildlife conflicts. The USDA realizes the crop damage numbers caused by feral hogs in the United States will only get bigger unless changes are made. These issues WILL negatively affect Georgia hog hunting if we don’t change our mindset.

There is one common message at all the National Conferences on farming, wildlife damage and animal control.

Hunters (both traditional and doggers) are viewed as ineffective at dealing with feral hog control issues. Hog populations are actually rising across the Nation because hunters are taking a conservation approach to this invasive species. The USDA has no alternative than to begin taking measures to effectively reduce populations and crop damage in several states.

I received a phone call last week that one of our neighboring states has become the first on the East Coast approved to use aerial gunning with a helicopter for feral hog control. I’m quite sure hog hunters in this state were given zero notice that it was even being considered. Do you think the USDA will poll Georgia hunters or give us a warning before they take action in our state? No!

Kansas and Nebraska have both passed legislation to make it illegal to hunt hogs in their state. These states blame hunters as the sole cause of the problem as many were caught illegally relocating hogs. Specifically hog dog hunters were targeted. Their “catch and tie” methods were used to capture the animals alive and start populations in other parts of the state. Large boars were transported and sold to hunting preserves. The only way Kansas and Nebraska were able to effectively deal with the spread of feral hogs was to make all hog hunting illegal and then asked the USDA to begin eradication procedures.

Do you think Kansas and Nebraska hunters were polled before they passed legislation? No!

...I can tell you that we have received more complaints from outside folks complaining about the use of dogs in hunting (any type) and our "allowance" of dog hunting threads on the forums than we could ever possibly get for thermal imaging. do yall want that to be the next to go away? cause many, many folks would rather you not use a pup to chase a pig.

I fully support every form of hog control through dog hunting, traditional hunting and trapping. It will take a combination of all methods to effectively manage the problem across the state. This is NOT a competition or a popularity contest to me. It is about doing what is right for both the future of Georgia farming and hog hunting. But we need to do a better job of policing ourselves and displaying our image to the public. In my opinion, there are three areas of responsibility which we fall short. Examples are below:

(1) “We do not kill the hogs we catch, we sell them.” “Love hunting them too much. Catch and release.” “We also tie everything we catch except the trophy boars which go to a game preserve.”

How many pictures have we posted of live hogs in a trailer? Come on guys… Do you seriously think this is the best approach to ensure your sport is passed along to future generations?

What message is this sending to the USDA and our state legislators who are worried about the transmission of pseudorabies (PRV) and swine brucellosis to domestic pork? The USDA initiated a nationwide PRV eradication program in 1989. All states were successful in reaching disease-free status for PRV in domestic hog herds during late 2004. Since PRV has been reported in feral hogs from 10 states, the USDA is ultimately concerned about spreading this virus to domestic pork again.

(2) “Only kill the hogs you can eat then leave the rest for another hunter.”

NO! NO! NO! Attitudes like this will be our ultimate downfall. These statements are the #1 reason why hunters are viewed as ineffective at dealing with feral hog control issues by the USDA. The only way to ensure hog hunting will be passed to future generations in our state is to change this thought process and stop indicating we are trying to preserve them.

What would happen if… doggers killed every hog they caught, trappers killed every hog they trapped and all other hunters harvested hogs at every available opportunity? I think we would have the following result: The state of Georgia will experience less crop damage, the hunting community will receive more admiration, the USDA will focus their efforts in other states and your children will continue to enjoy ample hog hunting in the future.

I’m not asking you to be an unethical hunter. Donate the extra meat to your church, friends or a local processor. Start a donation program in your hometown. Just consider the alternative. Do you think USDA agents recover 200-300 hogs killed from an aerial gunning mission in a helicopter?

(3) “The problem is with the farmers and landowners that will not let us hunt their land.”

No. The problem usually stems from a negative experience from another hunter. We need to figure out how to win their trust and effectively solve their problem. Some land owners are reluctant to allow hunters year-around access to their property for liability or privacy issues. Others have been burned by hunters "stocking" hogs once permission was granted.

The land owner may not want you there 30 times per year. Put his mind at ease and just ask to be on call for one day when he has a problem. Then ensure you solve his business problem and gain his trust. It is all about establishing great working relationships, treating their land better than your own and effectively protecting their investment.

