Doc_5729
Senior Member
Didn't know exactly where I should post this, so I'll put it here. If it the wrong forum I ask that the Mods relocate it.
It's a novel (long read) of sorts, but interesting to say the least...
A friend owns a large tract of land that is land locked in a very rural area. This property is land locked since the once public road has been abandoned by the county years ago.
As a matter of fact, my friend installed the first gate across that roadway years ago with the counties permission to stop trespassers and vandalism on his and surrounding property. (The timber companies agreed that would be best as well)
The owner doesn't lease his property but he does allow family members and close friends to hunt free of charge. In the past he hunted as well, but due to hip and lower back problems associated with age, he rarely hunts any more, but still visits the property regularly.
It is timberland surrounded by timberland owned by large corporations that do lease the properties, which is where the problem arises.
The timber companies have a "good neighbor" policy and attitude and are easy to work and get along with. They understand the laws regarding property access and recognize "prescribed easement" rights in accessing inaccessible properties and have went above the call of duty in providing such access. (When the county abandoned the road, a prescribed easement was established which gives the land owner access.)
HOWEVER, the parties leasing the property from the timber companies (from out of State) have different views and have made the owner and his friends access miserable for the past 3 years.
It all started when these hunting club members first approached the owners brother in law and one of his friends on a Saturday morning. It was close to noon as they were accessing the property to hunt that Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning. They had planned to camp over night and leave after the morning hunt.
They had originally planned on being there on Friday night and hunting Saturday morning, but those plans changed when a water main ruptured and the brother in law had worked until past mid night Friday night making repairs.
The hunting club blocked the road way and demanding on knowing who these guys and what they were doing there.
Even after they explained they had rights to access the tract in question, these club members told the brother in law he was not allowed to access the property at will, and if he intended to hunt he would need to enter no later than 8 PM on Friday nights and be prepared to stay until legal hunting hours ended on Sunday.
He would have NO in and out access over the weekend.
Well you know how well that went over and the conversation quickly escalated into a heated argument that almost became a physical encounter. None the less the brother in law did restrain himself for the moment and went on to their camp.
He did leave the next morning as planned and just kept driving when a club member attempted to stop him again. As he drove past they were yelling for him to stop.
When he returned home, he called the owner and explained what happened. To say he was livid would be a mild understatement.
That's where I entered the picture. Being a close friend of the owner and having leasing experience along with record searching experience he asked me to find out his rights in accessing his land, the original roadway easement (county records), and who had leased the property from the timber companies.
No problem. Done in a few hours, mostly over the phone, with the exception of retrieving some old county road maps showing the original county roadway.
The next task was to contact the hunting club President and discuss the problem with him and see if he understood the laws regarding accessing property and he had no rights in their demands of limited access. And if a neighborly agreement of sorts could be reached.
MAJOR PROBLEM
The club President was of the mindset he had total control of the property and rights of access. the fact my friend owned his property and had UN-limited access by law was not recognized. The guy was a real jerk with a super arrogant attitude.
I could see how the debate in the woods became intense just talking on the phone with this idiot.
But I was polite and soft spoken, remained calm, though I don't know how, I never raised my voice or tried to speak over him.
I did politely inform him my friend would do what ever it took up to and including legal action, but would rather settle the problem in a civilized neighborly manner rather than dealing with lawyers and courts.
He basically told me he had laid down the ground rules and if we weren't satisfied with that to do whatever we wanted too. He didn't care he knew HIS RIGHTS.
Bad move......... First of all the only rights this guy and his members have is the right to hunt and the contract with the timber company had printed conditions of use. And secondly, his access is protected by law.
I informed my friend of the attitude problem this club had and was then instructed to contact the timber company on his behalf and inform them of the problem. He also instructed me to locate an attorney in the county in question that had close ties with the "Powers that Be" in the meantime just in case.
My first call went to the timber company in which I left a voice mail message for the Land/Property Manager. I explained in detail the problem we were having and asked for a return call. I also contacted some local attorney friends and asked for recommendations in that area and proceeded to place an attorney on retainer. (just in case)
While I was in the process the property manager returned my call and I explained the problem.
The property manager assured me he would deal with the problem and resolve any issues in easement and accessibility. Which he did and did promptly. The problem was resolved in less than 48 hours and the club president understood his only rights were the right to hunt.
He had NO control over the land or limiting access on the easement and our people could and would be granted access when we wished.
That ended our problem and everyone was happy until last year.
Here we go again....
Yet again our locks were cut and gone, and had been replaced with hardened chain and new locks.
My friend cut a link from the chain and replaced his locks and we contacted the timber company again.
Problem resolved again, but it took some time.........
Now this year, YUP, you guessed it, the same problem has arisen again and the brother in law was stopped in the roadway again with folks making demands on limited access.
