Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Jesus is known as the "second" person of the Trinity. I'm guessing the Father is "one" and the Holy Spirit is "three."
Did man do this numbering or is it scriptural?
Did man do this numbering or is it scriptural?
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"The second person in the Trinity?"
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gordon 2
Senior Member
In order that the Father be know Adam had to be. In order that the Son be known Adam had to be. In order that the Holy Spirit be known Adam had to be. In order that Jesus be known the Father had to be. In order that the Father be known Jesus had to be. In order that the Holy Spirit be know both the Father and Jesus had to be. In order that the Father be know the Holy Spirit had to be... etc.
I would suggest that historical roll out of God's interventions ( manifestation of deity in sensible form) in the life of human beings determine the numbering scheme.
I would suggest that historical roll out of God's interventions ( manifestation of deity in sensible form) in the life of human beings determine the numbering scheme.
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Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Again, who made the order? God or man? What does scripture say? Is there a verse that says "Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, said ___. Is there any scripture that makes Jesus two and the Holy Spirit three or the Father one? By number or logic or by the order of His manifestation?
gordon 2
Senior Member
I don't follow scripture. So I can't really tell you, but I will google it as soon as I can get to it.
gordon 2
Senior Member
My best concordance ( Wikipedia) to which I tithe, says this:
While the developed doctrine of the Trinity is not explicit in the books that constitute the New Testament, the New Testament possesses a triadic understanding of God[7] and contains a number of Trinitarian formulas.[8][need quotation to verify][9] The doctrine of the Trinity was first formulated among the early Christians and fathers of the Church as early Christians attempted to understand the relationship between Jesus and God in their scriptural documents and prior traditions.[10]
While the developed doctrine of the Trinity is not explicit in the books that constitute the New Testament, the New Testament possesses a triadic understanding of God[7] and contains a number of Trinitarian formulas.[8][need quotation to verify][9] The doctrine of the Trinity was first formulated among the early Christians and fathers of the Church as early Christians attempted to understand the relationship between Jesus and God in their scriptural documents and prior traditions.[10]
j_seph
Senior Member
1 John 5:7
j_seph
Senior Member
Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
When written in scripture is the three always written in that order and why?
gordon 2
Senior Member
I think that Matthew 28:19 regards Father, Son and HS that originally it was only "in the name of Jesus". It was a latter add on or "gloss". But regardless it indicates an origin-- most likely in tradition.
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
Interesting question. But, for it to be 3 wouldn’t the singular “in the name” need to be plural as in…..”in the names”?
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
Oneness believers state that Jesus is the "name" of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Perhaps God is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Reading it does not mean that they all share the same name. It does not even mean that any of them has a name at all.
"In the name of" is a phrase such as "in the authority of." Saying "in the name of Lenin, Stalin, and Brezhnev" does not imply that the three are homonyms.
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Madman
Senior Member
Either way it was man. The Trinity is finite man trying to grasp infinite God. I stay out of incomprehensible discussions for concern of heresy.
gemcgrew
Senior Member
Christ is center. He is not part of the message of scripture, but the only message.
He is the Glory of God. The Father sends, the Spirit testifies.
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
Oneness believers believe that Jesus is a manifestation of God, not a separate entity.
Examples: I and my Father are one, Jesus is Lord, God is a spirit, the comforter is the Holy Ghost, know ye that the Lord he is God.
In the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established……. look at Acts and see what name they were commanded to be baptized in, look at the few examples above, look at do all deeds in the name of Jesus, and look at Matthew again and see if that name lines up with all of it.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I like this better than man's numbering system.
gemcgrew
Senior Member
The numbering system serves God's purpose.
God made foolish the wisdom of this world.
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