Why Deer Dog forum and not QDM?

[Gulfin]

Well, I wasn't sure who to ask but I sent two moderators this question on Tuesday morning and both responded by Wednesday morning that they couldn't answer the question but had forwarded it to someone who could. Thank you for that. Headed towards noon two days later and still have heard nothing else so I'll put it out here and see what everybody thinks about it.

Before the dog guys get fired up, I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUE WITH THE NEW FORUM!! I don't care for dog hunting personally but I'm HAPPY that you have a place to post where you can share stories/ideas/techniques related to what you love to do with like minded people. Wait, that sounds a LOT like what the QDM people were asking for. Anyway, I truly am glad for you and apologize for singling this particular section out. I am certainly not asking or suggesting the new forum be removed, that's not what this is about.

On 11/8/2011 Captwinger started a thread basically asking for a QDM sub forum. It went to 146 posts and, other than a few pot stirrers, the vast majority of those responded that they thought it was a good idea. There were some who thought otherwise that weren't there to stir the pot as well I should add. The quotes or responses below are from Admins of this site on that thread as to reasons why it wouldn't be added or other alternatives. Fair enough.

"http://www.qdmaforums.com/index.php"

"The purpose of this particular forum is to promote the discussion/debate about deer hunting and that includes all topics related to deer hunting, including but not limited to QDM."...and dog hunting???

"We refuse to "update the site" because we already have 57 forums covering everything from soup to nuts that is even remotely related to hunting and fishing. A QDM forum would not add to the content of this message board. Our experiment with the spiritual forums proves it. The additional forums merely provide more opportunities for the religious and non-religious to bash each other."

"Several have suggested this already in the thread Todd, somebody responded to that suggestion with something like............ not much posting traffic at the QDMA site."

So, I'm scrolling through the forums the other day and I notice that on or around the beginning of the year a "Deer Hunting With Dogs" section was added. Basically a month after the quote in red above and voila, a new section. Soup to nuts?

My question to anyone in charge that can answer it is probably pretty apparent at this point but I'll ask it anyway. Why is this a necessary addition and a QDM area a bad idea? I may be going out on a limb here but I have to believe there are more people that care about QDM than Dog hunting. Maybe not, but either way what is the difference?

There was a suggestion that there was already a QDMA forum, so naturally I thought there must not be any Deer Dog forums. OK, I can understand that.

http://www.gundogchat.com/
http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=54
http://sdh.proboards.com/

Darn it, 3 Deer Dog hunting forums that came up in quick search so that can't be the reason.

No sense wasting space typing on the second quote. Obvioulsy that was ignored when the discussion on the new forum came up.

"We refuse to update the site because we already have 57forums......", huh?? A month later and we have an updated site.

Last one was just a different Admin referencing the same QDM site but they obviously didn't realize the same could be said for a Deer Dog forum when the discussion came up.

Bottom line to me is that all of the reasons for not adding the QDM forum could be made for the Deer Dog forum.

Thought/comments/reasons will be appreciated. If I missed it I apologize but I've been on this site for about 3 years and I never remember anyone asking for the Deer Dog forum. Again, NICE ADDITION! I truly have no issue with it. But why that and such a resistance to a genuine, legitimate request for a forum that could provide other like minded individuals a place to share stories/ideas/techniques?

If it's just because the powers that be like to dog hunt and hate QDM that's fine, it's your site, just own it. Don't come up with excuses or other reasons that obviously apply to many different topics.

Bash/Ban (But remember I did try to ask you privately first)/Agree/Disagree....Happy day all!

 

[jblakehunter]

I completely agree with everything in this post...however I have a feeling it won't be up long before it gets deleted. You're just asking for an explanation and I think you have every right to one. Good luck as I would also enjoy a QDM sub forum

 

[doenightmare]

I have wondered why there is not a QDM forum - we got one for Atheist, Hog Doggers, Leases in GA, Leases outside GA, Outdoor Oddities, etc, etc. QDM is a much more popular topic on here and if you have 57 forums already -what's one more? I'll volunteer to mod it.

 

[Gulfin]

I completely agree with everything in this post...however I have a feeling it won't be up long before it gets deleted. You're just asking for an explanation and I think you have every right to one. Good luck as I would also enjoy a QDM sub forum

I appreciate the thoughts and I think a lot of people feel the same way but I respectfully disagree on the deleted part. I attacked no one, called nobody any derogatory names, or in any way used any foul or obscene language.

As you stated all I asked for was an explanation. Not only that but I first gave them what I feel was a sufficient amount of time to respond using private messaging. I'm confident that there is a perfectly fine reason for the logic behind their decision and I'm sure they will provide it soon enough.

Deleting this IMO would just show they don't care about what anyone thinks but themselves and show us that they don't have to answer any legitimate questions. I have a better opinion of them than that right now.

 

[Allen Waters]

I think the OP has a very well thought out post. He has a very valid question that deserves a good answer.
I think in todays day and age discussion in a QDM forum would better lend to the betterment, recruitment, and future of what we all love than a Deer dog forum.

UNDERSTAND, I have nothing against a Deer dog forum or someone who wishes to hunt this way.