Their locks had been cut off again but instead of just cutting the chain and putting new locks in, the owner went down personally and ripped the entire gate out and was prepared to deal with the club members accordingly.
However there was no one there that weekend. That was probably a good thing. He has since replaced the gate with new locks and left enough chain for the hunting club to install theirs.
Now here's where the current problem arises.......
There was another timber company that owned two tracts between us and the land in question. That timber company did not lease their property the prior 2-3 years because it was in the liquidation process. We made several formal offers which were rejected, and in the end they sold the property, unbeknown to us for less than our original offer.
They recognized the easement and the right of access and we never had any problems with them. They were also informed of the original problem we had with the hunting club and were very supportive of our actions to resolve our problems.
According to what I was told yesterday by the Property manager I mentioned above, the new owner of those two tracts has leased the hunting rights, possibly to the SAME club, but that could not be confirmed as fact, YET.
The new owner is a heavily cloated corporation that is ultimately owned by an investment group that is well protected. Every leasing agent we contacted thus far denies responsibility.
To top that off supposedly, from even more conversations over the past weekend in yet another run in, the club president has convinced the new owner, who is evidently not aware of the prescribed easement he inherited when he bought the property, to give them permission to stop anyone from coming across his land.
Better pull up a chair because it looks like this is gunna get nasty. My friend is now in the process of taking legal actions to formally clear that easement and remove any and all obstacles including the gate he originally put up.
When he bought the property 40 years years ago there were houses and homes located along what is now the easement and it was a county maintained public right of way.
Since there are multiple land owners involved in the surrounding tracts, his wishes are to make that a public roadway again and open the original 40 foot Right of Way.
He is so determined in accomplishing that goal he is willing to foot the bill and pay the expense at NO cost to the county. He said he will even use his equipment, loaders, dozers and such to build the road. Said they can name the roadway after him to remind that hunting club what they caused.
But the bottom line is, this hunting club is going to cost my friend and the new land owners thousands in UN-NECESSARY legal expenses because they think someone riding down an easement in a truck is going to scare "their" deer off.
I find that kind of comical, even though there's nothing funny about this case.
But it's like my friend said, he's 75 years old and has busted his behind all his life for what he owns. If he doesn't protect his Rights who will? It's a matter of principal now and money isn't an issue.
And folks wonder why land owners hate deer hunters and won't allow hunting on their property.
It's a novel (long read) of sorts, but interesting to say the least...
A friend owns a large tract of land that is land locked in a very rural area. This property is land locked since the once public road has been abandoned by the county years ago.
As a matter of fact, my friend installed the first gate across that roadway years ago with the counties permission to stop trespassers and vandalism on his and surrounding property. (The timber companies agreed that would be best as well)
The owner doesn't lease his property but he does allow family members and close friends to hunt free of charge. In the past he hunted as well, but due to hip and lower back problems associated with age, he rarely hunts any more, but still visits the property regularly.
It is timberland surrounded by timberland owned by large corporations that do lease the properties, which is where the problem arises.
The timber companies have a "good neighbor" policy and attitude and are easy to work and get along with. They understand the laws regarding property access and recognize "prescribed easement" rights in accessing inaccessible properties and have went above the call of duty in providing such access. (When the county abandoned the road, a prescribed easement was established which gives the land owner access.)
HOWEVER, the parties leasing the property from the timber companies (from out of State) have different views and have made the owner and his friends access miserable for the past 3 years.
It all started when these hunting club members first approached the owners brother in law and one of his friends on a Saturday morning. It was close to noon as they were accessing the property to hunt that Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning. They had planned to camp over night and leave after the morning hunt.
They had originally planned on being there on Friday night and hunting Saturday morning, but those plans changed when a water main ruptured and the brother in law had worked until past mid night Friday night making repairs.
The hunting club blocked the road way and demanding on knowing who these guys and what they were doing there.
Even after they explained they had rights to access the tract in question, these club members told the brother in law he was not allowed to access the property at will, and if he intended to hunt he would need to enter no later than 8 PM on Friday nights and be prepared to stay until legal hunting hours ended on Sunday.
He would have NO in and out access over the weekend.
Well you know how well that went over and the conversation quickly escalated into a heated argument that almost became a physical encounter. None the less the brother in law did restrain himself for the moment and went on to their camp.
He did leave the next morning as planned and just kept driving when a club member attempted to stop him again. As he drove past they were yelling for him to stop.
When he returned home, he called the owner and explained what happened. To say he was livid would be a mild understatement.
That's where I entered the picture. Being a close friend of the owner and having leasing experience along with record searching experience he asked me to find out his rights in accessing his land, the original roadway easement (county records), and who had leased the property from the timber companies.