Bottom Line- Feral hogs will never be eradicated in our state via hunting or trapping. Our challenge is to effectively control them to the point where agricultural damage is minimal before a politician, USDA office or state law negatively affects hog hunting in Georgia.

If you currently harvest as many hogs as possible at every available opportunity, thank you for doing the right thing. If you choose to illegally relocate feral hogs to establish new populations or replenish your free range hunting stock, you are part of the problem. This 10% will ultimately ruin the future of hunting for the rest of us. If you recognize the 10% and do nothing to change it, you are just as guilty.

This is my perspective of the situation. We can voluntarily change our approach NOW or lose our ability to make a decision LATER. The ball is in our court. I bet Kansas and Nebraska hunters wish they had another chance to decide.

---JAGER

 

[Eddy M.]

 

[Robk]

only problem I see with the aerial gunnery option is that for the most part the hogs they are looking to take out would be under thick canopy during most of the times that they would be airborne and folks in my neck of the woods would most likely shoot back if some helo was firing from above the tree line.

Just my opinion though.

Rob

 

[bull0ne]

Good post Jager.

 

[krentz]

isnt it illegal to transport live hogs in georgia?

 

[sghoghunter]

Is illegal to relocate them unless they are tested.If you have them tested and are tested negative and have the permission of the landowner it is legal to relocate.

 

[ejs1980]

Jager, We kill all of the hogs we catch unless the landowner has other plans. I don't own a stock trailer and have no need for one. I do wish there was somewhere here to take wild hogs for sale/slaughter If there was I think alot more hogs would be killed. Most guys I know see the killing of anything without making use of it against there morals. I'm sure the USDA will not be asking landowners permission to hunt their property any more than they will poll us about opinions on doing it. The problem I'm having right now is the people asking me to come get their hogs are on 100-300 acre farms and depending on the lay of the land I'm not going to hunt them without neighboring landowners permission. I do this because I don't want to give people a bad taste in their mouth by tresspassing on their property. I try to leave a positive impression on people whether I'm hunting fishing or just hanging out. It makes no since to feed antis evidence to support their claims. I do tie hogs until I get ready to clean them if i think it's going to be an all day hunt. A four hour dead hog is no fun to clean. I guess we as hunters should spend more time at co-op and ag meetings trying to put a positive image in the minds of the farmers and landowners and to undo alot of things the bad apples have done. Hogs aren't a big problem here yet but when they are I'sure it'll be alot easier to get permission to hunt a place when they five acres of freshly plowed dirt that was peanuts the week before than getting it from a farmer that saw three hogs the other day but can't see where they hurt anything. Until then Me and my dogs will kill a few here and alot in north florida.

 

[olcowman]

I have no problem with a farmer or landowner in general, who has a hog problem, allowing someone to remove the swine in an effective and efficient manner is a good practice. And I could care less if ya'll want to shoot em with hi-tech army scopes, lob grenades at them or fire patriot missiles from a jet or whatever rocks your client's boat.

As that is the bottom line here, this is a business venture. If you were out only for the good of the poor old American farmer and the good of the environment, you wouldn't be charging such a price. Let's be honest with each other here and cut all the crap, you offer a needed service, and offer it in such a way that it is going to be quite abrasive to many of those who were brought up, generations upon generations, with a traditional sense of respect for the actual act of hunting and the creatures we pursue. On the other hand, there has always been those who also call themselves hunters (a few are quite prominent in the industry itself,) who rather than get out and pursue the game in the traditional way, prefer to have someone either capture his quarry from the wild or raise it on a farm and then confine it within a high fence until such a time this hunter can break free for a few minutes to come out and shoot the animal at his convenience. The ethics and use of the word hunting to describe this sort of harvest are debated all over the world and everyone has their own opinion to express. I have the money to do the latter, but thank the Lord I still have the time and health to do it the traditional way. To each his own in this case.