BUT, if one was trying to figure which of the two subforums to add, I think I would add the QDM Forum.

Personally, I see both as fine as it gives like minded folks a place to have discussions.

I for one would offer to moderate a QDM forum here. I am sure the resistance to add one is partly due to added moderation needed.

 

[cuda67bnl]

Going out on a limb here........ What can possibly be discussed in a QDM forum that can't be discussed in the regular deer section? And yes, I know the same thing can be applied to the dog forum as well.
Why the need for seperate forums for either subject?

 

[elfiii]

I am sure the resistance to add one is partly due to added moderation needed.

That's part of it but it is a small part.

We add forums based on the desires of you the members after weighing whether or not we think the additional forum would add to the experience here.

We discuss these matters among ourselves in detail. Our decision process runs basically along these lines:

1. Is there a sufficient number of members interested in the topic to justify adding it?

2. Would the addition of the topic forum add to or detract from the overall purpose and focus of the message board?

3. Are there other sites that do a better job of handling the topic?

4. Will addition of the new topic forum create an undue burden on the staff? If so, what measures could be taken to minimize the additional burden?

After we have had that discussion we make our decision.

In the case of a QDM topic forum we came to the conclusion the QDMA message board does a much better job of addressing the topic. In addition, we agreed addition of the topic forum would create an undue burden on the staff because of the contentiousness of the topic. The many threads about QDM in the Deer Hunting forum evidence this fact. As a result, moderation of that forum would be service intensive on our part and the heated arguments would most likely cause bad blood among you the members which would be counterproductive to the goals of this message board. Adding additional Moderators to police the forum might stop some of the "public" rancor but not the "private" rancor. Accordingly, our decision was to decline the opportunity to add this topic forum at this time. We might change our minds at a later date but a "later date" is not tomorrow or next week or next month.

We understand up front we can't be all things to all people so we don't try. Regardless of what we do, there will always be members who like what we do and members who don't. It's our occupational hazard.

Since the staff are all volunteers and we are all hunters and fishermen we attempt to provide forums and content that are appealing to a wide variety of our fellow hunters and fishermen. Sometimes that means one subset gets something they want and another doesn't. That doesn't have anything to do with our personal preferences. It just is what it is. We get requests for additional topic forums all the time. Some make it, most don't. The ones that don't have nothing to do with our personal interests or desires. We do everything we can to make you guys happy but some things just turn out to be a "bridge too far" for a variety of reasons. Right now the additional topic forum requests including QDM are a "bridge too far" for us.

 

[T.P.]

I love the new dog-hunting forum!!!

 

[j_seph]

To me QDMA is it's own organization in itself.

Oh yea, I went deer dogging and loved it. First thing we were told, if you see a small basket rack and do not want to shoot it that it was fine. Maybe a QDDM (Quality Deer Dogging Management) forum

 

[Gulfin]

First, I appreciate your response. You have spoken your peace and I'm almost good with that. I am going to address a couple of your comments, welcome any comments you may have, and I'll be done with it.

"We add forums based on the desires of you the members after weighing whether or not we think the additional forum would add to the experience here."

Can you honestly say that you feel there are more people interested in dog hunting than QDM? How could a separate forum for one benefit that one group more so than the other? I know it is subjective but for the life of me I can't see how one could argue Deer Dogs over QDM with regards to number of people interested. I thought the thread I addressed in my original post more than showed support for the forum. I've never seen one for the other subject.

"We discuss these matters among ourselves in detail. Our decision process runs basically along these lines:

1. Is there a sufficient number of members interested in the topic to justify adding it?

Guess I hit on that earlier but I believe there is more than enough, certainly more than the other forum.

2. Would the addition of the topic forum add to or detract from the overall purpose and focus of the message board?

How could an educational topic not add to the overall experience, especially when dealing with such a misunderstood topic?

3. Are there other sites that do a better job of handling the topic?

What does the QDMA website accomplish above and beyond the websites I listed? Southern Dog Hunters for example has an extensive forum devoted to all sorts of dog hunting with Deer Dogs being the largest one. Just looking it over I would say they do a much better job of it. QDMA is a lot of things but can be geographically specific. No doubt the QDMA forum is valuable but this would be a more local aspect where certain topics not necessarily done the same in Illinois or Nebraska or Alberta could be discussed with people in the same area.

4. Will addition of the new topic forum create an undue burden on the staff? If so, what measures could be taken to minimize the additional burden?

While I agree the subject of QDM can be contentious, controversial, etc. there is NO way anyone can convince me that is more so than Deer Dog Hunting. I have personally been involved in deer dog threads that got extremely personal and eventually, deleted. I have looked through the threads in that section now and it seems that they are all now much more civil. Perhaps putting them in their own area helped lead to that. Now everyone doesn't have to look at it everytime they open the general deer section and having to actually seek it out allows intelligent, meaningful discussions, among people that want to learn about/teach/check into a certain idea. I know I never go on forums I have no interest in, especially to stir up trouble. Probably why it took me so long to notice that one. There have been several QDM type threads that started out with a meaningful topic and was beat down by pot stirrers, perhaps they should be the ones let go.