No problem. Done in a few hours, mostly over the phone, with the exception of retrieving some old county road maps showing the original county roadway.
The next task was to contact the hunting club President and discuss the problem with him and see if he understood the laws regarding accessing property and he had no rights in their demands of limited access. And if a neighborly agreement of sorts could be reached.
MAJOR PROBLEM
The club President was of the mindset he had total control of the property and rights of access. the fact my friend owned his property and had UN-limited access by law was not recognized. The guy was a real jerk with a super arrogant attitude.
I could see how the debate in the woods became intense just talking on the phone with this idiot.
But I was polite and soft spoken, remained calm, though I don't know how, I never raised my voice or tried to speak over him.
I did politely inform him my friend would do what ever it took up to and including legal action, but would rather settle the problem in a civilized neighborly manner rather than dealing with lawyers and courts.
He basically told me he had laid down the ground rules and if we weren't satisfied with that to do whatever we wanted too. He didn't care he knew HIS RIGHTS.
Bad move......... First of all the only rights this guy and his members have is the right to hunt and the contract with the timber company had printed conditions of use. And secondly, his access is protected by law.
I informed my friend of the attitude problem this club had and was then instructed to contact the timber company on his behalf and inform them of the problem. He also instructed me to locate an attorney in the county in question that had close ties with the "Powers that Be" in the meantime just in case.
My first call went to the timber company in which I left a voice mail message for the Land/Property Manager. I explained in detail the problem we were having and asked for a return call. I also contacted some local attorney friends and asked for recommendations in that area and proceeded to place an attorney on retainer. (just in case)
While I was in the process the property manager returned my call and I explained the problem.
The property manager assured me he would deal with the problem and resolve any issues in easement and accessibility. Which he did and did promptly. The problem was resolved in less than 48 hours and the club president understood his only rights were the right to hunt.
He had NO control over the land or limiting access on the easement and our people could and would be granted access when we wished.
That ended our problem and everyone was happy until last year.
Here we go again....
Yet again our locks were cut and gone, and had been replaced with hardened chain and new locks.
My friend cut a link from the chain and replaced his locks and we contacted the timber company again.
Problem resolved again, but it took some time.........
Now this year, YUP, you guessed it, the same problem has arisen again and the brother in law was stopped in the roadway again with folks making demands on limited access.
Their locks had been cut off again but instead of just cutting the chain and putting new locks in, the owner went down personally and ripped the entire gate out and was prepared to deal with the club members accordingly.
However there was no one there that weekend. That was probably a good thing. He has since replaced the gate with new locks and left enough chain for the hunting club to install theirs.
Now here's where the current problem arises.......
There was another timber company that owned two tracts between us and the land in question. That timber company did not lease their property the prior 2-3 years because it was in the liquidation process. We made several formal offers which were rejected, and in the end they sold the property, unbeknown to us for less than our original offer.
They recognized the easement and the right of access and we never had any problems with them. They were also informed of the original problem we had with the hunting club and were very supportive of our actions to resolve our problems.
According to what I was told yesterday by the Property manager I mentioned above, the new owner of those two tracts has leased the hunting rights, possibly to the SAME club, but that could not be confirmed as fact, YET.
The new owner is a heavily cloated corporation that is ultimately owned by an investment group that is well protected. Every leasing agent we contacted thus far denies responsibility.
To top that off supposedly, from even more conversations over the past weekend in yet another run in, the club president has convinced the new owner, who is evidently not aware of the prescribed easement he inherited when he bought the property, to give them permission to stop anyone from coming across his land.
Better pull up a chair because it looks like this is gunna get nasty. My friend is now in the process of taking legal actions to formally clear that easement and remove any and all obstacles including the gate he originally put up.
When he bought the property 40 years years ago there were houses and homes located along what is now the easement and it was a county maintained public right of way.
Since there are multiple land owners involved in the surrounding tracts, his wishes are to make that a public roadway again and open the original 40 foot Right of Way.
He is so determined in accomplishing that goal he is willing to foot the bill and pay the expense at NO cost to the county. He said he will even use his equipment, loaders, dozers and such to build the road. Said they can name the roadway after him to remind that hunting club what they caused.
But the bottom line is, this hunting club is going to cost my friend and the new land owners thousands in UN-NECESSARY legal expenses because they think someone riding down an easement in a truck is going to scare "their" deer off.
I find that kind of comical, even though there's nothing funny about this case.
But it's like my friend said, he's 75 years old and has busted his behind all his life for what he owns. If he doesn't protect his Rights who will? It's a matter of principal now and money isn't an issue.
And folks wonder why land owners hate deer hunters and won't allow hunting on their property.
, and I,m from Florida. Thier,s Jerks all over this land ,Seems like the club President needs to be taken out behind the wood house and get straightened out.