Your new combination of extreme sports, military technology and hog eradication is exactly what it represents. Removal of unwanted swine as efficiently and quickly as possible. I am not sure if any aspect what so ever qualifies as hunting in the traditional sense here. Therefore perhaps a new catagory could be developed in this case. An entire industry could be started and champions could be crowned, tv shows aired on espn, or maybe even some kind of hog killer's olympics could be held. Perhaps this way we could disassociate hunting (the way most of us perceive it anyhow) from this new "Extreme Eradication" and we can politely point out to the antis and public in general that we as hunters are not overwhelmingly advocating or are we part of this new venture in anyway.

Am I being overly reactive here? Follow the links and look at the posted pics of hogs piled up like cord wood with a little suckling pig or two throwed out front where the camera will be sure and not miss it. Watch the vids, and imagine this same scenario without the obvious trained marksmen. Those amazing shots at hogs running wide open aint going to be nearly as effective with Joe Blow behind the trigger. That is just what HSUS needs, a vid of a bunch of guys with $10K firearms running around a S Ga peanut field at midnight trying to dispatch 30 or40 squealing, gut shot hogs.

Ever been to slaughterhouse or placed a poor, non-lethal shot on a hog? You know that really nerve shattering sound they can make? Throw yourself in a couple of wet sows with broke backs desperately attemping to escape on their barely functioning front legs and a few little pigs with their high pitched distress calls and I think some of them PETA folks might just kiss you right on the lips.

I wish some restraint could be used in the posting of this type of thing although I realize you are trying to make a sale. Maybe some kind of disclaimer, (even when articles in outdoor magazines seen to promote this practice?), a statement from Mr Jager that his after dark field trips are not to be confused with hunting in any way, and is nothing more than a for profit joint venture between some agricultural enterprises, a buisinessman (slash) army sharp shooter, and some fellers with lots of money, with the sole purpose of killing as many hogs as humanly possible from private property and then getting their picture made.

The hunting community as a whole really needs to be prepared to answer the non hunting's public perception, when certain groups air these tidbits with their own spin on it. If you support it and think it is just another form of our beloved sport that is being threatend, then either get some really good lobbyists lined up or a pile of money for a counter p.r. campaign. As for myself, I am going to state that it is not hunting as I have always thought it to be, that I have never and will never spend any of my own money in pursuit of or in support of any such practice, carried out in a kill for profit manner. And I would suggest that the antis look at the buisiness owners and the participants themselves, not the traditional hunters, as to answers, needs, and the facts surrounding this practice.

I welcome any feedback if I am off base here. This is not a personal attack on Jager, as I can apreciate his entreprenureal spirit and acknowledge his service to our country in the armed forces. But perhaps if we as a forum are going to embrace his venture and accept it to some extent as part of the hunting community. I sincerely hope that some of the more industry experienced members and Mr Jager's personal friends on this board, can work with him regarding the possible implications of this relationship between hunting and hog control.

 

[BornToHuntAndFish]

Good words of wisdom, Jager. Well put with facts. Unfortunately at times (like I've commonly heard said of some Christians) hunters can be our own worst enemy (or we've at times met the enemy & he is us sometimes) where we are the only groups/armies that shoot or try to take down our own wounded. Anti-hunters, anti-gun groups, PETA, etc., love to see & feed off turmoil in our own ranks instead of us working together focusing on & helping each other in fixing the real problems we all face, instead of beating up on each other. It would be good if we can learn to "agree to disagree agreeably" on a few areas. Even Texas I keep reading & hearing about out of control, unmanageable, severe hog herd breeding/multiplying & damage problems on ranches seeking help, like coyotes according to well educated wildlife biologists & managers report you can never completely erradicate them & hogs, and hogs are way smarter than coyotes. Like the ole saying goes, "If we keep doing what we're doing, we're just going to get MORE of what we already got."

 

[SWbowhunter]

I have no problem with a farmer or landowner in general, who has a hog problem, allowing someone to remove the swine in an effective and efficient manner is a good practice. And I could care less if ya'll want to shoot em with hi-tech army scopes, lob grenades at them or fire patriot missiles from a jet or whatever rocks your client's boat.