After we have had that discussion we make our decision.

In the case of a QDM topic forum we came to the conclusion the QDMA message board does a much better job of addressing the topic. In addition, we agreed addition of the topic forum would create an undue burden on the staff because of the contentiousness of the topic. The many threads about QDM in the Deer Hunting forum evidence this fact. As a result, moderation of that forum would be service intensive on our part and the heated arguments would most likely cause bad blood among you the members which would be counterproductive to the goals of this message board. Adding additional Moderators to police the forum might stop some of the "public" rancor but not the "private" rancor. Accordingly, our decision was to decline the opportunity to add this topic forum at this time. We might change our minds at a later date but a "later date" is not tomorrow or next week or next month.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this. Based on the aspects pointed out above nobody will ever convince me there should have been one and not the other. Thanks for the thought at least.

We understand up front we can't be all things to all people so we don't try. Regardless of what we do, there will always be members who like what we do and members who don't. It's our occupational hazard.

I run a hunting club and I certainly know what you mean and can appreciate that. I am the sole decision maker on what happens and doesn't happen and I base that on what I feel is best. I certainly take into account the thoughts of the members but you'll never make everyone happy. In my mind that still can't justify the logic here though.

Since the staff are all volunteers and we are all hunters and fishermen we attempt to provide forums and content that are appealing to a wide variety of our fellow hunters and fishermen. Sometimes that means one subset gets something they want and another doesn't. That doesn't have anything to do with our personal preferences. It just is what it is. We get requests for additional topic forums all the time. Some make it, most don't. The ones that don't have nothing to do with our personal interests or desires. We do everything we can to make you guys happy but some things just turn out to be a "bridge too far" for a variety of reasons. Right now the additional topic forum requests including QDM are a "bridge too far" for us.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for all you do. I'm sure it's a thankless job and for the most part, it is very well done IMHO. Best forum I have been a part of as a matter of fact. Best of luck in the future and I truly hope you will revisit the QDMA forum request at some point. I am sure it would be appreciated by many.

 

[elfiii]

First, I appreciate your response. You have spoken your peace and I'm almost good with that. I am going to address a couple of your comments, welcome any comments you may have, and I'll be done with it.

Guess I hit on that earlier but I believe there is more than enough, certainly more than the other forum.

Allow me to clarify. Our decisions are not based on any single criteria. We consider them all as a whole.

How could an educational topic not add to the overall experience, especially when dealing with such a misunderstood topic?

It still can, just not in its' own separate forum right now.

There have been several QDM type threads that started out with a meaningful topic and was beat down by pot stirrers, perhaps they should be the ones let go.

If we operated in this manner our membership would quickly be down to less than 1,000 members. People disagree passionately on here over a wide variety of issues. They can't even agree on which caliber is the best deer caliber. Forget which gun is the best gun. If we dismiss members because they pot stir QDM threads we have to dismiss members for potstirring everywhere. One begets the other, etc. etc. That would be a lose/lose proposition all the way around.

Also, all you members see is what stays up. You don't see what gets taken down. Only we see that. We don't talk about that on the open forums. Its' one of the ways we "make the magic" on here. Our history teaches us which topics are the most contentious so when they come up we pay particular attention to them. QDM is one of the most contentious topics in this forum, second only to baiting which the General Assembly has laid partially to rest, but still it won't die.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this. Based on the aspects pointed out above nobody will ever convince me there should have been one and not the other. Thanks for the thought at least.

Reasonable people can disagree. It happens all the time.

In my mind that still can't justify the logic here though.

That's because you aren't privy to the content of our deliberations. In order to "make the magic" on here we never "talk the magic" with the members on the open forums. No good magician reveals his tricks to his audience.

[Thanks for all you do. I'm sure it's a thankless job and for the most part, it is very well done IMHO. Best forum I have been a part of as a matter of fact. Best of luck in the future and I truly hope you will revisit the QDMA forum request in the future. I am sure it would be appreciated by many.

Thank you! For the record, I personally am a huge proponent of QDM and I practice what I preach on my own little slice of West Georgia Heaven. I wish everybody did. If they did, there would be no threads in this forum complaining about lack of deer sightings and everybody would be happy as a lark and could go back to arguing about baiting.

Perhaps in the future we might see our way to offering a QDM forum. Right now our decision is it wouldn't be prudent at this juncture.

 

[snookdoctor]

I guess a "Nekkid Twista" forum is out of the question.

 

[wilber85]

Can we have a forum for guys that shoot small bucks??

 

[Milkman]

Can we have a forum for guys that shoot small bucks??

We have had for almost 12 years now

 

[spinefish]

How about a "dead buck found" forum?

 

[T.P.]

Man, talk about kickin a QDMA'r when he's down..

I am sure it won't be long before we have a slingshot section on this forum.

 

[j_seph]

Best suggestion, start a thread in the on topic forum

 

[doenightmare]

So I ain't gettin' my Russian Cam Girl Forum??

 

[Gulfin]

So I ain't gettin' my Russian Cam Girl Forum??

OK, I'm fine with no QDM forum. I now pledge all my support for this one!!

 

[Mako22]

This site has too many forums as it is IMO.