Wolf??? Or Not!

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
I`m still waiting for anybody to answer my question in post # 124.
It just doesn't happen, because of balance of nature. If prey populations drop to low levels, the predators starve and their population also drops. They usually reach an equilibrium in a stable system. The only exceptions would be introduced predators in areas where there has never been anything like it in the past for the native animals to adapt defenses to, like the brown tree snakes killing the birds out of Guam, which had never had snakes before. That isn't the case in our area at all. There have always been predatory large canines here, many of which went extinct while the prey species kept going. Most mammalian predators also breed and exist at a much lower rate than prey species, by design. Surviving as a predator is a lot tougher job than surviving as a prey species.
The only predator that affects game animals at population level consequences in our region is two-legged, not four-legged.
 

Nicodemus

The Recluse
Staff member
It just doesn't happen, because of balance of nature. If prey populations drop to low levels, the predators starve and their population also drops. They usually reach an equilibrium in a stable system. The only exceptions would be introduced predators in areas where there has never been anything like it in the past for the native animals to adapt defenses to, like the brown tree snakes killing the birds out of Guam, which had never had snakes before. That isn't the case in our area at all. There have always been predatory large canines here, many of which went extinct while the prey species kept going. Most mammalian predators also breed and exist at a much lower rate than prey species, by design. Surviving as a predator is a lot tougher job than surviving as a prey species.
The only predator that affects game animals at population level consequences in our region is two-legged, not four-legged.


Exactly.
 

Resica

Senior Member
I wonder sometimes that with all the hate for predators and the kill em all attitudes, is it a throwback and carryover from Early Europe and the fear of wolves over there that still lies in the minds of so many today. The Indians didn`t worry about such but a pile of white folks do.

If predators, especially the canine predators are so deadly, why in the tens of thousands of years that they have had the chance, why haven`t they wiped out the prey base? Can anybody name one prey animal that has been made extinct by four legged or even winged predators?
It's not a throwback, they don't want them killing their deer and turkeys!
 

rosewood

Senior Member
We love to kill things and demonizing the predators makes a good excuse to kill them.
 

tree cutter 08

Senior Member
Here's a few from the mountians. Black one was a good 50lb and I'm satisfied the one in the trail cam pic was well over 50lb
 

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ghadarits

Senior Member
I'm not jumping into this debate because I'm not enough in the know to offer anything useful but.......... I hunt all over the southeast and have definitely noticed a deeper bass howl several times than what I would usually associate with coyotes. This is my ah ha moment for what I've been hearing. I didn't realize that the yotes had that much wolf DNA. I was lucky enough to see a Red Wolf on a barrier island near Indian pass one time. No question they are a different species than the yotes I normally see. I could tell that through my12x binos at 500 yards with no problem.
Off topic but, I've you've never seen the Milky Way Indian Pass in October is a great place to check it out.
 

JustUs4All

Slow Mod
Staff member
Can anybody name one prey animal that has been made extinct by four legged or even winged predators?
My neighbors chickens have been preyed upon to the point of extinction twice by coons. Fortunately they were not extinct everywhere else and he has been able to restore his population each time.
 

kmckinnie

BOT KILLER MODERATOR
Staff member
My neighbors chickens have been preyed upon to the point of extinction twice by coons. Fortunately they were not extinct everywhere else and he has been able to restore his population each time.
They catch a few of ours and they run free. The rest no how to take wing. I have seen him snatch one out the air. They hunt the free ones. The bobcat hunted the pen ones. He had to go. I keep the coon numbers here beat down.
 

Nicodemus

The Recluse
Staff member
They catch a few of ours and they run free. The rest no how to take wing. I have seen him snatch one out the air. They hunt the free ones. The bobcat hunted the pen ones. He had to go. I keep the coon numbers here beat down.