As that is the bottom line here, this is a business venture. If you were out only for the good of the poor old American farmer and the good of the envioronment, you wouldn't be charging such a price. Let's be honest with each other here and cut all the crap, you offer a needed service, and offer it in such a way that it is going to be quite abrasive to many of those who were brought up, generation after generation, with a traditional sense of respect for the actual act of hunting and the creatures we pursue. On the other hand, there has always been those who also call themselves hunters and am few are quite prominent in the industry itself, who rather than get out and pursue the game in the traditional way, prefer to have someone either capture his quarry from the wild or raise it on a farm and then confine it within a high fence until such a time this hunter can break free for a few minutes to come out and shoot the animal at his convenience. The ethics and use of the word hunting to describe this sort of harvest are debated all over the world and everyone has their own opinion to express. I have the money to do the latter, but thank the Lord I still have the time and health do it the traditional way. To each his own in this case.

Your new combination of extreme sports, military technology and hog eradication is exactly what it represents. Removal of unwanted swine as efficiently and quickly as possible. I am not sure if any aspect what so ever qualifies as hunting in the traditional sense here. Therefore perhaps a new catagory could be developed in this case. An entire industry could be started and champions could be crowned, tv shows aired on espn, or maybe even some kind of hog killer's olympics could be held. Perhaps this way we could disassociate hunting (the way most of us perceive it anyhow) from this new "Extreme Eradication" and we can politely point out to the antis and public in general that we as hunters are not overwhelmingly advocating or are we part of this new venture in anyway.

Am I being overly reactive here? Follow the links and look at the posted pics of hogs piled up like cord wood with a little suckling pig or two throwed out front where the camera will be sure and not miss it. Watch the vids, and imagine this same scenario without the obvious trained marksmen. Those amazing shots at hogs running wide open aint going to be nearly aseffecient with Joe Blow behind the trigger. That is just what HSUS needs, a vid of a bunch of guys with $10K firearms running around a S Ga peanut field at midnight trying to dispatch 30 or40 squealing, gut shot hogs.

Ever been to slaughterhouse or placed a poor, non-lethal shot on a hog? You know that really nerve shattering sound they can make? Throw yourself in a couple of wet sows with broke backs desperately attemping to escape on their barely finctioning front legs and a few little pigs with their high pitched distress calls and I think some of them PETA folks might just kiss you right on the lips.

I wish some restraint could be used in the posting of this type of thing although I realize you are trying to make a sale. Maybe some kind of disclaimer, (even when articles in outdoor magazines seen to promote this practice?), a statement from Mr Jager that his after dark field trips are not to be confused with hunting in any way, and is nothing more than a for profit joint venture between some agricultural enterprises, a buisinessman (slash) army sharp shooter, and some fellers with lots of money, with the sole purpose of killing as many hogs as humanly possible from private property and then getting their picture made.

The hunting community as a whole really needs to be prepared to answer the non hunting's public perception, when certain groups air these tidbits with their own spin on it. If you support it and think it is just another form of our beloved sport that is being threatend, then either get some really good lobbyists lined up or a pile of money for a counter p.r. campaign. As for myself, I am going to state that it is not hunting as I have always thought it to be, that I have never and will never spend any of my own money in pursuit of or in support of any such practice, carried out in a kill for profit manner. And I would suggest that the antis look at the buisiness owners and the participants themselves, not the everyman hunters, as to answers, needs, and the facts surrounding this practice.

I welcome any feedback if I am off base here. This is not a personal attack on Jager, as I can apreciate his entreprenureal spirit and acknowledge his service to our country in the armed forces. But perhaps if we as a forum are going to embrace his venture and accept it to some extent as part of the hunting community. I sincerely hope that some of the more industry experienced members and Mr Jager's personal friends on this board, can work with him regarding the possible implications of this relationship between hunting and hog control.

I kind of understand what you are saying, but in most states feral swine are not considered wildlife or game animals at all. That being said they are similar to other vermin...like roof rats for eample. When was the las time you saw peta campaining against roof rat eradication or control? Pigs do not have big brown eyes and anti's know they would take a beating. The 80% percent of americans who are not animal activist or hunters will not easily be won over by anti's when pigs are destroying golf courses and lawns. May not happen in Georgia yet, but it happens in Florida and Texas all the time. I think its great to call it hunting. Its what it is. But as hunters we need to understand our role as mangement tool and if we are not efficent enough, someone will find a better tool.

 

[cpowel10]

I like talking about this subject, we've had a good discussion in this thread and in the other thread without us saying anything to get it locked.

