Where's Bro David's thread?

[Spotlite]

Get to your point man...
This is excruciating.

The facts are man took 1500 years to get the completed bible as we know it.
If you can refute that with evidence that says otherwise, lets hear it.
If you can't....

If you have some Ah Hah gotcha bombshell that you want to drop go for it.

No Ah Hah gotcha bombshell from me.

I’m just assuming here, but it appears that we are all relying on what we consider to be best known to us and none of us really have what could be considered facts for or against by one another.

As for books “written by men”, well, all books are written by men.

They only differ in their inspiration.

 

[ambush80]

For the wrong reasons, yes it could, and would. So yes, I would agree with you, but then you end up building on very shallow foundations. It’s almost like saying you love your wife because she bought you a new truck.

Allot of people offer their testimonies about "miracles". Some of them are the kind confound science (I should have died but I didn't) and the other kind are the ones that are subjective and personal (He changed me on the inside). I find both kind compelling and enjoy when people share them. Of the naturalistic claims, I would love to be able to investigate them thoroughly.

 

[bullethead]

No Ah Hah gotcha bombshell from me.

I’m just assuming here, but it appears that we are all relying on what we consider to be best known to us and none of us really have what could be considered facts for or against by one another.

As for books “written by men”, well, all books are written by men.

They only differ in their inspiration.

If you are under the impression that science is equally as unfactual as religion then you are painting it with the broadest brush possible.
Science is ALWAYS open to review new information and change if necessary, but things that are considered as fact are that way because they have held up to ALL scrutiny.
Religion, not so much.

Yes, all books are written by men and inspired by a variety of things.

Are you telling me that you put the contents of the Bible in the same group as everything else?
If not, why not?
And that is why we both hold it to different standards.

 

[Spotlite]

If you are under the impression that science is equally as unfactual as religion then you are painting it with the broadest brush possible.
Science is ALWAYS open to review new information and change if necessary, but things that are considered as fact are that way because they have held up to ALL scrutiny.
Religion, not so much.

Yes, all books are written by men and inspired by a variety of things.

Are you telling me that you put the contents of the Bible in the same group as everything else?
If not, why not?
And that is why we both hold it to different standards.

I’m telling you that I live and experience what I have faith in and outside of that there is absolutely nothing that even comes close to trying to explain that, although they try. Science is just trying to figure out Gods creation. I have no issues with that exploration. We don’t completely ignore them as some non believers would think, we just don’t hold them at the top of the ladder.

If they’re bold enough to tell me what didn’t happen, they better be smart enough to tell me what did, with certainty, not most likely.

 

[bullethead]

I’m telling you that I live and experience what I have faith in and outside of that there is absolutely nothing that even comes close to trying to explain that, although they try. Science is just trying to figure out Gods creation. I have no issues with that exploration. We don’t completely ignore them as some non believers would think, we just don’t hold them at the top of the ladder.

If they’re bold enough to tell me what didn’t happen, they better be smart enough to tell me what did, with certainty, not most likely.

So tell me how you know any experience you had was because of God or Jesus. Did either one personally visit you? Speak to you ?

Can you show me where scientists agree that they not only acknowledge a specific god and their goal is to figure out that gods creation?

Or will you just admit that you make ridiculous claims based off of how you think something is without anything to back it up?

 

[WaltL1]

I’m telling you that I live and experience what I have faith in and outside of that there is absolutely nothing that even comes close to trying to explain that, although they try. Science is just trying to figure out Gods creation. I have no issues with that exploration. We don’t completely ignore them as some non believers would think, we just don’t hold them at the top of the ladder.

If they’re bold enough to tell me what didn’t happen, they better be smart enough to tell me what did, with certainty, not most likely.

You want a complete answer and you want it NOW.
God created the earth provides you that answer and provides it NOW.
Science telling you "we are working on it, heres what we have found so far and here is where what we have found is leading to" is not complete and its not NOW.
And therefore unacceptable.

Question -
Do you believe God is responsible for the ongoing changes to our planet?

 

[bullethead]

I’m telling you that I live and experience what I have faith in and outside of that there is absolutely nothing that even comes close to trying to explain that, although they try. Science is just trying to figure out Gods creation. I have no issues with that exploration. We don’t completely ignore them as some non believers would think, we just don’t hold them at the top of the ladder.

If they’re bold enough to tell me what didn’t happen, they better be smart enough to tell me what did, with certainty, not most likely.

And you totally ignored answering my contents of the bible.

Your life, just about every single second of every single day, revolves around science because what it made happen and it can certainly explain how. You seem to overlook all of things you rely on and take for granted. They can tell you what didn't happen because there is no evidence to back it up.

 

[WaltL1]

And you totally ignored answering my contents of the bible.

Your life, just about every single second of every single day, revolves around science because what it made happen and it can certainly explain how. You seem to overlook all of things you rely on and take for granted. They can tell you what didn't happen because there is no evidence to back it up.

It boils down to -
"I blame science that the evidence they are finding does not lead to the Christian God.
All the evidence is there they are just ignoring it because they don't want God to be the answer".

 

[bullethead]

It boils down to -
"I blame science that the evidence they are finding does not lead to the Christian God.
All the evidence is there they are just ignoring it because they don't want God to be the answer".

That seems to be exactly it Walt.

"Everybody everywhere knows that there is only one god but they refuse to acknowledge it and all the evidence for it."
And there isn't a one of them that would tolerate that nonsense from anyone else, about anything else.