They`ll be reasonable safe until a pair of great horned owls take up around there.
 

groundhawg

Senior Member
It can be difficult - especially at a distance - to tell the difference between a wolf and a coyote. In general, wolves are larger and bulkier while coyotes are shorter, sleek and lighter on their feet. Whether hunting, wildlife watching, or tracking, here are some helpful tips to distinguish between a wolf and a coyote. Certain characteristics may vary with animal's age and health status, such as canine wear and fur conditions. If an animal has at least 8 out of 10 of these characteristics, there is a high likeliness that it is at least part or mostly wolf, but in some cases DNA testing may be needed to confirm its status.  Head is relatively large, with broad cheeks ~ 5.75 inches (~15 cm) across, below the eyes.  Face markings are well blended, lacking distinguishable borders.  Well furred erect ears rounded at tip ~ 4.75 inches (~12.1 cm.) long.  Light colored slanted eyes, ranging from amber to yellow.  Normal coloration is rusty brown (cinnamon) with black tipped guard hair, winter coat has thick under fur and guard hair.  Elongated snout (non-dished) with black nose and large ~ 1.0 inch (~23 mm) inward curved canine teeth.  Narrow keeled chest and hips, front feet slightly toed out, shoulder height ~ 28 inches (~73 cm).  Long legs with large ~ 3.5 inches (9.0 cm) long by ~ 2.6 inches (6.7 cm) wide front feet and smaller back feet  Ruff of fur around neck and shoulder area resembling four layer cape appearance. Chest girth ~ 24 inches (~ 60.5 cm)  Straight busy tail with black tip, black spot (precaudal gland) on top of tails base. Tail bone length ~ 17.5 inches (43.5 cm
 

Railroader

Billy’s Security Guard.
I started trappin' coyotes in the neighborhood because they got way too bold. To the point of getting in trash cans, killing pets, and even taking a half grown goat.

Between shooting them and trapping them, I think the body count is 17, from within a mile of my house, in about two years.

I might give one a pass in the huntin' woods, but I'll kill em all around the house.

This year, we raised a family of turkeys in the back yard for the first time in 14 years of living here.
 

ghadarits

Senior Member
I wonder sometimes that with all the hate for predators and the kill em all attitudes, is it a throwback and carryover from Early Europe and the fear of wolves over there that still lies in the minds of so many today. The Indians didn`t worry about such but a pile of white folks do.

If predators, especially the canine predators are so deadly, why in the tens of thousands of years that they have had the chance, why haven`t they wiped out the prey base? Can anybody name one prey animal that has been made extinct by four legged or even winged predators?
I can't name a particular instance that I've been personally involved in but it happens. It always seems to involve a non native introduced species.
 

Toliver

Senior Member
Don`t forget about the Carolina dog. Lot of folks haven`t ever heard of them.
I've heard y'all mention these in other threads but didn't give them much thought. This time we looked them up. I was expecting a wholly wild species of dog. Turns out they're recognized by AKC and apparently make good pets.
Screenshot_20231108-224340_Chrome.jpg8
 

Nicodemus

The Recluse
Staff member
I've heard y'all mention these in other threads but didn't give them much thought. This time we looked them up. I was expecting a wholly wild species of dog. Turns out they're recognized by AKC and apparently make good pets.
View attachment 12679378


They`re the old Native American dog. Near about every continent on earth has its on version of a Pariah dog. In Australia it`s the Dingo.
 

Toliver

Senior Member
It mentions them coming over the Bering land bridge with paleo Indians. I wonder if, since all dogs are decended from wolves, if they are early versions of the break out of different breeds. Sounds like a pretty interesting little dog.
 

Nicodemus

The Recluse
Staff member
It mentions them coming over the Bering land bridge with paleo Indians. I wonder if, since all dogs are decended from wolves, if they are early versions of the break out of different breeds. Sounds like a pretty interesting little dog.


They all pretty much look similar no matter where they originate. I`ve never seen one in the wild but I remember Daddy talking about seeing one in the swamp but only rarely. All the old folks over there called em Indian dogs.
 
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