I think everyone knows my point of view about hogs so I'm not going to beat the dead horse by saying it all over again. I believe hunting with dogs is a great way to control the animals numbers, and you can have a great time doing it also. I have absolutely nothing against the practice at all and have more respect for the people who can chase a hog down and stab him than I do someone who just blasts them when they ride up on them.

However, I've read several times (especially in the other thread) doggers making comments about farmers not letting them run hogs. The comments are lumping all the farmers together as if they all will not allow them to run dogs and are all out to just make a buck. Most comments about farmers are implying that they cry about the hogs eating crops but won't do anything about it.

The comments like these imply that all farmers are like that. Sure there probably some farmers that do complain about the subject and do nothing about it, and this causes the whole group of farmers to look bad.

However......just as a few farmers like this cause a stereotype in the minds of doggers, a few doggers can cause a stereotype in the minds of farmers just the same. I know 99% of doggers are great honest guys that are having a good time doing a great service, but I'd just like to make it clear that there are a few (very few) that have given farmers a bad taste in their mouth.

Just as a few farmers have ruined the reputation of all farmers in the eyes of doggers, a few doggers have ruined the reputation of all doggers in the eyes of farmers.

 

[gigem]

Sulli, you can ride with me any night brother!

 

[capt stan]

I have no problem with a farmer or landowner in general, who has a hog problem, allowing someone to remove the swine in an effective and efficient manner is a good practice. And I could care less if ya'll want to shoot em with hi-tech army scopes, lob grenades at them or fire patriot missiles from a jet or whatever rocks your client's boat.

As that is the bottom line here, this is a business venture. If you were out only for the good of the poor old American farmer and the good of the envioronment, you wouldn't be charging such a price. Let's be honest with each other here and cut all the crap, you offer a needed service, and offer it in such a way that it is going to be quite abrasive to many of those who were brought up, generation after generation, with a traditional sense of respect for the actual act of hunting and the creatures we pursue. On the other hand, there has always been those who also call themselves hunters and am few are quite prominent in the industry itself, who rather than get out and pursue the game in the traditional way, prefer to have someone either capture his quarry from the wild or raise it on a farm and then confine it within a high fence until such a time this hunter can break free for a few minutes to come out and shoot the animal at his convenience. The ethics and use of the word hunting to describe this sort of harvest are debated all over the world and everyone has their own opinion to express. I have the money to do the latter, but thank the Lord I still have the time and health do it the traditional way. To each his own in this case.

Your new combination of extreme sports, military technology and hog eradication is exactly what it represents. Removal of unwanted swine as efficiently and quickly as possible. I am not sure if any aspect what so ever qualifies as hunting in the traditional sense here. Therefore perhaps a new catagory could be developed in this case. An entire industry could be started and champions could be crowned, tv shows aired on espn, or maybe even some kind of hog killer's olympics could be held. Perhaps this way we could disassociate hunting (the way most of us perceive it anyhow) from this new "Extreme Eradication" and we can politely point out to the antis and public in general that we as hunters are not overwhelmingly advocating or are we part of this new venture in anyway.

Am I being overly reactive here? Follow the links and look at the posted pics of hogs piled up like cord wood with a little suckling pig or two throwed out front where the camera will be sure and not miss it. Watch the vids, and imagine this same scenario without the obvious trained marksmen. Those amazing shots at hogs running wide open aint going to be nearly aseffecient with Joe Blow behind the trigger. That is just what HSUS needs, a vid of a bunch of guys with $10K firearms running around a S Ga peanut field at midnight trying to dispatch 30 or40 squealing, gut shot hogs.

Ever been to slaughterhouse or placed a poor, non-lethal shot on a hog? You know that really nerve shattering sound they can make? Throw yourself in a couple of wet sows with broke backs desperately attemping to escape on their barely finctioning front legs and a few little pigs with their high pitched distress calls and I think some of them PETA folks might just kiss you right on the lips.

I wish some restraint could be used in the posting of this type of thing although I realize you are trying to make a sale. Maybe some kind of disclaimer, (even when articles in outdoor magazines seen to promote this practice?), a statement from Mr Jager that his after dark field trips are not to be confused with hunting in any way, and is nothing more than a for profit joint venture between some agricultural enterprises, a buisinessman (slash) army sharp shooter, and some fellers with lots of money, with the sole purpose of killing as many hogs as humanly possible from private property and then getting their picture made.