 

[ambush80]

I was just listening to Sam Harris and Brian Greene in conversation and Brian Green just said that we have explored "One and a half light seconds from our planet". We don't know nuthin bout nuthin. I can't say wheter or not the creator of the universe told us what he's like through the bizarre stories of ancient Middle Easterners, but I can say that if that's what he told them then it seems ridiculous. That seems like the right word to use.

 

[Spotlite]

You want a complete answer and you want it NOW.
God created the earth provides you that answer and provides it NOW.
Science telling you "we are working on it, heres what we have found so far and here is where what we have found is leading to" is not complete and its not NOW.
And therefore unacceptable.

Question -
Do you believe God is responsible for the ongoing changes to our planet?

No, Walt, not saying that all. Just saying that science and some non believers will boldly tell you “no God” when in fact if what you’re saying is true, and I would agree, they’re working on it, how could they possibly be so firm that “it’s no God” until they know?

 

[Spotlite]

It boils down to -
"I blame science that the evidence they are finding does not lead to the Christian God.
All the evidence is there they are just ignoring it because they don't want God to be the answer".

Dear Lord

No one blames science for anything. No one expects or is even looking for science to find God.

 

[Spotlite]

And you totally ignored answering my contents of the bible.

Your life, just about every single second of every single day, revolves around science because what it made happen and it can certainly explain how. You seem to overlook all of things you rely on and take for granted. They can tell you what didn't happen because there is no evidence to back it up.

I think that one went slap over your head. We know what how why science is for and we use it

But this is a moving target for you of “facts” “evidence” “proof”

 

[Spotlite]

So tell me how you know any experience you had was because of God or Jesus. Did either one personally visit you? Speak to you ?

Can you show me where scientists agree that they not only acknowledge a specific god and their goal is to figure out that gods creation?

Or will you just admit that you make ridiculous claims based off of how you think something is without anything to back it up?

It’s not so much science as it is non believers. Non believers are usually the ones, we’ll you, that will boldly state “no God did it” and point to science as your evidence. Truth is science is just innocently searching and discovering.

Based on your own evidence, you dont really know that no God did it, do you?

 

[ambush80]

It’s not so much science as it is non believers. Non believers are usually the ones, we’ll you, that will boldly state “no God did it” and point to science as your evidence. Truth is science is just innocently searching and discovering.

Based on your own evidence, you dont really know that no God did it, do you?

A scientist would never say that a resurrection is impossible. They would never say that. They would say "It's highly unlikely". They may even say that it's more unlikely than a rock falling up. I'm sure they could make some hypothesis about how a rock could fall up. Not so much a resurrection. If it could be explained it wouldn't be much of a miracle. Then your God wouldn't be any better than "their" God. Though we know that many Gods resurrected before Jesus did, don't we?

https://listverse.com/2013/03/30/10-resurrected-religious-figures/

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[WaltL1]

It’s not so much science as it is non believers. Non believers are usually the ones, we’ll you, that will boldly state “no God did it” and point to science as your evidence. Truth is science is just innocently searching and discovering.

Based on your own evidence, you dont really know that no God did it, do you?

Science isn't just innocently searching and discovering. Science is following the evidence.

Non believers are usually the ones, we’ll you, that will boldly state “no God did it” and point to science as your evidence.

Christians are usually the ones, well you, that will boldly state "no other god did it" and point to the Bible as your evidence".
See how that works?

Based on your own evidence, you dont really know that no God did it, do you?

Based on my own evidence, I don't really know that a squirrel didn't create the earth, or that my next door neighbor didn't create the earth or that one of the other gods didn't create the earth or...………

 

[bullethead]

It’s not so much science as it is non believers. Non believers are usually the ones, we’ll you, that will boldly state “no God did it” and point to science as your evidence. Truth is science is just innocently searching and discovering.

Based on your own evidence, you dont really know that no God did it, do you?

In your world of endless possibilities the doors are open to literally every and any guess. Your god is one of a trillion possibilities. You are unable to narrow it down to a select 10,000.
In science, the possibilities are whatever they can find evidence for and it expands from there. So far, NADA.

Based on my own evidence, yes I can say no god did it. I have never seen, heard, touched, smelled, been visited by, have not found a god, nor have I interpreted strange happenstance as being the result of some spiritual being.

 

[j_seph]

There's a word that eludes me that seems like what you're doing right now. It has something to do with you wanting to agree with me but at the same time not wanting to agree with me.

My question was simple. If this thing was proven to be a miracle, would it bring some people to Christ. The second part of the question is whether or not that would be a good thing.

I believe a true, honest to goodness inexplicable miracle linked to the Bible would bring people to Christendom. I would be a Christian if the utility of being one made sense. I've so far been able to find ways to experience the benefits of religion without the negatives, but if something like this oily Bible turns out to be a true miracle, then it would cause me to re-examine all the other miracle claims not only of the Bible but of all the other religious traditions.

Sort of like John 20:29
Your like King Agrippa

 

[j_seph]

Speaking of King Agrippa, do y'all agree that he was a real person?
What about King Herod?

 

[ky55]

Why are they not sending vials of it to Children's Hospitals all over the world?
Or at least retirement homes for old Hinges?...

Yeah that guy is one of the very worst kind of snake oil salesmen.
He comes up with a miraculous healing oil from a god, from HIS bible, and he hauls it around to other churches in a plastic tote from WalMart.
You would think he’d share just a gallon or two with Mayo Clinic or St. Jude’s Children’s Hospital.

Makes me think of the scene from Josey Wales...
“How is it on stains?”