The hunting community as a whole really needs to be prepared to answer the non hunting's public perception, when certain groups air these tidbits with their own spin on it. If you support it and think it is just another form of our beloved sport that is being threatend, then either get some really good lobbyists lined up or a pile of money for a counter p.r. campaign. As for myself, I am going to state that it is not hunting as I have always thought it to be, that I have never and will never spend any of my own money in pursuit of or in support of any such practice, carried out in a kill for profit manner. And I would suggest that the antis look at the buisiness owners and the participants themselves, not the everyman hunters, as to answers, needs, and the facts surrounding this practice.

I welcome any feedback if I am off base here. This is not a personal attack on Jager, as I can apreciate his entreprenureal spirit and acknowledge his service to our country in the armed forces. But perhaps if we as a forum are going to embrace his venture and accept it to some extent as part of the hunting community. I sincerely hope that some of the more industry experienced members and Mr Jager's personal friends on this board, can work with him regarding the possible implications of this relationship between hunting and hog control.

I gotta agree with that 100% Very well said!

 

[gigem]

This time of the year hog hunting almost becomes a job when the corn is getting ready. We dont have any problems or complaints with the fields we hunt. The only problem is we do not have enough time to get to all the land we have to take care of.

 

[Public Land Prowler]

LOL!!!I would love to see them try to aerial attack the hogs I hunt!

 

[gnarlyone]

Why?

The confusing thing to me is ...I hunt Dooly,Houston,Crisp,Macon,Taylor,Pulaski, and Peach counties...I have a very good relationship with my farmers..most of them are my friends with no ties to hog hunting. I would bet that there is no other counties in Ga. that has the hog populations of the counties i hunt. I spend many hundreds of dollars a month checking each place for the first signs of any hog damage. WHY....does not even 1 of these farmers say they have ever said anything to the Ga. F.B. about the hog problem and something being done about it?

 

[cpowel10]

The confusing thing to me is ...I hunt Dooly,Houston,Crisp,Macon,Taylor,Pulaski, and Peach counties...I have a very good relationship with my farmers..most of them are my friends with no ties to hog hunting. I would bet that there is no other counties in Ga. that has the hog populations of the counties i hunt. I spend many hundreds of dollars a month checking each place for the first signs of any hog damage. WHY....does not even 1 of these farmers say they have ever said anything to the Ga. F.B. about the hog problem and something being done about it?

Some farmers just don't have hogs on their property. We've got a piece of property that has never shown any hog sign, I've never even seen a track on this place...but 1/4 mile away (according to google earth) I've got a friend who killed 60 hogs out of a field last year.

Some farmers have never had an issue at all with hogs, with your farmer(s) that may be the case. The majority of farmers don't have an issue with hogs, some have a little damage from them, and some won't plant peanuts in certain fields because of the amount of hogs.

 

[GobbleAndGrunt78]

olcowman is very good with his words......well put!

 

[gnarlyone]

cpowel10

These are the farmers that DO have hogs......They plant peanuts and corn..I catch around 40 hogs a year off each of the better farms to hunt and they say they've never contacted GFB to report any damage or problems...or reported losses due to hogs...Total of over 30,000 acres...I just can't figure with the high hog population in this area...if these guys(about 20 farmers) aren't reporting this...where does this "data" come from?

 

[cpowel10]

These are the farmers that DO have hogs......They plant peanuts and corn..I catch around 40 hogs a year off each of the better farms to hunt and they say they've never contacted GFB to report any damage or problems...or reported losses due to hogs...Total of over 30,000 acres...I just can't figure with the high hog population in this area...if these guys(about 20 farmers) aren't reporting this...where does this "data" come from?

What "data" are you talking about.

So your saying you have about 20 farmers that grow peanuts and corn that have plenty of hogs have little/no damage from hogs. That may be the case, I don't know.

BUT are you insinuating that hogs don't cause much damage to corn and peanuts? Are all the farmers who report damage liars? The "data" your are talking about probably comes from people who have damage, from hogs.